main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

  2. The Boards Are Now Reopened For Business:

    READ THIS: your ability to post here depends upon it.. See the new rules thread here. Bans can and will be handed out to anyone who doesn't abide by the forum rules.

TFA TLJ John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Momotaros, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. Shakez

    Shakez Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Guys, im starting to get a bit confused now that RJ said that there are mutltipe protagonists in this trilogy: https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/905544308085874688. I mean it seemed pretty simple in TFA, where you had Finn and Rey as co-protagonists and Kylo as the main antagonist. In TLJ Rey and Finn are split up, Poe has a bigger role, and Kylo seemingly is the other part of the same half (with Rey). This tweet in particular seems to imply that Rian intends to remove Kylo from primary antagonist status: https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/905497076682842112 (speculation ofcourse).

    Isn't that a tad too many? Rey, Finn, Kylo, and possibly Poe as main protagonists in their own respective storylines seems a bit too much. I get that they are all viewpoint charachters in a sense, but that wouldn't make them protagonists in the ST per sé. I mean, for instance whenever Rey joins up with Finn and Poe in the third act, does that relegate them back to supporting status?
     
  2. Grand Master Galen Marek

    Grand Master Galen Marek Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2014
    I hope he gets some extra weapons upgrade haul.
     
  3. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    I keep telling you all Kylo is going to be redeemed and will become the male lead protagonist in IX. I can see it coming from a mile away.
     
    sterling3763 likes this.
  4. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Politely asking: If that's the case, what was the point of hiring John to play Finn? He's such a good actor and has not been given the chance to show that off yet (and ditto for Oscar.)

    Though you may unfortunately be right regarding Kylo in IX, I still think that Finn will make a big leap and be very pivotal to this trilogy going forward.
     
  5. forever_jedi

    forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2002
    I don't think it's too many. Audiences are more sophisticated now than in the 1970s/1980s; they want a dense, meaty story with many central characters, who may appeal to different target groups in the audience. In TFA, one starts off with Finn and Rey as co-protags, but Han plays an extremely large role. Almost a protag role. Larger than Obi-Wan in ANH for example, almost like Qui-Gon in TPM. If TLJ starts to propel the 4 newcomers - Rey, Finn, Poe and Kylo - towards co-protag status, with Rey being a little more central than the others (which I personally believe, despite quotes that are endlessly debated on these boards) - why not? It doesn't mean that when Rey joins up with Finn and Poe in TLJ, that the latter will be relegated back at the expense of Rey, but that all three will share equally in the common story at that point. Before that, each is a protag in his/her own story.
    Having multiple protags also ensures better future prospects of spin-off films, or EU.
     
  6. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Honestly at this point I feel like it would be just bad writing if they did that. The thought of Kylo Ren just joining the good guys willy-nilly annoys me because it basically means he gets off scot-free for his actions and it assumes that everyone forgives him, and the only "punishment" he gets is what...some guilt?

    Finn was already replaced as the "Luke Skywalker" of the trilogy and now they're gonna have him replaced by another white character for the male lead position. And in the end the main characters would be (just gonna be blunt) white people playing the leading front-and-center Force roles rendering the other non-white characters to supporting background roles while LF pats itself on the back for being diverse. I'm sorry but that would be a stupid idea in my opinion.
     
  7. ThreeDeathstickProblem

    ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2014
    "Finn was already replaced as the "Luke Skywalker" of the trilogy"
    [​IMG]
     
    oncafar likes this.
  8. Shakez

    Shakez Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Well Star Wars always had multiple viewpoint charachters, but to label each and everyone as a main protagonist is strange. Am i just getting the term wrong? Because i thought most stories only had one main protagonist, sometimes two, but hardly ever more than that.

    As i see it now, Rey is the main protagonist, Finn the deuteragonist, and Kylo the main antagonist. Everyone else would be supporting. But Rian seems to imply it's not, with Kylo possibly becoming a protagonist...
     
  9. Hopeless

    Hopeless Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2006
    So Kylo uses an ancient Rakatan device built by someone name H.G.Wells to travel into the distant past seeking the first Sith.
    Rey tries to stop him she ends up on Tattooine with amnesia whilst Kylo discovers HE'S the First Sith and with no way to return he begins building the Sith unaware that at some point a splinter faction splits off to form the Jedi and thus begins the imbalance thats why Luke wants to end the Jedi as they've fulfilled their mission...
     
