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Discussion John Boyega (Finn) in Episode IX

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by RX_Sith, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. TheLastHaterOfZero

    TheLastHaterOfZero Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2016
    The novelization came out today. I've been debating if I should pick it up given how much TLJ pissed me off, but I doubt it could be as shallow as the film was (especially concerning Finn), right?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  2. miasma

    miasma Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Why would you even be debating whether or not to buy a novelization of a movie that pissed you off? Why not just find something you DO enjoy, and spend your time and money on that instead? I wasn't a fan of "Caravan Of Courage," and if they released a novelization of it (did they?), I wouldn't be debating whether or not I should buy it.
     
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  3. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    I'll don't buy it. If these novels has some big information, we'll know about it anyway (by reddit and here)
     
    TheLastHaterOfZero likes this.
  4. TheLastHaterOfZero

    TheLastHaterOfZero Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2016
    I mean, I was riding high on my SW novel and comic collections up until TLJ. There will be a gap now going forward.
     
  5. CosmicDust

    CosmicDust Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2017
    I used the audible free trial and listened to the audiobook. I personally loved Finn's story in the movie and liked Rose, but the novel made me hate her so, so much that I almost wish I'd waited for my library to get the book instead of using audible. lol There are some nice scenes with Finn and Poe, Finn and Leia, and the Finn and Rey hug was lovely, but I'd just google for excerpts.

    Especially since a lot of people here ship Finnrey, you really might not like it. Essentially Rose is insanely jealous of Finn's regard for Rey, but it's aggravating because the novel does well at saying how Finn sees Rey as one of his best friends and nothing more (he has to argue this constantly) and is scared for her because he last saw her in Starkiller. He's motivated by survival and guilt. But Rose constructed this whole relationship in her head. Some stuff in the movie that read as Rose and Finn just misunderstanding each other/having a political difference, like as the escape pod comments, are heavily jealousy tinged in the novel. It's awful. lol It's like a bunch of annoying tropes you see where it's typically the man not taking no for an answer, but gender flipped. I'm not sure if Kelly Marie Tran is an even more amazing actress than we thought and brought a little charm to Rose, but Finn's scenes were almost unreadable for me and it's all because of Rose. I walked into this novel thinking not even Jar Jar Binks could make me avoid a Finn scene. lol This novel turned me into Stormpilot or Bust because honestly Poe saved the scenes for me when Finn, Rose, and Poe were together. Rose sounds like she'd be toxic in a relationship with Finn, but meanwhile Poe was... the total opposite. When Rose made Finn panic, Poe soothed his worries. When Rose created tension, Poe jived so well with Finn that there had never been opportunity for tension to develop. It was like a hurt/comfort cycle for my patience. I cringed during the scene where Rose was teaching Finn how to pilot after they left the Raddus because really? That's how she treats the guy she has a crush on? Finn deserves better. Before that scene Poe was literally fondly thinking about how Finn isn't a good pilot, but there was genuine affection there. Meanwhile Rose was like, "Sit down, little lady, and pay attention. I'll only explain this once" -- but with the genders flipped.

    I mean, I LOVED the movie. And Rose! I went into this book hoping for insight into Rose and Finn's head to hopefully get on bored with them being a couple. lol The cuts made in the movie salvaged Rose and Finn's story imo.
     
  6. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    It just goes to show you the real reason Rian created Rose and what her function in the story was initially.

    It's shameful.
     
  7. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    The TV Shows ain't the films, nor made by the same people. The films have given no real indication that they'll be doing anything like that.
     
  8. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    I think IX, we'll see Finn and company attacking the FO head on.

    In TFA, he was just along for the ride after he defected.

    In TLJ, the resistance is being chased.

    I see IX more along the lines of the Resistance/Rebellion pooling their resources and coming up with how to defeat the FO organization.

    Finn is sure to have a major role in that.

    In other words. TFA was just Finn and the Resistance reacting to Starkiller base.

    TLJ was Finn and the Resistance reacting to being followed and the siege.

    In IX, we should see a team actually being proactive to take the FO down.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
    TheLastHaterOfZero and modaubr like this.
  9. Ryanpaulstewart

    Ryanpaulstewart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    The independent writer/filmmaker ST thing is too slippery to grasp at this point. Anything is possible because no auteur is bound by the tone, story logic, or character development of their predecessor.

    Finn is at the mercy of a hastily scripted story mainly about characters not named Finn.
     
  10. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Be that as it may, we DO know, it's the third movie in a trilogy.

    So it will be subject to finalizing certain plot points.

    The middle part of a trilogy is generally where you have more room for experimentation.
     
  11. Ryanpaulstewart

    Ryanpaulstewart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Finn has no concluding plot points. Kylo does. Rey does, to an extent. Everybody else is just along for the ride.
     
    AhsokaSolo likes this.
  12. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Defeating his enemy, (from where he was bred), the First Order, is not a plot point to you?
     
