Amph JJ Abrams' Star Trek Into Darkness

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ulkesh2, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    I agree that Abrams cannot possibly do a remake of Wrath of Khan without stretching plausibility (for those who actually know the story). As of the first reboot film, Khan is still in the Botany Bay and has no reason to go insane with a desire for revenge.

    Although I'm kind of bummed that the original timeline will likely never be revisited in film or television, I like that the reboot opens up a bunch of new story possibilities (EARLIER FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH THE BORG!!11!!1). At least V'Ger and the whale probe are still decades away. :p
  2. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Already had an awesome Borg movie, First Contact. That was the Wrath of Khan of the Next Generation era of movies.
    Overdoing the great villains can sometimes make them far less effective than they once were. Voyager is often criticised for having too much of the Borg and therefore lessening their impact as the big-bad. Doctor Who has had similar problems with The Daleks since the revival, they appear in every series and are becoming predictable and losing their fear factor as the main villains.
  3. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    I don't think the problem with Voyager's treatment of the Borg was that they appeared too often (only 16 episodes if you don't include Seven of Nine, of course). I also don't have a problem with the fact that there was a race (Species 8472) that could wipe the floor with them. In fact, the only major problem I can recall having was with that episode where three main characters got intentionally assimilated and rescued as though it were almost nothing.

    And really, you're complaining about the Borg appearing too often when Abrams used Darker and Edgier Romulans (with an absurdly powerful mining ship) as the main villains in the first film?
  4. RX_Sith C&G Game Host

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  5. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    They won't go with Khan- besides the Space Seed-hasn't-happened-yet issue, it'd basically be repeating the plot of the last movie (with Nero being "Spock's Khan"). I think it's safe to say they'll want to do something different- afterall, why relaunch the series as an AU if you're just going to remake the movies we've already seen? Same reason why we won't see Doomsday Machine yet (another planet-destroying threat?) or a time-travel/mirror-universe story (which would likely include timetravel-in-all-but-name stories like Nazis & Gangsters).

    Which is not to say there aren't ways to reuse plot elements from TOS and the movies- but I think you're more likely to see the Klingons/Kor/Organians, Tholians, the Gorn, Balok, Gary Mitchell, rogue starship Captains/computers or even The Changeling (as perhaps a hybrid TC/TMP revamp).

    However, I wouldn't be surprised if they used "real" Romulans this time, to tie this movie into the aftermath of the events of the first film.

    I also think there's interesting potential in some Enterprise-connections as well.

    But, for the love of Q, NO HARRY MUDD!!!
  6. solojones Chosen One

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    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    All I understand in the discussion in this thread is "blah blah blah Kahn blah blah Abrams blah blah blah Kirk blah blah blah Abrams blah blah" :p

    Let's be real: most of the people watching this film won't have a clue about any previous Star Trek stuff. That was the case with the first film, too. So all I care about is that it's as fun and well constructed as the first film.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  7. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    Well, the producers went to significant lengths to try to appease fans of the original and TNG eras. And they have readily indicated that they want to explore things within the established Trek canon.

    I liked it, but I think the major problems with the film are evident regardless of one's knowledge of Star Trek. For example, the fact that the effects guys (or whoever) scaled up the Enterprise (for the shuttle bay scenes) from a much-smaller design is glaringly obvious. And a mining vessel shouldn't be able to defeat a fleet of heavily-armed warships regardless of the time period it hailed from (only about 10 years after the TNG era, btw). And there are plot holes such as what the hell the future Romulans did in the two decades they waited around for Spock (deleted scenes explain it, but those don't count). And the movie's understanding of "black holes" is dubious even for Trek, not to mention inconsistent within the film itself. And, most of all, it's too action-packed and fast-paced and shallow and never really stops to let its characters or the audience think about... anything. Which just doesn't make for bad Trek, it makes for bad sci-fi and film in general.
  8. solojones Chosen One

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    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I didn't notice any of those technical things you're talking about nor did I care about them :p The one thing I do acknowledge is that there could have been some more time for character development. However, it felt to me that since there were so many characters they wanted to introduce, this would probably be a little difficult. There's not a lot of character development in ANH, either ;) So I guess my hope is that now that this is established, what you really want is an ESB style story where the characters are put through some real trials and we get to know them better. We'll see, though.

    But seriously, I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to the glaring things non-Trek fans would supposedly notice. Scaled up Enterprise? How am I supposed to know that? :p

    And it's not bad to add in things Trek fans will appreciate. So long as you don't constrain yourself to this slavish dedication to the continuity and whatnot. That just stifles creativity in a reboot. But I don't think anyone could accuse Abrams of that.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  9. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    You do have to pay a little bit more attention than normal, but I noticed on the first viewing even though I wasn't expecting something like that. :p Things like the windows: there are very few of them, which doesn't make sense considering that there's a giant front window on the bridge and no one seems to worry about the armor. And you can see the bridge on the exterior (the bump on the top of the saucer), which clearly doesn't scale to the interior set we see.

