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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST John Boyega (Finn) in Episode VII

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Momotaros, Apr 29, 2014.

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  1. Skywalked

    Skywalked Jedi Padawan star 2

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    May 20, 2015
    I'm just gonna say it and then move on from it. I'm all for strong female characters, but it's not as if that's in short supply in the theaters as far as LEADS are concerned. I'm down with it because I already really like the Rey character. But how many series right now have a black male lead under 25? None really, not series at least. It would be a serious mistake, especially in the era of social justice people, to make the black guy a wimp. Given current events and what was made evident following John Boyega being cast at ALL says plenty. A strong young black male lead is what Hollywood NEEDS to promote. Not part of an ensemble, not a sidekick, not a weak person, but someone people can identify with and follow without associating difference because of race. No matter who you are it should be identifiable that Finn is like Luke, your perspective on the series and a growing story to meeting these characters and new characters without any prior attachments aside from a surprising family tie that even he didn't know about. We shouldn't be able to say "Well black people will relate to him" or "Well males will relate to him" we should see it as "Everyone will relate to him". It could have a greater impact in such a massive series, as Star Wars is, to have a character like him represent to those who are far too ignorant of the century we live in to identify with someone outside of their race. For that reason, if Finn is the lead, Star Wars will do what it always has done: Change film and pop culture as well as society.

    That being said; I was noticing something, in the concept art there may be a reasoning for Finn carrying Anakin/Luke's lightsaber the way he is. Those are improvised clothes and he may just not have a belt clip handy yet? It'd make more sense then him just having a belt that just so happened to have lightsaber attachments, especially with the rarity of there being Jedi at all. Just something I noticed about why he'd have it in the loops rather than on a belt, since it'd make more sense to have it there rather than anywhere else.
     
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  2. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 16, 2013
    Yeah that's not to be discounted, definitely. But not in my mind.
     
  3. Tatooine Twilight Twins

    Tatooine Twilight Twins Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 1, 2014
    Since you are new to this board you probably don't realize how sensitive a topic this has been and how people tend to frown upon any discussion of race in general (in large part because of the rules of this board). Nonetheless I appreciate your honesty. Here's my take:

    Despite comments from the fringe element of SW fandom that claimed Boyega's casting was a stunt, or a form of political correctness or some version of affirmative action, I think he was chosen because of his talent. The rave reviews he personally got for "Attack the Block"and the yet-to-be-released Sundance fave "Imperial Dreams" is a testament to his abilities. Still he obviously wasn't the first person of color talented enough to get a plum gig like TFA. He just so happened to have the fortune to come along at a time where there were directors and producers willing to give him the chance. I can't say enough about how JJ and Co deserved more praise and acknowledgment for breaking the color barrier by giving Boyega a lead role in the type of film that guys like him were never chosen for in the past. All that backslapping that went the way of the producers and directors of the Fast and the Furious franchise for acknowledging the growing importance of diversity should have been directed at JJ and KK too. Not just for Boyega or Ridley as a leading female character, but for Isaac as well. Unfortunately such praise was virtually nonexistent in the wake of the controversy of how there were originally not enough women in the cast and the uproar over where was Lupita Nyong'o, etc. Because of this TPTB of TFA never got their just due.

    Now would it be great if Boyega was the lead of the new trilogy? You bet and as you pointed out it would be a kind of milestone. There are young women like Ridley leading tentpole film franchises, but there are no guys like Boyega getting such opportunities in Hollywood. Maybe Disney and Lucas Film are not willing to go that far yet because they don't consider the fanbase or moviegoing audience to be ready. Then again it could be they have a bigger priority of letting a female have the next crack at being the focal character. Or perhaps it is all comes to the notion of keeping a Skywalker in the forefront. Then again perhaps Boyega will still turn out to be the lead or an equal co-lead. For the millionth time I will reiterate it doesn't ultimately matter to me which one is the lead as long as all the main characters are well developed and have their own individual motivations.The only thing that makes me somewhat bitter is how the overwhelming majority of SW fans who weighed in online tend to favor the idea of Rey as the major character. It would be easy to accept Boyega as the secondary lead if there weren't so many people out there hoping for him to not be the lead in the first place.