  10. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    I don't think he'll be joining the Resistance or anything like that, but I do feel like he'll be given more screentime than usual in IX to flesh out his redemption arc. He's a Skywalker with a lightsaber fighting against Snoke, there's no way Finn can compete with that. Not to mention competing against Luke as well. I think they will focus heavily on the force users in IX especially since it's the closing film of the trilogy.

    I don't want it to be that way, but maybe Lucasfilm braced Finn fans for this outcome when they tricked folks into thinking Finn was more important to the story than he really is with the lightsaber misdirection.
     
  11. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    I'm starting to think he maybe just associates the term 'protagonist' with main character or someone who's important to the plot, or because otherwise that makes little sense to me either. Protagonists are normally more than just general good guys. They're characters that get special treatment when it comes to major development, and more focus and importance is put on their perspective, point of view and motives. I feel like it's hard to dedicate that much (equally) to Rey, Finn, Kylo, Poe and Rose without some getting more or less, but we'll see how it goes. But I am hoping that Rey Finn and Kylo get around the same treatment when it comes to general impact on the story.

    And he might interpret the term 'antagonist' as no more than a one-off villain who's past or motivations serve little to the plot (like Maul, Dooku and Grievous in the PT). They're basically just there to cause some trouble for the good guys, and to be killed off as well so the rest of us can move on. Kylo's obviously getting different treatment, which should be refreshing at least.

    Then again, during an interview with EW John stated that we'll learn more about Finn's past soon, hinting more at IX than in VIII (though we'll probably learn a little bit more about him). And now it seems we'll learn more about Kylo's motivation, Rey's parentage and a little bit of her and Luke's past (and how they connect). And Rose is also said to have a backstory she keeps hidden (presumably something about her family being affected by war or the NR).

    It's starting to feel a little packed. Hopefully it plays out well though, and none of the cool reveals feel rushed.
     
  12. Adept

    Adept Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Honestly, I think people are just letting fear get to them again. Yes Kylo Ren will be characterized and have screen time, so will Finn. Kylo Ren being redeemed is a little Iffy going by the actors comments about his status after TLJ but it's not impossible. Even if Kylo Ren is redeemed (and again I think people are leaping to that conclusion based on the OT...when this series may be looking to subvert those expectations) I just look at Marvel's 'Civil War' and stop worrying. Cap and Iron man were the driving force in that conflict....but the person who grew the most and ended up looking the most heroic out of ALL of them...was Black Panther. T'Challa spent the majority of that movie obsessed with Revenge...but by the end (When Tony and Steven are beating each other up) BP is the one to not only capture the man responsible for all this...but takes him in alive "The living are not done with you yet." So I see that, I see an excellent Origin story done for a character they could've just slapped in their real quick and then shown off in later film. Then I look at Finn, and see a character that got a good solid start in TFA, is clearly growing stronger in TLJ, with hints of his own backstory being dropped and I figure he's going to be just fine.

    Also, it's worth noting that TFA and Rogue one BOTH throttled back on the Jedi a LOT and even the Rebels series has made a point of showing what other people can do when they aren't trained by a Jedi. I mean even Kylo Ren was backed up by his Knights of Ren and none of those guys were packing a lightsaber...and they STILL garnered a lot of attention.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    And that's why it's important for Finn to do something new and fresh in IX other than generic storylines like being a Resistance agent who has a mission to destroy the next superweapon. SO many fans stick Finn into that storyline because they have no clue what else to do with his character. No one believes he'll be involved in the final battle against Snoke. I keep bringing up Han and Leia in RoTJ because their story went absolutely nowhere and I fear Finn is heading for the same fate. The Skywalker saga is about force users, it's always been that way. Which is why folks felt so strongly about that marketing misdirection involving Finn. But I think the plan from the very beginning was always to have Ben Solo as the male lead with the lightsaber taking on Snoke with the help of Rey. It is what it is.
     
    MGM and NooThe like this.
  14. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    Finn will most definitely be pivotal in the fight against the FO, but will his storyline be central. I highly doubt it.

    And when I say "central" I mean Obi-Wan in the PT. He wasn't the main character but he was still central to the main storyline of the PT. And since the Skywalker saga has always been driven by force users, I don't see Finn being central to the main plot in IX. That being said, Kylo will most definitely be involved in that central storyline with Rey, Luke and Snoke. Which is why Finn fans feel so strongly about the lightsaber misdirection.
     
