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Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource' started by DarthXan318, May 10, 2010.

Moderators: Penguinator, Ramza
  1. Mitth_Fisto Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 6
    Yup, that's what it exactly;)

    Now for a slightly off base question, did anyone else have a specific song they associated with their 'Child of ...' or wanted to use with a post of their character? I added mine to his fate above, but I was curious if anyone else had done that sort of thing.
  2. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    Darn tootin'. Like I mentioned in my own post, I was definitely planning on using Curtains by Elton John for right after Vic sold out Sara, and then it really was going to depend on which direction I went in. Final post plans were going to depend on where, exactly, Vic ended up - dead or committing suicide? Another Brick in the Wall Part 3 and Goodbye Cruel World by Pink Floyd. Alive at the cost of everything he had, but with his soul saved in the process? Escape by Alice Cooper. Alive, criminal empire intact, soul in tatters? Day of Wrath by Bathory. Alive, wealth intact, and redeemed? ... Okay, that wasn't going to happen. I'm a cruel person with bleak views on human nature, dammit! The middle option was also low probability, because... I dunno, I find redemption boring. Probably why I like Greek tragedies.

    Other than that, I was going to do what I had been doing, which was to use stuff as it came to me.

    Fun fact: pretty much every post was written while listening to extremely technical death metal. Whether that says more about me or Vic is subject to debate.:p
  3. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
  4. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    "The important thing is this: To be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become."

    -Charles Dubois


    Child of Hephaestus

    Greater Fate

    -You will be permanently and horrifically disfigured early on - Fulfilled
    -You are Force sensitive and will be trained by the Child of Ares
    -You will become a feared vigilante and will hunt and kill Baloo
    -You will be arrested and imprisoned by a founder of the Republic

    Lesser Fate

    -You will make at least one marriage proposal
    -You will disguise yourself as a Hutt supermodel
    -You will disrupt a banquet
    -You will kill several Devaronians at once with your bare hands - Fulfilled

    Really really really really fun character to write for and write as. I kinda feel like Bakara single-handedly made me a known name on the RPF in terms of pure writing. It's...frustrating to have to abandon him so far in with so far to go. I can't mince words here: I really do not appreciate Winged's decision here but I do respect it. This game was honestly the best game I have been involved in in a very long while. There's not much I can actually do about the decision; I'm frustrated, but that's to be expected. Really wish it could have worked out for everyone.

    That being said...absolutely adored writing this character once I finally got a grip on what I was gonna do. He was, hands down, the most badass character I've ever played as. A page into the story, he's wrestling with his brothers, bam, invading army messes up his childhood. Okay, what next? Running and trying to keep people safe - bam! - permanently disfigured. That post is probably single-handedly responsible for the one RPF Award I have ever won, I think. I hadn't yet started in ToF, and I wasn't doing much of note elsewhere. Everyone seemed to take notice at the stream-of-consciousness (which was really nice, by the way - thanks for supporting a crazy idea folks!), and after that, writing Bakara became a mixture of fiddling with angst and just pure rage. I think everyone's been there before, that whole uncertainty about life coupled with anger at a bad situation. Hopefully I didn't make the guy too emo or angsty. That wasn't my goal, but hey, things are read differently all over.

    I might be going off on a tangent here, but I like talking about this stuff, so talk I shall! Bakara was really just the most fun to write - I started deliberately fiddling with wording, working with exactly how he'd come across to everyone. I wanted him to be equally sympathetic and vitriolic. He's not a nice guy; he threatened Baloo (and was eventually to kill him - that would've been interesting to see), called Elora out, and basically went about alienating himself from regular company. At the same time though, the guy had just been through a lot more than most of the others. I thought 17 was that age where you're growing up enough for things to get really tough but remain tolerable; what if I put that through the grinder and made his tough stuff, his issues, the things that would destroy greater people? I guess it sounds pretty silly, but I liked how he was a character in a really out of the way situation. Part of what helped write that was me growing up at the time - my first year in University, dealing with serious things that didn't wind up being so serious but seeming that way for me. Bakara was great catharsis.

    His slaughter of the Devaronians was tough. I quoted a song's lyrics that Winged took and ran with, albeit in another direction - that was cool. Instead of Bakara storming in and being cool, Winged took my vague post and made him a paranoid, under-attack character. I liked that - probably one of my longest and most enjoyable to write posts ever. Really proud of that one. Also very proud of what I was doing with him lately - internal dialogue (never meant as a split personality - just the way people talk to themselves about certain things) and gradual chains of logic. The idea was that Bakara was going to grow into this mythical, horrific warrior, and be totally at ease with it. I wanted him to b
  5. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    Oh hey yeah, that Man Cubs fanfic-ization. I never did even catch up to the end of Chapter 2. :oops: It's mostly edited together but the POV strains gave me fits ...