    If I were you I would try not to worry too much about Finn being a weak character of some buffoon-like sidekick. With him having so much screen time it would likely wreck the film in some ways if his character is presented as such. I think JJ and Kasdan are too smart for that. If I'm wrong that could mean trouble. As of now almost all the media and blog talk, when touching upon the issue of stereotypes and breaking new ground, has been directed at whether TPTB will do justice to a "strong female protagonist" and how progressive that will be. Not much pre-game analysis by the blogosphere and media has been spent on how Boyega's Finn will be portrayed, especially since most of those types don't keep up with spoilers. But if the worst-case-scenario Finn shows up on screen in December, the one that some people on this site have been fretting, then SW and Disney will have to deal with what ultimately may be a bit of controversy. The controversy may be a slow build but you can bet the press, the blogs, the twitter-verse will eventually pick up on it and make a stink of things. I can envision them castigating the makers of TFA as being relics who still present such stereotypical, craven, helpless images of people of color in particular and black men in general. All the good buzz TFA picks up for its presentation of a confident, independent, powerful female lead will eventually be largely squandered over Finn if he is in contrast handled inexcusably bad. Websites and media outlets with certain agendas who couldn't care less about Star Wars and Boyega's casting months earlier will suddenly pile on by taking part in the media backlash putting the makers of the film on the defensive and ruining much of the goodwill...and perhaps a chunk of the bottom line (and God help us all if this particular press ever get wind of the months of racist message board postings and tweets by so-called Star Wars fans). This may not be entirely fair but you can take it to the bank this is what will occur. Count on it.

    Because of this scenario I don't think those worse fears of Finn's portrayal will ever be realized. JJ, KK, Kasdan and Disney are too smart for that. Even more important I don't think JJ and Kasdan would create such a pathetic character in the first place.

    By the way, Skywalked, welcome to the board.
     
  4. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2012

    Lol so when its positive MSW wants to be cautious when its jokes about his shooting skills and a pacifist argument they arent cautious at all. I am going to assume its because they learned their lessons.
     
  5. Momotaros

    Momotaros Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 13, 2013
    Thier several hints of it. Sadly,I don't think some will accept it untill they see it on the big screen. They will accept Rey being a Jedi,but any hint of Finn possibly being one is squashed every time. For who knows what reason.

    It's funny MSW doesn't seems to be as cautious when it comes to Daisy(Rey) possibly being one.
     
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  6. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    I'd very much like it if Finn were the lead and it was his journey. He remains the most interesting of the new characters to me and John's acting talents and charisma make Finn instantly likable.

    I do not expect to see another Peter and Fran (from 1978 Dawn of the Dead) because you got over the surface details relatively quickly and liked them. I still want to follow these two through their very harrowing journey now as much as I did upon seeing this almost 30 years ago. Modern politics won't allow for great characters simply to just be, regardless of who the actor is and that's a shame.

    I am 100% behind Finn and I look forward to his journey. I hope Finn will be as interesting as John himself.
     
  7. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2012
    Master_Lok Can u explain the analogy? I dont get it.
     
  8. Momotaros

    Momotaros Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 13, 2013
    Still don't understand why Finn would be drawn to a lightsaber and Maz tell Leia to give it to Finn if he wasn't force senstive. I mean do you really want a complete novice and a person you just meet holding on to a weapon that for a Jedi. That like giving a gun to a child and saying. "Now here kid go outside and shoot this around school children."

    It's like that rumor of we had Finn with a lightsaber in a teaser,but we cut it out because it would mislead people in to thinking he's a Jedi. Yet a Finn concept art with a lightsaber at thier biggest event doesn't have the same effect. Huh??
     