    NooThe likes this.
  15. Adept

    Adept Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    I don't see that at all. The original plan was for a young girl to find her way in the world. Back before ROTJ was written that girl was going to be Luke's sister. Even now, Rey and Finn have been side by side since the very first piece of concept art.

    [​IMG]

    Kylo Ren is an interesting character, even JJ admitted to enjoying writing the villain, that doesn't mean it's all about him. His choice to join Snoke set this in motion, and it's the choices of Finn and Rey that have given the galaxy a chance to come back from Ben's monumental betrayal. Without Finn and Rey, this all would've ended in darkness, and going by what has been seen and what is rumored to come I don't see that changing.

    I should also point out that Kylo Ren began as nothing more than a way to separate the heroes. He wasn't even the child of Han and Leia when the Jedi Killer was first conceptualized. That came later....AFTER Kira and Sam were established.
     
  16. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    In no way am I saying Kylo will definitely be redeemed, but if he is, he'll be a Skywalker fighting against the enemy. Finn can't compete against that. Especially since this is the SKYWALKER SAGA.


    Kathleen Kennedy
    Adam Driver
    Rian Johnson
     
  17. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    i am not sure why people would expect rey and finn to take on snoke. if this were like the other stories, rey would probably have to protect finn from snoke. if he doesn't have the force, snoke could just destroy him. shoot lightening through him. invade his mind and rip it to shreds. when han raised his blaster against vader we saw how that went.

    the reason there can be no balance without the jedi is because these powerful darksiders are too powerful. vader was like the only one who could destroy sidious.
     
  18. Adept

    Adept Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Yes he can. Anakin was the Skywalker for the PT and he ended up losing everything and becoming the biggest monster in the galaxy. Kathleen has admitted that GL saw the Skywalker Saga ending at film 9, and that might just be what happens. Luke and Leia pass the torch to Finn and Rey, and Kylo Ends up dead, in exile or worse.

    Rey showing compassion is no surprise, it's what got her into this mess since she helped BB-8

    Well, Kylo Ren's decision not to bother Finn despite him showing clear non-conformity lead to the destruction of SKB and Kylo's first real defeat in six years. It wasn't good for Kylo but that choice was FANTASTIC for everyone else.

    You do know that Anakin had regrets after slaughtering the Tusken Raiders...and yet he did it again with the Jedi. Those kinds of scars don't always drive people to be better. Sometimes they rationalize things away. It's a very human thing to do.

    Kylo Ren was envisioned as a child gone wrong, and this fits with that. It's not proof of redemption or damnation, it just relates his concept to something many people have dealt with.

    I know your afraid Finn won't get what you think is due him, but I just don't see things as you do. I see him growing just like I knew he would, in TLJ and THAT gives me more hope for his character going forward. Yes this is the Skywalker Saga, but they are clearly working hard to ensure they have a well rounded caste with multiple protagonists and heroes. If they were really going to just ignore Finn he would be dead in TFA or at the very least he'd not be getting the kind of mission he is in TLJ. I know you don't like the 'Resistance Hero' angle, but that is a good place for him to be, as it keeps him in the action allows him to be active in solving problems and allows him a lot of chances to grow in his own arc. I mean we're getting information on his own family, something I KNOW a lot of people thought would never happen. Who knows HOW that will play into things going forward.
     
  19. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    I think Finn will grow and strengthen as well, but I don't think his story will be central to IX. It will be a pivotal role, but it won't be central. Basically he'll be more Han in RoTJ than Obi-Wan in the PT. Which makes sense given that the Skywalker saga is mainly about the force users. Rian has said that Kylo is basically the dual protagonist to Rey. Which is very similar to Anakin and Obi-Wan's dynamic in ROTS. I just don't see Finn being involved in the inevitable Snoke/Rey/Kylo/Luke confrontation in IX.
     
  20. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Honestly, you never know what they're really gonna do. JB's stated several times that he'd love to have Finn wield a lightsaber again, and now that he engages in possibly two duels in TLJ (and probably wins), that could easily be used as a set-up should they decide to reveal him as FS in IX (which is another reason I hope RJ sticks around because he seems open to John's feedback).

    But really though, suppose John really did mention the possibility of Finn being FS to RJ during their discussion? It would be great if Rian had him purposely engage in another duel to do him a favor or two moving forward. That way he could start of showing potential and making the idea more believable should they follow through with it. And we know he meets with Maz again, even if it is for a short time, you never know what they could decide to pull.
     