    Still, I'd actually like to try my hand at doing that someday - finishing the story of the Man Cubs, that is - if that's alright with everyone?
  6. SirakRomar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2007
    star 4
    I actually always thought that Bakara and Elora would get much worse, before they got better. Although I did not know I would teach him, or anyone for that matter . . . I knew our characters would eventually bond in a way. When I realized how long running this game was, I thought the "closeness" would always come from a great "rift" that went first and would be overcome. It also fitted him being in league with Gallia, which my fate made my "bitter rival". So whatever happened between them, I think it had to come much, much later. My only "hidden" fate, so to say.

    I even thought they might fight physically at somke point, Elora misusing her force powers. I spend a lot of thinking about her path to Jedihood and the traps this path held ready. I pretty early on came to the conclusion I would not go the "standard-anger-problem-path", especially because I felt I did it so deep and long with Kira Romar. And elora was the least angry ManCub. Early on realizing the action-and-consequences of the game. But when Winged told me I was the probably most powerful force user of all, I realized I might have arrogance problems. The power to crush people with the power of your mind. To read emotions. To see the future, in the hand of a premature, wisecracking young woman like Elora? It might lead to some sort of arrogance and Elora´s last step to Jedihood would be learning to be humble. Maybe after misusing her powers against one of her own and realizing she had to take responsibility for her own actions, instead of calling everything justified through the will of the force. Then I would have picked up the name Jedi and begun to teach this to others, to avoid them falling into the same trap. My idea of it.

    The Rakatan Commander, who would have killed me, was alway something I would have needed to pick up along the way. The whole Irkalla thing felt not so much like my story, until the Labyrinth. I realized he was probably not a Rakatan (only called hteir Commander), so partially I thought it might be Fin´s Vampire. Turns out not to be, now. I somehow always think Fin kills me. :p

    So, that were my plans for her. But as I said, once I defeated Kori Khan I felt she was strangely complete. She had made her way to a warrior of good and her path as a Jedi seemed to be a matter of time . . . so I already thought back then, that an End Credits shot would fit her perfectly . . .


    On another note:
    I realize that the amazing, widely underestimated Chessboard was Wingeds last completed game. Aaaargh! Now I regret not having submitted to it, when I had time. It was a beautifully GMed game between two great RPers. And Winged made their fierce duel a great story.

  7. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    I really don't deserve that comment, Sirak, but thank you. *hats off*

    At this point, I take my hat off to Winged's mastery, because seeing how everything was so incredibly wove together. I was devastated to not get into this and tried to weave together various character sheets but couldn't find anything that really fit me. [face_blush] So I vacillated and could only live through the game vicariously.

    You guys were all a treat, more than anything. I loved reading everything, and you guys should all be proud of everything. :D
  8. JediMasterAnne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 4
    I actually had an idea--if others are willing to commit to it, and if Xan is open to it, to turn the fanfic into a multi-author project. Players involved would still have considerable control over their own characters, though some liberties would probably be taken with those who have been absent or who choose not to participate, and NPCs would be shared among the players whose scene at the time involves that NPC. Plus this way, we could all get some of our ideas in and have fun with it, and I think it would take some of the weight off of Xany (not saying you couldn't do it, of course, :p but if it were me, I'd certainly be intimidated).

    Just a thought...
  9. Winged_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    It goes without saying that you have my unconditional blessing for any fanfic project, or a spinoff RPG for that matter.

    Peng, Sirak, all of you- I thank you for the insights into your characters. It makes incredibly interesting reading to see the game from the other side, so to speak. Sorry again that it ended this way, dear players. You guys are inspirations.


    Apologies to Reynar and Nick- but I'm going to put up their Fates just so this doesn't drag out too long, and we can get the full picture:

    "Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination."

    -Mark Twain


    Child of Zeus

    Greater Fate
    -You will become best friends with Baloo
    -You will gradually descend into madness
    -You will proclaim yourself High Chief of the Wookiees and ally with the Rakatan Commander
    -You will eventually be arrested and executed by a founder of the Republic

    Lesser Fate
    -You will become an arms manufacturer specializing in demolitions
    -You will host a ridiculously lavish, planet-wide banquet
    -You will construct your own children
    -You will become famous for your singing ability


    "Battle not with monsters
    lest ye become a monster
    and if you gaze into the abyss
    the abyss gazes into you."