  9. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012

    That Peter and Fran are ultimately equals and who they are on the surface (their gender / ethnicity) is pushed aside for pure characterization. You simply get sucked in because they're great characters, written and performed quite well. One of the reasons why I love older genre films is because the characters just are. Race and gender do not get in the way, they might be a minor plot point and then poof they move back to the characters and their plight. You don't care because the characters rise above that and are interesting / fun.

    And why this has to get in the way now is mind boggling to me.

    Just market their characters, if you create great characters people will come. Plain and simple. I hate to make things political etc. I just do not see modern movies / characters that really make me love them and think about them long after the movie. (My gush over Winter Soldier was a knee jerk reaction to loving that comic run for several years and, yes, it was more character centric than many genres films these days, but it's ultimately pretty empty to me now.)
     
  10. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2012
    Oh yeah that was a good run which is rare not very many good comic runs from Marvel and DC these days
     
  11. Han Drolo

    Han Drolo Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 9, 2014
    You're breaking my heart again Lok. (padme syle)


    I love Winter Soldier. Probably Marvel's best imo.
     
  12. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    ;) Never promised you a Naboo rose garden good Sir Drolo. I will agree that Winter Soldier the best Marvel, but like just about everything else, it's ultimately not stoking my imagination or lingering in my memory. I suppose wanting the same emotion and characterization from the comic was asking too much in these days of spectacle and bludgeon messages. I only wish to escape, have fun and get wrapped up with the characters. That's not happening with new films, comics or novels really.

    So, outside of TFA, I'll rent new movies and continue to buy older ones.

    Back on topic:

    I hope TFA and the rest of this trilogy will be like Star Wars in that I can watch them and enjoy the new characters as much as the OT folks. That John is such a solid actor for someone so young, is quite encouraging. That I continue to be fascinated by Finn is very good indeed.
     
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  13. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 16, 2013
    What is your own opinion of Finn's unknown character arc? What do you envisage his characters status being going into VIII?
     
  14. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    Well, we still know very little about him going into VII. ;)

    That said, a good question Jcuk.

    Going into VIII, I would hope for Finn to experience considerable growth, whether he is on the Jedi path or not. If the defector element accurate it is very intriguing to me. I wouldn't mind see Finn become a Jedi as I think it would be fascinating to see an unwilling servant of evil go through those a tweak on those trials. There is huge potential for character growth and development there so that is what I hope for (besides having fun and feeling like I'm watching Star Wars.)
     
  15. Jcuk

    Jcuk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 16, 2013
    Don't mean to derail this thread, but I think my question has pertinence. Do we have any official confirmation as to who (out of the new trio of leads) has signed up to appear in the next episode? Just curious :)
     
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  16. Han Drolo

    Han Drolo Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 9, 2014
    Also not to get off topic, I just saw Mad Max yesterday (brilliant film) and after I left all I could think about was the dynamic between Max and Furiosa and how it would compare to Finn and Rey's dynamic in TFA.

    There's been a lot of talk about the capability disparity between the two and what I saw from this movie in regards to this between it's two leads , let me tell you, they left nothing to be desired. It was a perfect portrayal of equals imo.

    Max was good at this , Furiosa was better at that. They each saved each others skins a number of times in the film, but you never felt like "Damn, she's totally carrying this dude" or vise versa, both the characters were products of their environment and they helped push the narrative forward in their own way at crucial points during the film. The true designation of a lead is almost non existent , I mean obviously it's a Mad Max film, but he serves more as a PoV character for whats more apparently Furiosa's story. (As a few of us assume with Rey and Finn)

    I just hope a similar dynamic happens with Rey and Finn, where each character has their own strengths and weaknesses and they only make it through the conflict with the support of eachother.
     
