Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by Kuestmaster, Jan 24, 2013.
I realized that as soon as I typed it! Touché!
i hope jj dives into more of the culture of both jedi and sith show the worlds where they originated from and give it that sense like this is a place where only that particular group came from. i think that would be great when it comes to how he wants to have it feel more real.
As mentioned, these videos are for comedy and not to be confused with a legitimate critique.
Any word on Yuma? Any forum members from there?
Just saw this posted on facebook.
I don't agree totally with the rule #1 but the other ones, spot on.
I don't agree with most of the "rules", but still thought it was funny.
I don't agree with anything in this video, but it's well made. (The music reminds of Avatar, but whatev.) The points they listed are only part of what Star Wars is to me, and it's different for a lot of people.
So Star Wars is a kaleidoscope of many things and elements, but my specific reactions to this video:
1. Yes, the prequels were visually grandiose, but I think this grandeur symbolized the hubris and arrogance of the Republic. The Republic was about to collapse under its own weight. To witness and understand the fall of the Republic, I think we needed to see Coruscant and the broken Senate, the culturally advanced Naboo and generally the Galaxy pre-Empire.
2. The Original Trilogy followed the rebels, that's why we went to "the frontier" as the video says. But even then it's not true, I'm not sure we can qualify Tatooine or Hoth or Endor as "frontier". Tatooine is just a backwater planet, the equivalent of an underpopulated, drowsy town in the middle of nowhere, not a frontier town.
And Hoth is just plain nowhere.
(Also the Death Star or Bespin had no smugglers or bounty hunters, so even the OT greatly deviated from this frontier thing.)
3. Used space: sure, I love it! I loved it in Alien too, but not everything should be the same. I think the pristine environments in the prequels added to the variety and believability of the Star Wars universe, and it also helped emphasize the cultural bankruptcy of the Empire.
Tatooine was a backwater planet, and the rebels had to use whatever they had, hence "the future is old" in the OT, but it was nice to see a more cultured galactic society before the uniformity of the Empire. (It's the Weimar Republic before the Third Reich.) Also: Bespin. Even the OT deviates.
4. I sort of agree with this, but I also think that people should get over the midi-chlorians. I mean it's been 14 years already! Not to mention that it is strongly implied in Return that genetics has something to do with the Force. Leia was strong in the Force, because she was a Skywalker.
5. Okay, so should we discard Return of the Jedi from Star Wars too? I'm not sure I want to do that...
But, like I said, the video was well made, so congrats on that part!
Agree with some of it, and think it's well made - but they bang on about the frontier too much and forget that Yoda and Artoo had moments of cuteness too (not to mention the Ewoks).
I think it's more a pitch to get the company out there and show what they can do - basically free advertising.
I think I personally would have wished they had reversed the rule order. Since to me personally rules 3 & 4 there should almost be law but rules 1 & 2 should be more like guidelines, when there isnt a clear reason to break rules 1 & 2 don't but if there is reason too please do so.
With rule 1 (as they listed) they stated Star Wars is a western, but there has been plenty of good westerns set in cities for instance, but genre wise they do tend to be more on the outskirts of civilization (though often contrast is needed to emphize this). The city is a perfectly legit location, but the tone of every location should have clear cut good vs bad themes if populated with characters blasting like its a western in them. So guide line, not rule... or law
With rule 2 they stated Star Wars is dirty, and personally I do in general agree... but elegance often has its place too. Maybe to show a villain placing themselves above others, maybe to hide freedom fighters among the priviliaged before hitting them, maybe just to show a planets society is skin deep (aka the hubris of the old republics final days). Etc... again I feel it should be a guide line, when in doubt make it dirty... but even the OT had elegance just look at the A-wing or Vader's TIE Advanced x1 or the bloody lightsaber.
