Amph JJ Abrams' Star Trek Into Darkness

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ulkesh2, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    I don't disagree with you at all. Actually, that might be the origin-story for scanners on our world...
  2. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    I must have missed spotting the sharks we appear to have recently jumped.
  3. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    One could make the argument that Trek jumped the shark long ago.

    OH SNAP
  4. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Borg would be interesting in terms of what they would be like that early on, but I doubt the Federation of that time would have any hope of defeating them let alone even seeing them given how far away they would be.
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, May 28, 2013
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  5. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9


    Is this in response to my saying he's Spanish? Well, that was in reference to race and ethnicity. He was Mexican in terms of his nationality, but his parents were from Spain. I just wanted to point out that he was white, and not remotely a mixed race hispanic with native Mexican blood (as most people in Mexico have by now, though some families are a bit more Spaniard than others and consequently would consider themselves white. I have a hispanic friend from Mexico who considers herself a white hispanic).
    Last edited by solojones, May 28, 2013
  6. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    My Mexican-American friend was to receive some kind of Hispanic-centric award... until he showed up to receive it and the awards people saw he was (is) tall, blue-eyed and sandy-haired with fair skin. They stalled on the award and he wound up never receiving it.

    [face_thinking]
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Transwarp beaming.

    Blame Admiral Marcus.

    Wait, that was Screamers. My bad.
  8. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I just know you wiki'd that. :p
  9. laurethiel1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2003
    star 4
    The only dignified response to this inane shuffling is that: :oops:. Really, where's the button "don't like" when you need it...

    Cheers,
    Lauré :)
  10. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Hey, it's just a sidebar anecdote. My apologies.
  11. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    But... the Borg arrived in Federation space as a direct result of Q Who? one year later after a direct encounter with the Enterprise aas orchestrated by Q. Otherwise, they wouldn't have gone. So just substitute "received energy signature from Narada" and voila! Handwave!
  12. Juliet316 Streak for Colors Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Yeah, it couldn't have been a coincidence that Abrams had the Narada made from Borg parts and not follow up on it later.
  13. GenAntilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2007
    star 4
    I thought the Enterprise show had an encounter with the Borg trapped by the time travel in First Contact revive and contact the Borg who then began making their way towards Federation space? I think Archer even says it'll be something the 24th century has to deal with.

    With the Narada having their tech as well I could see that drastically speeding up their journey to Federation space.
  14. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    That may have been a retcon, or not, but it was I believe originally confirmed that Q Who? and the Borg downloading the Federation databanks made them head that way. Whether you believe in the Shatner-quasi-penned novels or not in the Borg's involvement with V'ger and sending it home -- and then finding out THESE were The Creator -- is up to you though I take a... dim view on that.
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    The Nero comics did tie V'Ger into the Narada/Borg- though I'm not sure if that has the same canon standing as Countdown.
  16. Souderwan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2005
    star 6
    It was. I wouldn't consider Spanish a race any more than I'd consider Mexican a race. So when you were calling him Spanish, I assumed you were referring to his nationality. His nationality has no real bearing on his race. There are plenty of black Spaniards, white Mexicans, and brown-skinned Europeans, and biracial Jamaicans. :p

    That said, thanks for the clarification. :p
    Darth_Invidious likes this.
  17. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Half-diverse jamaicans*
    Souderwan likes this.
  18. Souderwan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2005
    star 6
  19. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Jerk me some more chicken, mon... <3
    Souderwan likes this.
  20. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Relevant to race/nationality/casting discussion (POSSIBLE SWEARS AND NAUGHTY WORDS WARNING):


    If you have strong feelings about casting a white guy to fill a role previously occupied by a white guy who was cast to play a genetically engineered superman with an Indian sounding name, then you should probably go for a walk or something.
  21. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Augments produced by the [20th-century genetic engineering] program possessed physical strength and analytical capabilities considerably superior to ordinary Humans, and were created from a variety of Earth's ethnic groups.

