ST JJ Abrams to direct Episode VII

Possibly, though I'd argue that the neither the ESB or ROTJ duels were "slow." Plenty of fast action there. For me, I just wants the fights to feel organic and spontaneous, rather than choreographed and over-rehearsed. I don't mind "fancy" so long as the fancy feels like something the characters would do as opposed to something the actors were told to do.

 

Right. This was just a generalization. But based on what I've seen in the trailers so far, there really does seem to be a blend of OT and PT lightsaber style. Kylo is twirling his saber around, and deflecting blaster bolts, like a Jedi pro from the prequels (though somehow, his saber still looks a lot heavier). While Boyega is hacking and slashing much like Luke and Vader were in ESB and ROTJ. Which makes sense, given the gap between their skill levels. But yeah. Nothing feels "fancy" this time around.

 

You can get a feel for the fighting design in the teasers. Look at how Finn uses the saber on the stormtrooper. Long slow swings much like the OT. That doesn't mean good choreography won't be happening it just means the fighting style will be less over the top and more sword fighting in style.

 

Sure. But Kylo seems a lot freer than his OT counterparts when wielding his crosssaber. For example, he's often doing so with one hand, spinning the blade with ease, and deflecting blaster bolts like a seasoned Jedi. That's certainly a departure from OT styles.

 

Didn't you guys see John Boyega's instagram where was playing with a lightsaber toy? Those weren't ANH moves, and it was clearly some routine he'd practiced...

 

Okay, so as for this whole lightsaber hoopla, I just want to say something about the original trilogy duels vs. the prequel duels. Lucas' comment pertaining to "It's a cyborg fighting an old man or an inexperienced kid but the prequels were them in their prime" doesn't strikes me as particularly honest. Count Dooku is older than Obi-Wan is in A New Hope. Palpatine is rather old. Even Mace Windu and Qui-Gon aren't spring chickens, and they had no issues. The only reason why the prequel fights were done the way they were is because they could be, and that's pretty much all there is to it. Whether you like them or dislike them is completely up to personal preference.

Now, as for the OT fights (particularly the duel in ANH) being "terrible" or "awful" or whatever, I would implore everyone to look at them in context. Just watch the original Obi-Wan vs Vader duel in complete isolation, without any retroactively conceived notions of what a lightsaber fight could be. The duel looks like an actual sword fight between two actual people who look like they're actually trying to kill each other. There's no flashiness, no standing backflips; just offense and defense. Each combatant, with each move, is either trying to kill the other or block a killing blow. Obi-Wan, the figure of calm stoicism we've come to know throughout the film, looks scared. He looks like he's barely keeping up. When Vader lunges at him and slashes a burning gash through the wall, Obi-Wan practically stumbles out of the way at the last second. Further, we genuinely care about whether or not Obi-Wan makes it out of the duel alive, and as it progresses the sneaking suspicion that he won't begins to sink in. Those facets are where the intensity of the duel comes from, not from speed or flashiness. I completely get where Abrams is coming from in regards to his comments. These things don't need to look like they're out of anime or video games or martial arts films to work.

 

Excellent post


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This post sums it all. When I first saw Star Wars, I was seven and the duel was terrifying. There was a real sense of danger. RoTS final duel was fun, but maybe it shouldn't be.

 

Great post and I agree.
Further, back then Lucas had the idea that the lightsabers were "Heavy" and you had to use two hands to hold them and fight.

Also, the character work and dramatic build up to the Obi-Wan/Vader fight was excellent.
We had gotten to know both characters, we know a little of Vader's backstory, that he used to be a Jedi and Obi-Wan's pupil. And we had seen how powerful and ruthless Vader had been so there is a legit concern that Obi-Wan is going to face a very deadly threat.

When they filmed it, you had all sorts of practical problems, the sticks broke all the time. David was a bit encumbered by his armor and wasn't a highly skilled fighter etc.
But the fight really works. To me and the people at the time in 1977-78, it was great.

To contrast, the PT fights are mostly very well made from a technical stand point. The Mace and co vs Palpatine is not all that good however.
But to me, the character work, build up and dramatic impact was not always as good.
The TPM fight, yes technically very well made but I found Maul to be uninteresting as a character and he had no connection to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. So the fight lacks character drama for the most part. It gets interesting after Maul kills Qui-Gon because now Obi-Wan has a personal stake in this.

Also, this a more general comment, fight choreography in newer films can sometimes become too overdone to the point where the characters look like they are dancing. Some of the fights in the Matrix sequels made that error to me.

In closing, well made fights are much like effects to me. A great story can survive dodgy effects but great effects won't save a dodgy story. In a fight, what matters most to me is the character work, the dramatic buildup and the story. If that is there then the fight can survive less than great choreography.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

It also looks like Kylo is doing a combi deflection and force push too... which is quite PT'ish.

 

Well Luke also deflected laser blasts too. That's nothing new. I think they know that they can't completely go back to the old design as it'd feel weird coming from seeing the prequels. I just think the saber fighting styles will probably be more in line with the OT.

 

Right. I'm not sure why anyone would deny this difference from the OT, to be honest. We're clearly going to get something different. And to me, it looks like a blending of OT and PT styles. The fighting feels heavy and consequential, as in the OT, but it'll be a lot more physically dynamic and fluid, as in the PT.

I've heard it described as Game of Thrones style, with a touch of PT flair.

 

To be honest I think that's more to do with a combination of Lucas retrospectively justifying the aesthetic difference between the two... and defending what were, by the late 80's/90's, fight sequences that seemed to be regarded as a bit passé. I think the duel sequence in ANH is clearly the least dynamic choreography, but I agree with you that within context, it's fitting.

 

It also has a sense of weight to it (the Finn vs. Stormtrooper fight). Kylo's style does seem more fluid than in the OT, which might come down to how he was trained. Finn, on the other hand, looks kind of basic and a bit clumsy, which may come down to inexperience. What I'm really interested to see is how Rey uses a lightsaber (because I do expect her to at some point).

 

To be honest I kind of found Dooku and Sheev's fights to be rather awkward as well. Especially Sheev's.

 

Some of that is because of the actual weight of the swords when they're carrying them. They were much lighter in the prequels, so they could be swung quite fast without much effort in one hand. When filming The Force Awakens, they used custom Force FX sabers, which are closer in weight to the originals.

 

Yes. I remember an interview with Boyega where he stated the saber was "quite heavy".

JJ knows what he's doing, guys. That much is clear from what we've seen

 

FTFY

 

See? Lucas was consulted for TFA.

 

Just a reminder, JJ will be on Fallon tomorrow night.

Actually, a member of the cast/crew will be on Fallon every night this week except Friday. Ford on Tues, Driver on Wed, Daisy on Thurs.

Or just check the TV appearances thread which will be updated regularly.

 

Science and exploration weren't really the centerpiece of Trek on TV either, at least not TOS. For the most part it was a series of high-stakes morality tales, with a smidge of character continuity on the side. If they could fit some creative world-building in there too, bonus. But, actual science? Meaningful exploration? Not often, and not nearly as high a priority as the show's fans wish to believe &/or remember.

 

Nailed it.

 

I love the look on Finn's face just before Kylo strikes.

 

I've been wondering whether Kylo immediately sheds his helmet and hood and then engages Finn in combat, or whether this is a bit later on into the fight.

 

If that is the lightsaber of Anakin, I can see Kylo ripping his mask off in an almost orgasmic rage. Being so close to something so precious to him.