    -Nietzsche


    Child of Apollo

    Greater Fate

    -You are Force sensitive, and you will become the first ever darksider
    -You will make yourself the Rakatan Commander and ally with the High Chief of the Wookiees
    -You will eventually murder the Child of Ares, after a long and fierce rivalry
    -You will eventually be slain by the Child who can see the future

    Lesser Fate

    -You will be the only Child to meet your biological father
    -You will become a vegetarian
    -You will torture the Rodian named Kaa
    -You will become obsessed with fire

    I hope that solves the remaining mysteries. Gallia was indeed the Rakatan Commander referenced in so many of the other Fates. Irkalla was behind her ascent to that position. If you recall, he was bound to his throne and unable to leave the Netherworld. But you may also remember that he was born with a conjoined twin, Ereshkigal. Well that gave him a loophole, a twin soul through which he could return to reality...using Gallia as a conduit. I hadn't actually discussed this with Nick yet, but I was imagining it would end up being a sort of pseudo-possession, with Gallia in control but taking on the new name Ereshkigal and constantly hearing Irkalla's voice in her head. Basically Nick would have ended up with an extremely powerful darksider with a Rakatan fleet at her disposal.

    GALLia, irkALLA, ereshkiGAL...there's an 'I AM LORD VOLDEMORT' style anagram in there somewhere, but I hadn't quite figured it out yet.

    Ecko, meanwhile, would have been Gallia's primary ally. We didn't see much of him really, but it's not difficult to imagine a kid who's gone through so much trauma ending up nuts. There was to have been a Wookiee Civil War which would have ended up with Ecko (an insane arms manufacturer celebrity by this stage, remember) seizing control with Baloo as his right paw. I figured Baloo would have become depressed at seeing his young friend becoming a homicidal maniac, but would remain loyal to him, and end up doing most of the tyrant work on his behalf. Cue Bakara.


    />
  10. Sarge221 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2006
    star 5



    My mind needs to get more twisted >.> The genius kind of twisted rather then insane twisted mind you if I want to get into this GM business :p .....Or is there even a difference?

    But yeah...saw the evil Gallia coming...just not the evil Rakatan Commander Gallia that kills everyone [face_laugh] />
  11. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    Huh. That would have put a completely different twist on Vic selling out Sara - it suddenly turns into a petty revenge plot.
  12. JediMasterAnne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 4
    Kind of ironic that Ecko, being deaf, would become a famous singer... :p

    I just got to thinking about the illusion Kali showed Elisthia and Mischa via the shells on Prakith, she explained that the illusion was created from her visions of possible futures, and she chose the one that would have seemed happiest. When Elisthia asks how to return to true reality, Kali becomes angry and warns them: "By the end of your lives, you and your siblings will betray, deceive and murder one another."

    Looking at our Fates, she wasn't lying. Half of the eight original Cubs are dead at the end of the game, all at the hands of one of the other Cubs: Sara kills Ecko, Gallia kills Sara and Elora, and Mischa kills Gallia.

    Another thing about the illusions, when Mischa and Elisthia get past the first illusions where they were asked to answer a riddle, they are able to see what is happening to Bhairavi and Bagheera--Bagheera is seen being attacked by a strange creature that is trying to bite him.


    :D Nothing is coincidence, is it?
  13. Sarge221 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2006
    star 5
    Mm, I keep meaning to mention this but I always forget <.< I has always wondered if the game Mass Effect had been part of your thinking, Winged, when it came to the Man Cubs. An ancient race - Protheans/Celestials - being assaulted and nearly brought to extinction by another race - Reapers/Rakata -, and then deciding that the best way of survival was sealing themselves away in stasis pods on a hidden world unknown to the assaulting race - Ilos/Panchaea -, overseen by a ruling entity - The VI Vigil/The Soul of Panchaea -, where the awakened - Surviving Protheans/Man Cubs, Panchaean Five -, were to fight against the return of the attacking race led by said race's harbringer - Sovereign/Irkalla -, and their indoctrinated servant - Saren/Gallia.

    Man Cubs, after all, was first made around two years after the release of Mass Effect :p

    Oh, and I think one of the images you used concerning the stasis pods was in fact a screen shot from Mass Effect [face_mischief]
  14. Mitth_Fisto Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 6
    For the bite thing, if I was in on it, I could see Fin's caracter being able to go all the way and eat him. So I would think an interuption would be in order. Either one of the man cubs walking in on it, possibly his future teacher, or Averagus could 'pop' in and recognize who was being eaten and intercede. Possibly causing him to reflux slightly into his meal and seeding the infection? Just my ideas, totally up to Fins and Wings though.
  15. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    HOLY - Gallia will be the Rakatan Commander?! :eek:

    Now that puts an entirely new spin on things! Wow now I really wish we could've played that out - that would have been insanely cool! In a completely, well, sadistic sort of way. Poor Mischa would have been thrown into a tailspin there, having to ultimately kill the sister she was obsessed with emulating. Holy crap. Nasty, Wing, nasty. :D Also - "child who can see the future"? o_O Now that's an interesting development, but a logical one. She already has Force Sight, and in a way, seeing the future isn't that much of a leap.