  21. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    i think that finn's core drama is how he was stolen from his parents (it seems) and assimilated into the FO. he had no choice is this and was subjected to years of brainwashing. if i was finn i'd be interested in the stormtrooper program and tearing it down for good.

    my take with snoke would be i don't wanna be anywhere near him because he's super powerful with the force and i don't have the force. it's like in TPM when maul shows up and padme wisely decided to take the long way. let the force users deal with the evil force user.

    also imagine if han was in the throne room at the end of ROTJ. then the emperor and vader could have used him against luke, making luke's situation more difficult rather than less. (that is after all why vader ordered his officers to bring luke's companions to him... he knows using luke's friends against him is the only possible key to turning him.)

    oh, but btw, one way to get finn in the conflict with snoke is just that--snoke is using him against rey.

    if finn is FS that's a whole new ball park.
     
  22. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    I'd be fine with Finn taking that path as well, whether or not he's Force Sensitive. Plus it would still have a major impact on Snoke's plans, and thus still affect the story in a significant way. I was just saying it would be cool if they decide to make him Force Sensitive, even if he doesn't become a Jedi which could make things even more interesting for him and allow him to still be an independent Force User (like Ahsoka even).

    And yeah, I don't really expect a huge confrontation between him and Snoke tbh, unless the way you mentioned with him basically tearing down Snoke's army right under his nose. That could still be big. But I feel like it would be cool to at least have some form of confrontation between him and Kylo again. They don't even need to fight, just another stare down from a distance amidst explosions or chaos would be enough for me.
     
    oncafar likes this.
  23. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    From day one I've been behind the idea of Finn leading a trooper revolt because it's something new and fresh for SW movies. Like you said, it would take Snoke down from underneath his nose. I just hope he does something interesting in IX other than repeating what he does in TLJ which is going on missions and blasting stormtroopers. That would be boring to see two movies in a row and would tell us Lucasfilm doesn't know what else to do with the character.
     
    NooThe and oncafar like this.
  24. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    the FO is just waiting to be dismantled from the bottom up imo. it deserves it lol.

    seriously it's like a powder keg. we have the stolen kids turned into soldiers. people only in it for themselves as leaders (phasma in particular). there's no loyalty but a lot of betrayal and things that could cause resentment and yes, revolt. i don't think it's held together nearly so well as the empire was.
     
    BlurryUFOs likes this.
  25. Tatooine Twilight Twins

    Tatooine Twilight Twins Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    I don't think so. And one of my main reasons for why is that this trilogy is still in need of a truly pivotal. threatening, central antagonist. As disappointing as Kylo came across to an extent in TFA he remains the only legit candidate the trilogy has in position for such a character. Snoke ain't gonna be that. He barely registered as a character in TFA and I'm not hearing much about him being some great force in TLJ. Besides I don't see Snoke getting Vader like minutes and treatment over the next two films but I can easily see Kylo getting that. I do not even take seriously the silly rumors that Luke will become the Big Bad. The notion is insulting. And I also don't see TPTB creating a new bad guy for TLJ or Ep. IX. Too late for that. Look, the guy who tortured people, murdered individuals, acted like a spoiled brat and most of all KILLED HAN SOLO is not going to become a main protagonist. Kylo already showed weakness in TFA, I feel TLJ will be his time to correct those problems and become a potentially much greater threat.

    Last of all if Kylo became a protagonist and took part of this struggle between the light and dark sides of The Force, the light side would be a little bit overpowered with him, Rey, Luke and possibly Leia. Even if you take away Leia that's still should be kinda of one-sided. Who fights alongside Snoke? The Knights of Ren? Big whoop.


    Wouldn't that go counter to the main reason why people feel Finn should not be a force user: that it would be taking away from Rey's uniqueness and story if there was another young force user fighting for the light side? Geez. Even I'm not that negative about where the story is heading like some of you guys are.

    I'm sorry but this is getting absurd. You think this was now some plan all along? First of all there appears to have barely been a plan. Second of all the studio from the beginning promoted Rey and Finn being the new lead heroes of the trilogy. JJ was quoted as saying this new trilogy was about a Boy and a girl" indicating that those two were Finn and Rey. And your scenario btw suggests a scenario in which the story even becomes more about Kylo and his redemption than it is about Rey. That's not going to take place.