Amph JJ Abrams' Star Trek Into Darkness

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ulkesh2, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. Kiki-Gonn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 6
    I am so mad I missed an entire TPM discussion that snuck into the JCC.

    Damn you people, just change the name of the thread to, "Fighting the battles of a decade ago. RE: TPM."

    Nobody cares about this ST movie anyway, it was serviceable at best.
    Last edited by Kiki-Gonn, Aug 23, 2013
  2. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Simon Pegg is awesome, and the fact that PT gushers are so butt-hurt over his bashings (I like the PT very much but still) is awesome.
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  3. Kiki-Gonn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 6
    Eh, I don't know that it's awesome to cuss out someone who asks a legitimate question on a forum you participate in.
    I dislike but have never complained once about his PT opinions. His response above makes me think less of him.
    Sarge likes this.
  4. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Meh I don't think he was being serious, and he probably doesn't know any of these people on a personal basis. He's not going to walk up to you in the middle of the street and call you a **** for liking the PT, so I wouldn't really worry about it.
  5. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Honestly I would be sorely crestfallen if I met him on the street and he didn't live up to the hype.
  6. Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
  7. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9

    It's interesting though, because (and I haven't checked TDB in years) -- Paramount has a DVD MASTERING problem. He covers a blu-ray problem and a Star Trek problem... but Paramount DVDs (and Blu-Rays) are consistently the worst for audio mixing that I own.

    The sound effects (and potentially music) are mixed much too high relative to the vocals of the dialogue. Such that I am having to ping pong my audio settings during the watching of movies. Maybe it's just remastering old ones (Top Gun is fairly egregious) but new ones like Transformers also are terrible this way. And it's always Paramount.
  8. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    1. The hissing sound the poison gas makes, is what tipped the Jedi off that they were to be eliminated. And this was after blowing up their transport first.

    2. There's a reason General Grievous was the supreme commander of the Droid Army, under Darth Tyrannus. Nute Gunray was not a military strategist. He was nothing more than corporate stooge who was being manipulated by Sidious. Not to mention there are other cities on Naboo that needed to be taken.

    3. Lucas long ago said that the PT wouldn't have nearly as much action, because it was more political than a simple good versus evil battle. Besides, Lucas cut most of that out of the film.

    He wasn't going to force her to do so at gunpoint, which wouldn't have matter as it was Sabe, that he was talking to and not Padme. The switch had already occurred when we see Sabe in the black outfit. Nute's plan was to force her hand, by making the people suffer through threats of starvation and dehydration.

    Worse, Spock shouldn't even be that emotional regardless of Kirk's death. Even with the half human origin, Spock had better control of his emotional and mental facilities than that.
  9. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    It was just jarring, for me, because Spock was barely demonstrative about his mother's death and the destruction of his entire planet in the 2009 movie (until Kirk goaded him), but as soon as Jim dies, Spock starts screaming and goes and beats the tar out of Khan -- to the point that he almost kills him. It just didn't ring true at all to me that he would do that, even taking into account that Abrams' Spock isn't exactly the same as the original series' Spock.

    I would have preferred a suppressed rage, with Spock gradually losing control as he fights Khan, if they had to include an emotional scene, which would have at least been more like the 2009 film.

    Also, Benedict Cumberbatch's Khan is nothing like the original character. Don't get me wrong-- Cumberbatch is a great actor -- but why didn't they just introduce him as a brand new character rather than Khan himself? Heck, just make him another member of Khan's crew or something.
    Sarge likes this.
  10. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Yes, but why? In either case, it's an agreement made under coercion. Neither one would be legally valid, if you're applying actual criteria, and the Trade Federation would deny such allegations in both cases. So why would it particularly matter? Why wouldn't he just make her sign at literal gun point?
  11. Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4

    Because the script was written by morons.
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  12. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    See that's the thing that kills me -- they aren't morons. They're perfectly capable of putting together a decent script. Kirk's character arc wasn't half bad (although they fudged it up in the end...). But I find it frustrating because the darn film was crammed to the gills with every pop culture reference to Star Trek it could possibly fit (regardless of whether it was appropriate or not) while at the same time not taking a single bloody risk.

    It wouldn't be so frustrating if I didn't know that the team who put Into Darkness are better than this, but I do. They've got all the pieces to a great film available to them, but they're still playing in the same sandbox. Ironically for Star Trek, there's absolutely zero sense of exploration in this film.
    Sarge likes this.
  13. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Spock only ever lost control when it came to something such as Pon Faar, or someone/something messing with his emotions. The only time he expressed any emotion beyond that, was relief that he hadn't killed Kirk, which as a slip on his part.


    Marketing. That's the only reason. The fact is that "Wrath Of Khan" is the most popular of the films and both Paramount and Bad Robot wanted to reuse him.