    CosmicDust likes this.
  13. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    I thought there was a scene in the novel where Finn wanted to run away with Rey and start their own lives together? Again just going by screencap. Oh and yeah, I definitely don't see Rose and Finn becoming an item. That would be incredibly toxic, and Finn gets nothing from it. I believe the novel says that Rey was a little perplexed when seeing Finn's attention to the other girl, so she looked back at her broken saber to distract herself.

    See, Finn and Rey have always just been the couple that's made the most sense to me. Rey and Kylo aren't compatible outside of simply having the Force. Finn and Rose aren't compatible outside of...being regular people. Other than that, both relationships are toxic actually.

    Finn and Rey both have feelings for each other, and end up (simply because of plot) stuck with people who just kinda wanna dictate their lives. Except Finn and Rey actually understand each other outside of all that. Really hoping IX sees them as an actual romance. They're pretty much the only couple that actually makes sense at this point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  14. CosmicDust

    CosmicDust Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2017
    I agree that Finn/Rey make sense. My preferred pairing is Finn/Poe because they make the most sense to me. After the novel, I just have renewed appreciation for Poe since he very much so respects Finn and his anxieties. The parallels such as Poe and Rose both thinking about his friendship with Rey or how Finn's a bad pilot, but with a different execution, solidifies that for me. Finn/Rey is my second favorite because even though I don't ship it, compared to Rey/Kylo and Finn/Rose, they make so much sense. But it's similar to Finn/Poe. At least they respect each other. lol Scrapping the bottom of the barrel here! [face_laugh] I don't even understand what Rose sees in Finn.

    In isolation the bit where Finn says he wanted to run away with Rey can be rather shippy, but in context, Finn is still processing waking up in the bacta suit and not knowing where Rey is. Finn waking up was one of my favorite editions because it falls into the trope where a character suffers a grave injury and wakes up somewhere foreign and they're not sure if they've been captured by the enemy or an ally. He doesn't want to ride off into the sunset with Rey so to speak, but rather he feels guilty that he went to Starkiller to save her and not only failed (in his mind), but she had to encounter Kylo Ren (doubling the failure for him). Maybe HE woke up in the Resistance, but did Rey? He's beating himself over for it. He wishes he could go back in time and run away with her because then her life wouldn't be in danger. In the same scene with the bit about Finn saying he wanted to run away with Rey, Poe also gives Finn the sewed up jacket and apologizes for the terrible sewing job, and Finn just feels even more guilty because he thinks that Poe sees him as someone Finn does not believe he could ever become. That part of the novel was also a bit of a recap about the events of TFA to remind us of what happened in case we forgot.

    The novel does further develop Finn and Rey's bond, but it's not at all romantic. It was a whole thing to show Finn sees Rey as a friend, perhaps a surrogate sister if someone wanted to read into it. Finn gets irritated when Rose insinuates that he has feelings for Rey. At one point in the casino in Canto Bight, he loses his cool and snaps, they argue, etc. It was another thing that made me dislike Rose. Finn couldn't even express himself without Rose reading hidden meanings into what he's saying. If he says he's just friends with Rey, Rose doesn't believe him. Finn/Rose in the novel is a mess. It's the same dynamic as the movie, and it hits the same beats (such as Rose reading hidden meanings despite Finn being honest with her), but if you can imagine a forced love triangle along with it.

    For Finn/Rose, to make peace with it, I read it as developing a flaw of Finn being a bit passive aggressive. I suppose another feature from his life as a stormtroope. When he snapped at Rose about her insinuations over Rey, everything had been building and building up in Finn, all these little moments where Rose was getting to him. He bit his tongue and took it for the most part until he just exploded. For me personally it was cathartic to hear him just snap. lol
     
  15. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    @CosmicDust You sure Finn saying Rey was his friend wasn't just him in denial or him trying not to seem like he's clingy? Hiding his feelings? I'm not doubting you or anything since you've read it, just offering a suggestion. Of course like you said anything could play out post TLJ so who really knows. Personally I do think Finn and Rey feel for each other more than just friends (i like to toss around john's tweet and stuff), and they're still honestly the only potential romance in SW that wouldn't have such toxicity in it. Of course Finn and Poe would be progressive and healthy as well, I just don't think that they'd be brave enough to make it officially canon (of course the same could be said for a black and white romance). It's a shame really. But JJ's done interracial romances before in Sci-Fi, and he seems to appreciate John/Finn and Daisy/Rey's chemistry, so hopefully he works it out.
     
  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I’d be OK with Finn/Rey or Finn/Poe. That said, I don’t think “she’s my friend” closes the door on potential romance since friendship and romance are not mutually exclusive.
     
  17. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Especially since to some people "I'm now a dictator and known war criminal" isn't a deal breaker either.
     
  18. CosmicDust

    CosmicDust Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 16, 2017
    @RandomGreyJ It's possible IX could take them in another direction, but Finn didn't seem to see Rey in that way. He does care for her and values her, just not in that way. He definitely didn't seem clingy and I think his feelings for Rey was one of the few things Finn felt confident about.

