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Discussion John Boyega (Finn) in Episode IX

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by RX_Sith, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    PLEASE FACE SOMEONE ELSE AND HAVE A LONGER FIGHT AND WIN FFS EVEN JOHN WANTS IT
     
  2. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    [​IMG]

    So Lucasfilm isn't being discreet anymore about painting Finn as an idiot. First the films, then Forces of Destiny, and now the novelization.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  3. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Honestly the next movie should have some "Finn lectures Rose" moments to make up for that constantly annoyance in TLJ. ;)
     
  4. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 10, 2017
    This makes me wonder what leads Rose to kiss Finn ...
     
  5. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 11, 2014
    I'd prefer not to think of that scene ugh.
     
  6. Han Drolo

    Han Drolo Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2014
    It's like every concern we had for Finn coming out of TFA has been validated. I can't believe the so called story group is letting this character, who had so much potential, become space Chris Tucker.

    Also , considering that statement from John about his duel with Phasma, I have no doubt he and Rian were never on the same page concerning Finn and his pleas to play a stronger character fell on deaf ears, if not downright oblivious.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  7. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Well Rian also had to sell Mark on what he was doing with Luke's character (and even if he eventually bought into it, Mark seemed well-aware that many fans weren't going to like it regardless). Also Daisy said that she was shocked by her character's direction as well.

    Like I said, Rian wanted to do his thing and his thing alone. Whether that works for you or not, well that's up to you of course.
     
    TheLastHaterOfZero likes this.
  8. Han Drolo

    Han Drolo Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2014
    It seems the only people it worked for were he and Kennedy , whose ready to bankroll an entire trilogy because she was so taken by his story in TLJ. Let me ask you something, if TLJ didn't have the SW caption on it , would you consider it a good movie based on the merits of it's story content alone? They literally had force chat hook ups between Rey and Kylo, in what world is crap like that not fan fiction tier?

    Speaking of which they have to bring it hard in IX or this trilogy will feel pointless, I don't know what the heck KK has or had planned but so far the ST has no real purpose or direction aside from deconstructing Kylo's psyche, the slight pull to the light and his further descent into darkness, feels like the rest of the characters are just along for the ride , including Rey , who doesn't seem to be anything more than an action figure fodder like Phasma at this point, she lacks agency of her own. Bunch of men telling her what she needs and they're trying to paint it up as female empowerment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  9. DjTomek

    DjTomek Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2018
    He, the story group, JJ Abrams who was exec producer and privy to the script since 2014-2015, Iger who saw dailies and gave Kennedy the greenlight... Johnson wasn't pulling stuff out of his bum, if anything it shows that he followed the story guidelines JJ, George and Kennedy agreed on before starting TFA. I suspect thats why they gave him 3 more movies to write/direct, hes a good teamplayer while also a creative writer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  10. Han Drolo

    Han Drolo Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2014
    George had nothing to do with this film, his treatments were thrown out as early as TFA, the rest of the people you mentioned are company men, they're gonna play ball bang or bust, because as you said Rian is a Team player, much like a certain Scott Buck. I have a feeling much like that situation , the higher ups will get the hint if the audiences aren't receptive to what he's selling, especially after the mixed bag that was TLJ.
     
  11. DjTomek

    DjTomek Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2018
    I don't think its a mixed bag at all, its a great SW film that took a huge risk....Luke's treatment. And the suits along with the creative team knew about it and knew it would create a backlash (along with Rey's parentage) .
    It needed to be done, and the huge backlash from the hardcore OT fans shows how much of a stranglehold the character had over the entire franchise.
    The rest of the vitriol is nothing more than weak nitpicks born from either not paying attention or not wanting to pay attention, or simply not liking the direction some characters took.

    Also i believe Hildalgo talked about the differences between George concepts and JJ's concepts, and they are very similar. Some characters change, others get cut but i believe the grand concept of the trilogy is the same, or atleast similar. Hildalgo mentioned in George's prototypes episode VIII would happen in the third act of VII, or atleast the son's betrayal of the father, Kira finding Luke on the island temple etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  12. Adept

    Adept Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    That's why I like TLJ so much, EVERYONE got a derailing!

    In all seriousness, I'd argue that what John initially saw was likely positive in his eyes. The Canto Bight stuff had a 'Catch a theif/James bond' air about it with Finn going up against a warlord, he got to defeat Phasma and by the films end Finn is ready to run out there and back Luke up. However, things get cut, moved around etc and here we are with the film in it's current form.

    Now I'm not going to pretend that JJ is going to swoop in and make it all better. Afterall it's his movie that began a lot of complaints about Finn even if if the director himself meant the best. That said, he IS the one that wanted to work with John so I'd like to see that as a sign he always intended for the character to grow beyond even where he is now, even if JJ himself didn't write all the films.
     
  13. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    I'd argue that Yoda came out looking perfect and better than he ever has!

    Hopefully the same will be said about Force ghost Luke in IX.

    But yeah. Everyone else got derailed. That was the point.
     
  14. jdTde33

    jdTde33 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Who remembers when Rian said Finn was one of the “big two” along with Rey, even though that was clearly Kylo. The man straight up lied.

    As it stands, Finn is the only main character across the entire saga who I’ve seen compared to Jar Jar.