    Because Padme would rather die, than sign a treaty authorizing the invasion. But if you put the lives of others in danger, then there's the possibility of her folding. It's like with Leia in ANH. She would rather die than give up the location of the Rebel base, but threaten to blow up Alderaan and she'd cave. Which she did, only she lied about which base.
  14. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Do you know how we know Leia was like that? Because there was an actual scene where it happened. Whereas, in TPM, the issue was never explored at all, and Gunray just sort of nonchalantly sent her to jail.
  15. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9

    BIBBLE : ...how will you explain this invasion to the Senate?
    NUTE : The Naboo and the Federation will forge a treaty that will legitimize
    our occupation here. I've been assured it will be ratified by the Senate.
    AMIDALA : I will not co-operate.
    NUTE : Now, now, your Highness. You are not going to like what we have in
    store for your people. In time, their suffering will persuade you to see our
    point of view. Commander. (OOM-9 steps forward) Process them.

    I mean, it's there -- not quite in the same realm as showing Leia being about to be tortured then Vader saying she hadn't broken -- and well more in the tell, not show realm. But they at least make an effort to explain it...
  16. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9

    You know what? I'm coming to a realization -- maybe it's not Orci or Lindelof individually. Maybe it's not even Bob's fault overall.

    I'm checking -- always a good idea to reeducate yourself -- and maybe it's when he's not allowed independence that he's not able to deliver. Star Trek on its own wasn't horribly egregious (timeline issues aside). Transformers on its own was pretty good, I thought.

    But the sequels -- where he was saddled with Lindelof or Kruger... they blew. Hard. Badly.

    Maybe it's also just a matter of being able to take something and turn it into an "okay" modern adaptation and not being good at the continuation, I don't know...
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Of course it's there. RLM-style claims always fall apart upon inspection, or in other words, when exposed to reality. Prequel haters don't watch the prequels, so they don't actually know what they're talking about. They're just good at playing follow the leader.
  18. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    He never even tries to force the issue, though. He doesn't even gesture menacingly at her, or make a verbal threat. He just blandly assumes that her opposition is completely immovable, and the only way to address to the issue is through an incredibly circuitous campaign of deprivation based on slowly diminishing flows of goods/services. Which, as I recall, is exactly the same claim I started out making.

    Oh yeah, it is. The truth is we have no idea how she would respond to personal pressure, since it literally never comes up at all.
  19. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    Me and Orci got into on Twitter about nobody knowing who KHAN was in the movie. He's a historical figure who ruled a good part of the Earth, but not a single person seems to reconize him, or even if they can't tell by looking, decided to look him up in the historical archives. Which I assume they could have done on the Enterprise, JUST LIKE THEY $#@&ing DID IN "SPACE SEED." Old timeline Kirk was atleast smart enough to look this guy up to see who he actually was. But no, in this timeline Spock has to call Old Spock to get any info.

    I guess no history class in this new future.

    I really hate Orci. If it's not some goofy defense of his fun, but stupid movie, it's some conspiracy BS.
    Last edited by DarthMane2, Aug 31, 2013
    Sarge likes this.
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    1. Khan's appearance has been altered. Even without that, nobody recognizing him on sight wouldn't have been a problem, BECAUSE NO ONE $#@&ing RECOGNIZED HIM ON SIGHT IN "SPACE SEED".

    2. Looking him up is a little tricky when all you have is a first name. By the time anyone gets his full name he's already been identified as a dangerous adversary.

    And also because it isn't a Robert De Niro film. But can this be explained to someone who can't follow a bet?

    It's important to look back at the specifics of what was said about this film in 1999. A lot of hate for Jar Jar and little kids, and a telling absence of "movie not comprehensible" complaints - probably because those imaginary issues had yet to be invented by desperate trolls over a decade after the fact.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 1, 2013
  21. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    All they had was his first name in space seed. It wasn't until Kirk looked him up in the computer that they learn his full name. Also, where in the movie did they say his appearance had been altered? I missed that.
  22. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Uh... is there anything that specified Khan's appearance has been altered? Don't recall them saying so in the film.

    As well, in Space Seed I believe Spock identified him in the ship's databanks with only the name "Khan" as well.

    EDIT: Dammit, ninja'd! lol
    Last edited by dp4m, Sep 1, 2013
  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    He went from a guy who Marla McGivers assumed was Indian simply by looking at him to Benedict Cumberbatch.
    ( But for those who don't believe their lying eyes, or think of "Singh" as a credible surname for a pasty white British guy, there's a comic book. )
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 1, 2013
  24. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    No, no I need a scene from be movie. Where is it?
  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    [IMG]

    "a guy who Marla McGivers assumed was Indian simply by looking at him" refers to a scene from be episode, not be movie. Be episode and be movie be in the same continuity.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Sep 1, 2013