    Man, I had wondered for a long time how exactly I was going to work Mischa's character development to hit all of her Fates. I alluded to this before, but really, it would have been such a long and twisty path. I was angling currently for her to resent Elora for leaving, and then decide [for reasons I never fully worked out - teenage pique, perhaps] that she didn't want to care and wanted to fight and learn to take care of herself. Peng kind of helped me out there by having Bakara protectively offer to teach Mischa how to fight - I was going to take him up on that, and from there it's not too big a leap to "I want to be just like Gallia". But then, because she is really a good person at heart, she'd realise eventually that Gallia is going down a path she doesn't want to follow (perhaps with Elisthia's help somewhere there - I had this vague plan of Mischa finding herself in too deep, and being unable or unwilling to see just how deep or get herself out), and turn around and join the Jedi Order, and then redeeming herself by killing the Rakatan Commander.

    Who we now know is Gallia, and who we now know will kill Elora, which is even more delicious. :D Man, that would have been so cool.



    :D Ultimecia-style works too.

    I confess, I have some doubts about whether I could do it. :p A multi-author project would be fantastic actually. I have some thoughts on how that might work - something like an ordinary RPG except with each player also controlling NPCs in a scene. Will have to think about it more and perhaps collate all the Fates into chronological order, but I bet that could work.
  16. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Well, once we do go down the "multi-author" route, particularly if we're all onboard, that's essentially akin to continuing the game, isn't it? Only with expanded control and knowledge of the storyline?

    My mind is completely blown about Gallia. Especially with its implications for my character. I'll post more of my thoughts later, though. Just wanted to verbalize what seemed to be the natural conclusion of this fan fic discussion.
  17. DarkLordoftheFins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    I hate to be the Eevil´s Advocate here, but now that I know all fates, I think continuing ManCubs is not so attractive anymore. It was really never about what happens, but how and how all things were connected. That being known, I have my doubt a FanFic could do a puzzle-game justice. Knowing the fates basically ends ManCubs for me, I must say . . .
  18. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    To me, the loss of mystery means no more urgency - I no longer Have To Know What Happens!!1! - but that doesn't mean it's no longer fascinating. Man Cubs has a rich, fascinating universe populated by dynamic and interesting characters, and I'd still like to watch it all play out. It's the difference between reading a book and skimming the Cliff's Notes version of it.

    Then again, I am also the kind of person who can be totally spoiled for a movie/book/series and still enjoy it. :p
  19. SirakRomar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2007
    star 4
    Before we go down the ff route, I think we should consider nay sort of ManCubs-verse game we can use to continue the game and it´s style of playing. although I see differences here, I think ManCubs was so much Winged´s game, we would barely do it justice without his participation. Besides this, I am surprisingly unable to do any sort of fan fiction :p

    Another ManCubs-style game (using the fates, etc.) might do the trick, too. I think Winged had a specific way to deal with those. I could see other GMs make it work in their own special ways. Was there actually ever the rumored spin-off planned by LordT or was it just a rumor? I know LordT is gone, too. But I would like to hear the idea, if there ever was any . . .
  20. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    Well... here's the thing... Someone making a Fates-centric game would be fantastic and I would totally play. I love the Fates mechanic. I think it has fantastic potential and it removes what is one of the biggest problems for a RPer and a big cause of player disappearance: the "What now?" feeling when you don't know where your character's going or supposed to be doing. And it keeps a sense of mystery ongoing! It's sheer brilliance.