    The surname "Singh" suggests northern Indian ancestry (from the Sanskrit simha, "lion") and possibly roots in Sikhism (male Sikhs are obliged to assume the surname "Singh", regardless of their geographical or familial origins); while "Khan" ("ruler") is a name of central Asian origin generally associated with Islam. -- http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Khan_Noonien_Singh

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sikh migration beginning from the 19th century led to the creation of significant communities in Canada (predominantly in Brampton, along with British Columbia), East Africa, the Middle East, Southeast Asia, the United Kingdom as well as United States and Australia. These communities developed as Sikhs migrated out of Punjab to fill in gaps in imperial labour markets.[51] In the early twentieth century a significant community began to take shape on the west coast of the United States. Smaller populations of Sikhs are found in within many countries in Western Europe, Mauritius, Malaysia, Fiji, Nepal, China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Singapore, Mexico, the United States and many other countries. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism#Sikh_people

    In short, Khan's ethnicity is far from certain.
  22. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    1. Sikhs migrating to Western countries doesn't magically turn them white.

    2. Other (non-white) ethnicities have the name "Singh," but all baptized male Sikhs have it.

    3. How many white converts to Sikhism do you know of?

    And this is by far the most important:

    4. Souderwan's point was not that Khan must be of northern Indian origin, but that the producers absolutely had an opportunity, based on the name and the ethnic origin that suggests, to cast a non-white person in the role.

    EDIT after "likes": Oh, and genetic engineering could have made him appear white, but why the hell would anyone do that? He clearly wasn't engineered by people who didn't know what they were doing, otherwise he would not only be white but a Spanish Habsburgian freak. And he clearly wasn't engineered by white supremacists, otherwise they wouldn't have started with an Indian in the first place and they wouldn't be working with a diverse array of ethnicities. I don't like reaching for an in-universe explanation that the movie doesn't even offer when the out-of-universe explanation is sufficient (see: they cast a white guy regardless).
    Last edited by Darth Guy, May 29, 2013
    Souderwan and Adam of Nuchtern like this.
  23. Souderwan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2005
    star 6
    And to think I was worried that despite all the words typed, my point had somehow been missed. Thank you.
  24. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    1. That's a lovely straw man you've constructed, but of course I never contended any such thing. If this is going to be the level of debate I can expect from you, we might as well end this exchange before you further expose your irrational methods of argumentation.

    Sikhism has witnessed a moderate growth in non-Indian adherents.
    It was estimated that in 1998, these 3HO Sikhs, known colloquially as “gora” or “white” Sikhs, totalled 7,800 members, and were mainly centered around Española, New Mexico and Los Angeles, California.
    Historically, the phenomenon of conversion of whites to Sikhism is centuries old. Max Arthur Macauliffe (1841-1913), a senior British administrator who was posted to India during the British rule of Punjab, converted to Sikhism in the 1860s.
    In more recent times, earlier examples of conversion includes Vic Briggs, a 64-year-old London resident and former blues musician (The Animals). He converted and took the name Vikram Singh Khalsa.
    Dr. Lonnie Smith, a 67-year-old New York resident, is a jazz musician, recognized as an exceptional player of both the Hammond B3 organ and piano, also converted to Sikhism but did not change his name.
    Gurusewak Singh Khalsa, who was born to parents of American/European descent....
    Amrit Kaur does not look like a Punjabi in any way, but practices Sikhism. Born in Toronto, Canada....
    Dana Singh, who calls herself "gora (white) Sikh" and is dedicated to the cause of Sikhism. Born in Latvia (former USSR), she met her Sikh husband in Ireland, and he introduced her to his culture and religion.

    2. Yes, including the caucasoid adherents of sikhism named and described above.

    3. See #1. How many can you count?

    4. Right. And this is a problem because...?
    V-2 likes this.
  25. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    7,800 (probably a little more in 2013) out of over 25 million. I never said that it was impossible for a Sikh to be white, but even your rebuttal paints it as very unlikely.