  17. Tatooine Twilight Twins

    Tatooine Twilight Twins Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 1, 2014


    Misinformation by a certain site last summer made it seem as if only one had been confirmed officially at signing on to the next two episodes (I'll let you guess which site and which character). And that rumor spread like wildfire among all the other websites that don't practice that little thing known as journalism. The reality however is that there hadn't been any official confirmation (unless you want to include what was said on stage at Celebration and the recent press conference of Ridley and KK in Japan). But as I posted months ago Disney didn't have to make any official statements as far as I was concerned. We pretty much knew as soon as we saw that now iconic casting photo that Ridley, Boyega and Driver were going to be around for all three (they were the first three names officially listed anyway). Pretty much thought Isaac, Gleeson and Serkis would be around for all three too. Once I learned Isaac was part of the New Big Three I bumped him up to definitely appearing in all three movies.
     
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  18. Tatooine Twilight Twins

    Tatooine Twilight Twins Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 1, 2014


    I was thinking the EXACT same thing when I saw it the Thursday night before its weekend opening. Both characters were great, both characters were well drawn, both had their own motivations and goals, both had their own set of strengths, both had to earn each others' trust and both had to eventually learn how to work together as a team for a common cause. I saw it as verification that such a thing could be done with two equal co-leads. Wouldn't it be great if TFA manage to do this just as effectively?

    And then I thought how disappointing it would be if George Miller was able to pull if off while JJ and Co end up failing. George Miller was making another Mad Max film. Mad Max is the franchise character. Mad Max's name is in the title. Miller did not have to make Furiosa shine or give her such a major role that allowed her to stand toe-to-toe with Max. But he did so anyhow because he probably understood it would improve the narrative of the film. And here's the rub....if Furiosa was limited to being only a supporting female character in a Mad Max film that would have led to more immediate outrage than if Finn ends up a token sidekick in a Star Wars film (not a Rey film....a Star Wars film). Being very vocal about the portrayal of female characters in films and TV is all the rage these days. Thus TPTB may think their work is done simply by making Rey the lone competent, kick-butt individual of the twosome of her and Finn although my best guess is that they would want to make Finn a strong character too. Of course I should add no one ever saw the trailers for Mad Max and mistook Furiosa for a panicking coward or anything else short of a force to be reckoned with.
     
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  19. yassir.khan

    yassir.khan Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2014
    I still think it was very significant that the first moving image we see of this new film is Boyega. That's sending out a clear message. I think he's going to be a major part of the narrative and will hold his own.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  20. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Force Ghost star 5

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    May 8, 2014
    Max and Furiosa also just showed two people who are badasses. One has a compelling story (Furiosa), and the other you could argue was just.....there. Max really had no story. But with a movie like Fury Road, that's perfectly acceptable, because you're going to a film like that to see incredible action, not so much a iconic story.

    I have faith that with Finn and Rey you're going to get a much more heartfelt story and better character development. A guy who has a change of heart on exactly what he's doing with his life, and a girl who once lived a lonely life end up potentially being reunited with her family.
     
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  21. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2012
    Also Max has had development before although I am sure a bit of the audience doesnt know much about the old Max Movies. Additonally, the future of the Studio did not depend on Mad Max
     
  22. Han Drolo

    Han Drolo Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 9, 2014
    Wow, you guys went deeper than I cared to , but ok. [face_dunno]
     
  23. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    Well what little development Max had was in the first movie. You saw little glimpses of growth in Road Warrior and Beyond Thunderdome, but... back on topic...

    I look forward to Finn's complexity, because I do think we'll get that.
     
  24. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2012
    I am looking for three things: Competence, Skills and an Arc.
     
  25. Han Drolo

    Han Drolo Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 9, 2014
    I wouldn't worry , MSW has reported one of their sources says he's naturally in tune with the force and the fact that the alternative is just a left open door similar to Leia's status then I think that's enough indication Finn destiny is tied in some way to Jedi.

    Being drawn to the sabre, duels, remotes, potential master hanging around. I mean come on, why even bother otherwise?
     
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