    But I personally want to see the Man Cubs story finished in some form or another. I'd probably do it by myself, for myself even if nobody else was interested, thought it'd take absolutely forever. :p So if you don't want to write Elora, that's alright, I or someone else can do it - I imagine we'd have trouble getting Hamm or Reynar back in as well, so we'd be writing their characters for them anyway. Unless you don't want anyone to touch Elora ..?
  21. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    I'll admit to having been dabbling in a Fates-style game in my mind, but I doubt I would do justice to Winged's style. I've had a few concepts dotted around that could do with being used. Less Killiks, though. A lot less. [face_laugh]
  22. SirakRomar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2007
    star 4
    Well, I would give it a shot. Surely. It would need forever, but I would try. I just tihnk it would not fill the gap in my soul. Okay, that was a little too drama. But you know what I mean. ManCubs filled a certain style of high quality playing. Like Sots did it to the Lost/X-Files lovers, or the many galactic war games did to the SW fans or AFAS to the OT-fans. And so on. And I wonder if this hole could be filled in any forseeable future. Fin has no idea, if LordT ever considered anything like a spin-off. I don´t know either. He had some sort of guest-role planned, so that might have started the rumor. And Winged and Lordt gone, we might never know. a shame, if they cooperated, it could have been a brilliant idea, I think . . .

    So, let´s see what becomes of the fate-driven games . . .
  23. Winged_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    ramza- potentially...it would have depended on Vic's motivations at that particular point.

    Anne- another great spot! Yes, that was a little clue. There's plenty of them littered throughout.

    Sarge- yes indeed, Mass Effect was a major inspiration for the game. Particularly for the Panchaean backstory, as you point out. In fact, IIRC, the first time Panchaea was mentioned (by Rebacca, on Kashyyk) I used ME music to set the scene.

    Mitth- I like the idea of a reflux. I'm sure he would have been interrupted...Bagheera has plenty of allies watching his back.

    Xany- Mischa was already on her way towards seeing the future, incidentally. Remember that vision she had of the infant crawling aboard the Storyteller? That was a vision of Sanjar when he would have come to take a look around.

    Fins- I'm actually very glad to hear someone say that! I had hoped that revealing the Fates would provide that sort of ultimate closure for at least some of you.

    Sirak- the LordT spinoff rumour was just a rumour, unfortunately. A really bizarre one because it had absolutely no grain of truth to it. He was due to make some great cameos, though, and one of my biggest regrets is ending the game before we could see those.


    Predestination is extremely underused in the RPF, and I would encourage GMs to experiment with my Fates system or something similar. When conditions are right, it can lead to some spectacular storytelling. But be wary, as it has some serious drawbacks.

    For one thing, it makes player departures/disappearances about ten times harder to deal with. We didn't see that so much where we were in the storyline, because I would try and shunt absentees out of the spotlight. But I assure you the final third of the game (at which point major Fates would be constantly overlapping) would have been a nightmare.

    I could go on at length about the various pros and cons. If anyone is considering using such a system in their games, I would be more than happy to offer my thoughts and advice via PM./>
  24. Trieste Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2010
    star 5
    So I know I'm interjecting, but given the general premise of the game, but was I the only one who thought of this?

    [image=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SVbIkmvUabk/SxE8w0YjDiI/AAAAAAAAAgA/m9IrsVEraEA/s1600/talespin.jpg]

    On a more apropos note, this idea of predestination intrigues me!
  25. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Meh. Well, it seems I missed all the discussion about the actual game and final revelations, so I'll let that pass.

    I do want to chime in on two issues, though. First, I love the fates mechanism, and agree that it solves the "now what" problem more effectively than anything else I've worked with. The other major factor that really swung me was the promise from your very introductory post. It was stirring to hear a commitment to tell a story, and to know that even if most other players abandoned the game, you'd still keep driving us along by ourselves. Even better when we watched it come true. People who took a long hiatus fit back in smoothly, and on occasions when only one or two people were really posting, turn around time was still good. That sort of commitment beat the investment problem, where you stop posting in a game because no one else is, and you don't want to spend a lot of time crafting something for nothing in return. Here, with the assurance that the game would never die a slow, awkward death, but either finish or end cleanly, I had the confidence to keep on posting.

    The second thing I wanted to say is regarding a fanfic version. For me, while there was excitement in the mystery, that's never where the heart of the game was. My real enjoyment came from trying to understand a life trajectory. How do you make a plausible, realistic character arc that moves a single individual through so much? The evolution from prophet to pilot to penitent was a delight to figure out. It also offered a sort of meta-gaming experience. When Jin's thinking about the Hutts shifted wildly from fear to trust and back again, it reflected my own uncertainty about how my fate might unfold. Giving the character long term tendencies/aspirations that way creates a point of conflict with the more quotidian interactions that fill posts, deepening character and realism. Or well, I probably didn't have enough skill to communicate that in my work, but it certainly gave me more that impression as a writer. I could feel Jin's deep anxiety about the future, because I pretty much shared it. There was just a strong sense of ends with no sense of means; a very human dilemma. This is the other reason I absolutely loved the Fates system. To the point where, even if someone made a fate-based game based on a concept I wasn't even interested in, that alone might force me to reconsider.
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