    @anakinfansince1983 I agree in general, but I personally didn't get any "friends to lovers" vibes from Finn and Rey specifically. They're just genuinely best friends. But who knows how IX will go. TLJ was full of surprises so anything could happen.
     
  19. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    @CosmicDust Yeah, but again, I can't really see Finn and Rose getting together considering Rose is pretty toxic of a person and I'd hate to see Finn stuck with her in her current state. And Poe, while they'd definitely work as a couple ,I feel like they aren't brave enough to see it through. So out of those options I feel like Finn and Rey just seem to be the most likely romance if I had to use the process of elimination (and going by JJ's past work).

    Of course regardless I just want to see Finn shine on his own though. That's the most important thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  20. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    I haven't had the time to read the novelization except for pieces, but is Rose really toxic? That sounds like hyperbole to the max.

    It sounds like Rose feels like an obstacle to FinnRey.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  21. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    I'm not sure if it's true but someone said that in the novel, Rose wants to tase Finn again when he talks about Rey. If that's true, that definitely sounds toxic. And honestly just kinda creepy overall. Considering it's none of her business even if she did like him.
     
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  22. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    have you ever felt irritated with someone? I guess this is different in that Rose did actually tase Finn. But "toxic" seems still like it's blowing the Finn/Rose dynamic out of proportion.
     
  23. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Yeah but so far all I've heard about her from the novel is how much she wants to basically keep Finn in line (if I had to sum it up). Which would be fine if it didn't paint her as so aggressive about it non-stop. Her fondness of Finn is never really displayed in a way that seems actually sweet or heartfelt (I'm not really counting the speeder scene).

    Basically the dynamic never felt like something that was actually appealing. With Finn and Rey you at least got the sense that they genuinely cared for each other's wellbeing and had equal respect for each other. And they both grew from it. But the Finn and Rose dynamic feels nothing like that. She just feels like she's bossing him around the whole time, and he hardly even seems like he likes her at all as a person. Part of me is worried that Rian/Jason turned the first lead woc into a "jealous fangirl" type.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
  24. CosmicDust

    CosmicDust Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2017
    I mentioned toxic first and I meant it just for the novel extended version. I also don't really care about Finn/Rey. It's more like, "If the option is Reylo or Finnrey... yeah I pick Finnrey." So for me the obstacle to Finnrey isn't motivating my thoughts.

    I think she's toxic as a potential romantic partner because there's instances like when Rose is instructing Finn how to fly but Rose's whole vibe puts the scene on edge. It's right after they disembark from the Raddus. She's like that kind of person that knows more than you and needs to demonstrate and teach something to you, but they do it in such a condescending way that they make you feel like a massive idiot, the whole situation is tense, etc. Finn DID mess up, but he doesn't deserve being belittled. It also stands out to me because we have Poe instructed Finn how to use the laser canons in the TIE fighter, Rey instructed him on the Falcon, and they don't treat him that way. Since Rose supposedly has a crush on him and kisses him, I can't divorce her behavior from that. She doesn't come off that way in the movie imho because that stuff was cut out.

    Honestly, I don't think that was the intention with Rose, which is why the scenes were cut. She struck me as having a chip on her shoulder because she's one of the "little guys" as a maintenance technician. The scene where Finn and Rose tell Poe about the hyperspace tracker is from Rose's pov, and when Poe says the "blow something up?" line, Rose thinks about how all those mindless flyboy pilots are the same, etc, but Poe just wants to feel useful and he feels useful in an X-Wing. In those moments were she comes off as more level headed than Poe or a better pilot than Finn -- she feels like she's got one on the heroes. It's the moment for the little guy to shine. This in itself isn't toxic -- the same thing happens on Canto Bight in the movie, for example, when Rose calls Finn out for falling for the glitz and glamour of the casino. However, the novel says stuff like, "Finn's handsome but a doofus" during these moments, so her behavior is directly linked to her feelings for Finn in ways they are not in the movie, which changes Rose's motivations in those scenes. On Canto Bight, it's just political beliefs. But in the scene where she teaches him how to pilot, it's cast in a different light because she's thinking he's handsome but a doofus who needs her guiding hand. So imho, if she has a crush on him and says/thinks stuff like that, she's toxic. The "I saved you, dummy" feels a bit weird in the novel with that in mind, imho. In the movie it sounds like a cute little thing, but in the novel... there are moments were Rose actually thinks he's not as bright.

    @RandomGreyJ For a M/M romance, I kind of feel like it's not so out of the picture since Kathleen Kennedy isn't opposed to it and says Finn/Poe was discussed. Promo material mentions Finn/Poe often with the cast and crew treating it legitimately. Then you contrast to them saying Finn/Rey are like brother and sister (which is almost always 99% said about the LGBT options) or Reylo being treated ambivalently. I think the only time someone said something negative about Finn/Poe was John initially, and then almost immediately he made a statement going, "But who knows. After all, Vader is Luke's father." But who knows at the end of the day.
     
  25. GauntGrandMoff

    GauntGrandMoff Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2016


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