    [image=http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee234/Darth_Guy/monsterprise-1.jpg]
    (The original movie Enterprise is on the top left.)
  10. solojones Chosen One

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    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Even looking at those diagrams, I have no idea what you're talking about. It's extremely difficult to notice any scale changes in space anyway. I highly, highly doubt any other non-Trek fans would notice this stuff either. You're a nerd :p


    -sj loves kevin spacey
  11. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    Aug 16, 2002
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    Yes, I'm shamefully nerdy (I prefer "weirdo"). But I criticized the **** out of Inception, for example, so my noticing of things like this is not limited to my esoteric fanboy knowledge.
  12. solojones Chosen One

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    Sep 27, 2000
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    That's true. Let's chalk it up to general asshattery, shall we? ;)



    -sj loves kevin spacey
  13. Asterix_of_Gaul Force Ghost

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  14. block Force Ghost

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    Dec 10, 2004
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    I thought it was the best Star Trek movie yet, but it did have plot holes. I too wondered just what the Rumulans did for twenty years. I assumed that they had to fix the ship maybe. Or they had just spent twenty years trying to procreate "for the good of their species." It would explain why the guy questioning Pike was so pissed. Think about it, you'd be mad too if you had just spent twenty years swallowing Nero's preachy, Ian Malcolm, "life will find a way" crap, only to find out that you switched teams for nothin'. Also, they didn't seem to age from the flashbacks.

    I didn't see the deleted scenes though, so I'll have to check them out.
  15. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    Aug 16, 2002
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    Romulans are related to Vulcans, and both age at a slower rate than humans (lifespan of a couple centuries). :p


    A deleted scene shows that Nero and his crew were in a Klingon prison throughout most of the 20 years. Apparently he was captured when Daddy Kirk crippled his ship by ramming it. A non-deleted bit in the film alludes to the Romulans' escape from the prison when Uhura (I think) mentions that 40-something Klingon ships were destroyed.
  16. block Force Ghost

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    Dec 10, 2004
    star 5
    Man, I'm glad that scene got cut. Although there hasn't been a Vader interrogation scene since ESB, so that was cool. :p

    I still don't understand why the ship was that heavily armed though.
  17. Jedi_Dajuan Admin: FanForce and Games

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    It's sad, but that's what I was thinking too. Shew we get 2 in before the world ends. I can't wait for this movie, one was so awesome!
  18. soitscometothis Chosen One

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    Jul 11, 2003
    star 5
    Trek regularly has this kind of problem, though. The size of the Defiant in DS9 was never clear; they refer to it as a little ship, but it doesn't always appear that small in relation to other ships/structures. And how many decks does the Enterprise e have again? 24? 26? 29? It does seem to fluctuate.

    Yeah, those things bothered me, too. I guess you could rationalise the ship's ridiculously heavy weapons/defenses by assuming that it was designed to operate unsupported in deep space where it might have to defend itself against pirates after its mined cargo, but it's a bit of a stretch.

    Well, it's fun and unpretentious. It doesn't feel quite like any of the other Trek films, so I find it difficult to compare it to them: I don't think it's as good as ST2:WoK, but more enjoyable than most.
  19. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    ... that took a little trip. :p

    And I like my pretentious Trek, dammit! It makes me as a fan feel special.
  20. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Also worth noting that the Klingon prison Nero is taken to is supposed to be the same one Kirk was sent to in ST6. They did a comic series called Nero that elaborated on his stay in the prison as well as his escape (tying it into V'Ger in the process).

    If you count the Countdown comic series (which, while probably not technically canon, is written by the writers of the movie so it has some bearing on the subject), they show that the Narada was armed and upgraded by survivors of the Romulan military with reverse-engineered Borg technology, to explain it's strength.

    It certainly needs to be a fun film, but the people making the movie want to do new things (however use recognizable elements)- and the people watching the movie won't want the sequel to duplicate plot elements from the original, so that does narrow down the options as I listed.


    It's only really noticeable in the shuttlebay sequence, since you have the size of the shuttle to use as reference.

    But, if that diagram is confusing you, it's basically going over possible sizes of the ship in the movie, listing the pros and cons of each possibility, with the original movie Enterprise and TNG Enterprise included as a point of reference.

    The ship was designed to be scaled with the original Enterprise using the shuttle bay as it's point of reference. In other words, the shuttle bays are the same size, and the new Enterprise is slightly bigger/longer as a result.

    However, that doesn't match the size of the shuttlebay scene shown in the movie, because the final CGI model was upscaled to make the ship feel more massive.

    The problem then is, if you scale the ship up to make the shuttlebay scene physically possible, they're taking windows, hatches, decks and other details that were designed and scaled for a smaller ship, and making them twice as big as they should be, which doesn't match up with the interior design of the sets (there's no giant hallways or massive windows, etc).

    Not to mention it makes the original Enterprise as big, or slightly bigger, than the ship's successor built a century later, with no real reason why it would dwarf the other starfleet ships of it's era all of a sudden (if you consider that the "original size" represented the top of the line ship capable of being built at that time).
  21. IellaAntilles Jedi Knight

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    Jul 28, 2000
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    Ah heck..I just want to know if Pine or Quinto is going to be shirtless in the movie. [face_praying]
  22. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    I don't count it because the "Borg technology" thing is stupid. :p
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    But the V'Ger connection resulting from it was kinda cool, so it breaks even! ;)
  24. RX_Sith C&G Game Host

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  25. Worf_son_of_Mogh Jedi Padawan

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