With rule 3, yes, just yes, I fully agree here. The force should always remain a mystery... though I approve of the KotOR II/Darth Plageous approach too of just making it grander and more complicated than we can fathom, aka attempts at explanation are really just character points of view and show casing the characters beliefs
Rule 4 that Star Wars isn't cute, I feel should be law... but more in the tone of the movie/episode/book/comic than the looks/design department. Simply put, if you have cute Ewoks some of them will have to die in a very touching moment like they did in RotJ where Ewok A tries to wake Ewok B only to realize its not meant to be (I'd personally perfer even more than that but you get the idea). The cost of war can varry in its death toll, the Clone Wars had some great deaths but kept it minimal due to being a kids show for instance Aka keep the WAR in Star Wars. So avoid Gungans being there and just getting captured for the most part at the end of the fight and Jar Jar the clumsy fool not unintentionally destroying a tank to appease 6 year olds, instead have Padme deal with most of them being wipped out and her dealing with almost sacrificing a species over a trade dispute which only she and a few privilaged others know was really a power grad by a resurrgeant Sith then using that pain she's suffering to bond with Anakin as he comes to realize the Jedi are more monks than those who'd venture out to free all the slaves of the Galaxy. Marketing to kids is fine here and there (hey, toy sales, I get and accept it... and will probably buy a few myself too) but keep it real in terms of the cost of War. I truly agreed with the cost of part of that rule, the rest I felt was just trying to bring in several complaints under one roof.
I think ROTS is the only Star Wars film to show dead kids and immolation. That's pretty grim. ROTS is the least kid friendly episode of the lot I think.
I agree that ROTS has the darkest elements but not in that it's the darkest film in the series. ROTS has severe tone issues, overlaying an obvious and expected dark second act within the movie, but the prequel trilogy didn't particularly handle the tone elegantly enough (in the spirit of Star Wars) to make this film tonally unique making it "the darkest Star Wars film". In other words, yes it has the darkest elements, but no it's not the darkest film. At least not for me.
I think ROTS is by far the darkest movie in terms of cinematography, thematic darkness and in terms of conveying a tangible unease throughout. I assume you think the 'darkest' is TESB... but I wouldn't agree. I think TESB is the better film; but I think the menace and doom in ROTS is far more tangible (cumulating in the destruction of democracy and Anakin's journey to Hell).
We agree ROTS has the darkest elements, just not that it's the darkest movie. For me, ROTS is all over the place making it a mess in tone. Besides at this point in the saga, I'm not particularly invested in Anakin or Padme, I really don't care for them as characters as they feel totally detached from reality. So in the end I don't feel ROTS is dark or light or anything, just a bunch of stuff thrown together.
That's a bit of an odd train of thought... that's reads like a textbook case of "if I don't see the tree fall in the forest, it does not make a sound".
Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru disagree. That scared the day lights out of me at age 4... my little sister wasn't too scared of Anakin killing the younglings though... might have something to do with that horrible name, younglings... so random and impersonal that lessons the impact a bit of them dying by Anakin hand.
Though I admit Anakin burning did upset my little sister... (~15 years younger than I) but like me the skeletons of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru scared her more.
Point is grim is a point of view, you have visually grim, conceptually grim, and emotionally grim. Not to mention Ganger's other points already mentioned about III just being a mess that its tone wasn't nearly as grim as any individual event. However my point isn't prequal bashing, its in Episode 1 they went way too "cute" with Jar Jar and everything he did was practically immune to not helping the cast or harming an ally... unlike episode III with the younglings or VI with Ewoks where they did die
Hopefully J.J. will film Episode VII as a Holocaust documentary.
No cuteness allowed in a series where one of the iconic characters communicates through babyish warbles and toot-toots! To say nothing of squeaky mouse droids, bumbling hooded gnomes that sell robots, a fuzzy ape-man who supposedly tears peoples' arms off but in reality gives the main characters big ol' hugs, a piano playing blue elephant that looks like something from Nick Jr., and a group of teddy bears that defeat the Dark Empire.
guys lets just wait and see because this was the same reaction when disney bought marvel and look how good there doing.
Except Marvel already had their movies planned and in production.
If thinking that a satisfying movie is more than just the mere sum of "things that happen", then I'm a really odd thinker, and proud to be one.
Hopefully Abrams recognizes that the Muppet side of Star Wars has been there since 1977. Judging by Keenser, an absolutely hilariously fake alien, he seems to have some sense of whimsy.
Star Wars without it's whimsical moments is dead.
No it's not that, it's your seemingly dogmatic approach to conversation and the entrenched opinions you espouse. It's the "I don't like it so I'm only going to engage in trashing it" frame of mind that I find fecking weird.
Why is it even important which movie is darker? Darkness has nothing to do with quality.