    It’s laughable yet saddening how badly Lucasfilm has failed the character, and by extension how badly they’ve failed John himself.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  15. CosmicDust

    CosmicDust Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2017
    I think it could be salvaged if they make it that Phasma didn't die, and she becomes a ST Boba Fett tracking down Finn. It'd be like a space Western with a final shoot out after she's chased him across the desert kind of thing. Also if he just has any more impressive actiony moment to demonstrate why Phasma was so bitter about losing him in particular as a trooper. It could also be salvaged if they don't have Finn end up with Rose, or followed through on their problematic aspects by writing Finn as believing he owes her his affection because she puts him in the same mental space as when he was a trooper. Also explains why he stuck by Rose and didn't speak to Rey on the Falcon. It could be epic if it's a coming out story where Rose leads Finn to realize he's gay but the FO's homophobia repressed him, so his confusion over the kiss was tangled up in just not liking her and that. The "cute boyfriend" line gets deepened, so he's less comedic in retrospect. It introduces topical themes for real life and explores more mundane aspects of being a trooper. But I doubt that was on RJ's mind given comments he made about including LGBT characters if it was needed for the story.
     
  16. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Bringing back Phasma for Finn to defeat AGAIN wouldn't help anything. She was easy to "defeat" in TFA and easy to defeat in TLJ. Phasma is not a challenge for Finn. Maybe she could have been, but that ship has sailed, twice.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    Kurenai24, rorow1, Troopa212 and 5 others like this.
  17. Oissan

    Oissan Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    I don't, do you have any source for that?

    Just because some random people on the internet compare Finn to Jar Jar, doesn't mean that the comparison makes any sense.

    I don't see how Lucasfilm has failed the character or John Boyega, so I guess we have to disagree on that one as well. TFA made it very clear that Finn was way in over his head and never really wanted to have anything to do with all this. In a way, that is sort of Indiana Jones like, someone who has to do things he never really wanted to have to deal with, and somehow getting through anyway. Finn's concern throughout TFA was Rey, not the resistance, not beating the First Order, Rey. And that stays that way in the early parts of TLJ, until he recognizes that he does have a place in the fight against the First Order. Character-wise he moved from someone who wants to stay out of things unless it concerns Rey, to realising that he needs to fight and that he can contribute. And in doing so he even overcompensates in trying to sacrifce himself for the cause. He moves from reluctant fighter (and he wasn't exactly supposed to be an elite troops either, he was inexperienced after all) to someone who fights for the cause. I don't see how that is supposed to be weak. He developed in TLJ, and there is little reason to assume that he won't see further growth in Episode IX.

    I really have no idea how that is supposed to "salvage" Finn. If anything it would make him much weaker as a character. He already bested Phasma in TLJ, how would weakening that outcome to have her come after him again make his character stronger?
    All it would show, is that what he did last time around wasn't good enough to take her out entirely. That weakens him as a fighter.
    And you do remember that Boba Fett got accidentaly thrown into the Sarlacc pit in the most pitiful way possible, yes?
     
    oncafar likes this.
  18. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    "Obviously, Rey and Finn, those are like the two big characters"

    http://www.starwars.com/news/we-had...ohnson-on-the-path-to-star-wars-the-last-jedi
     
    jdTde33 and Ryanpaulstewart like this.
  19. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 5, 2016
    Finn beating Phasma is the one thing Finn got accomplished in TLJ.

    Phasma was just a stepping stone for Finn's growth.

    And she's gone now. There's no reason to go backwards.

    We've already got her origin novel out of the way.

    My opinion, Finn needs to concentrate on taking the FO down in IX.
    Whether internally by revolt or externally by defeating them.
     
    oncafar likes this.
  20. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    @JediAce1 "I see through the lies of the Jedi." :anakin::bluesaber:
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  21. Han Drolo

    Han Drolo Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2014
    Just saw the deleted Finn vs Phasma scene.....How did that end up on the cutting room floor again? It's like someone came in and said "Finn and Phasma, look way too cool, lets scrap this".
     
    TheLastHaterOfZero and 11-4D like this.
  22. Adept

    Adept Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    I feel Vindicated and annoyed at the same time.

    Vindicated because that scene shows why John Boyega felt he and Rian were on the same page. Finn clearly got the upper hand in melee combat vs Phasma due to her broken helmet and the fact she's climbing up to face him, forcing her to use other troopers to surround Finn. Then Finn drops his verbal bombshell and Phasma's choice of words seems to make the other troopers consider that Finn is in fact telling the truth. Phasma's lone eye makes it clear she realizes her mistake before she guns them down, and Finn leaps into action taking her hand...sure he get's knocked down...but instead of giving up he grabs a heavy blaster and blows Phasma away.

    Annoyed because I'm sure this lengthier scene was cut down for time...and if it meant we lost the scene of Luke drinking Milk...I'd rather have kept this Finn/Phasma scene in.
     
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I’d rather have that scene than a lot of scenes we got, including Luke drinking milk.
     
  24. Oissan

    Oissan Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Mhm, when looking at the context of that quote, it doesn't seem to imply what jdTde33 claimed it was about, so no, he wasn't lying.


    The deleted scene is indeed quite nice. I'd have to look at all what is around it to see how it works in combination, but in itself it is pretty cool and would have given a bit more depth to Finn and Phasma.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Lost_Hope likes this.
  25. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    That deleted scene belies the film's overall agenda of focusing on the prevailing trope of character deconstruction over character progression. The scene is literally the sole true insight into Phasma's character in either film and it is a deleted scene. It is the sole hint that more within the First Order ranks have similar doubts or questions to Finn. It is the only hint that Finn could actually influence other Stormtroopers to make the same brave choices he has made. But, as was pointed out, we needed the precious screentime to be designated for showing tragic, broke Luke chugging from a swollen teat.