ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

He’s the butt of the joke. I have a limit for how much I can stand characters to be the butts of jokes. Finn and Hux both far surpassed that limit in this movie.

 

Your response was that Finn is portayed as an idiot and a fool, and then proceeded to reference a comedy scene where he isn't an idiot or a fool.

 

What? I don’t know what you’re talking about. I have only specifically referenced one scene in this discussion, and Finn is portrayed as an idiot/fool for comedy in that scene.

 

I know which I only said you referenced one scene.

He isn't an idiot or a fool because he isn't acting like one. He's in a daze. That doesn't make one an idiot or a fool, even if it's funny.

 

Uh like I said, rationalize it how you want. He looks like a fool, but it’s just because he was in a daze!

 

I didn't really find the scene funny as I rarely am amused by slapstick, but I also didn't see Finn's stupid suit as reflecting on him.

 

I don't see why that is unreasonable. Better than interpreting him as being a fool.

 

Let’s put it this way. I don’t like that kind of humor. It’s a taste thing. I find it petty, immature, and not-funny. Once in a while, okay fine, but like I said, there’s a limit.

 

Neither do I. But it's a long way from that to 'Finns a fool'.

 

He was made to look like a fool. That was RJ’s choice for the scene. I take it for exactly what it is.

 

Okay? I know that's your view. I'm asking why you are making that negative assumption when you could assume he was dazed and therefore not a fool?

 

It’s not an assumption. Literally the point of the humor was that he looks ridiculous and isn’t that funny hahahha.

 

Again that doesn't make him a fool. That's my point. Do you think that anyone stumbling because they have woken up from intensive treatment and idiot and a fool?

 

I think RJ set Finn up to look ridiculous and like a fool and it was intentional because isn’t it fun to laugh at Finn. In real life would I think someone in that state looks like an idiot? No. If I was writing someone in that state, I wouldn’t treat them like an idiot and I wouldn’t set them up to be laughed at for it. That is, imho, in garbage taste.

 

Finn in that scene, and in general most of the time, is the best-ever audience surrogate in Star Wars, at least for me -- I'm always thinking, yep, that's the kind of dumb crap that would happen to *me* in the GFFA, and probably how I'd react. I like that about him, and that that quality's been given to an ex-Stormtrooper... when you think about it, Stormies have some pretty lousy luck.

 

guys.....are we really gonna act like the whole sequence where finn wakes up and stumbles around in his draws wasn't meant to be funny? If we're supposed to laugh at a character, or laugh at the expense of a character, then I'd say they are made to look foolish. I had been looking forward to seeing what finn is like when he wakes up. I was disappointed that they went for comedy again. Anyways, the shot when poe looks up and see's finn dragging about in the bacta suit seems to drive the point home that "lol here's our boy finn. So goofy.". A laugh is cool, but I don't like it when it subs in for drama.

 

Finn didn't have to bump his head on the glass to get across the point that he was in a daze.

Finn didn't have to fall off the bed to get across the point that he was in a daze.

As we see later on in the scene with Finn wandering around the halls of the ship in a confused state is the PERFECT way to show that he was in a daze.

Rian wanted the audience to laugh AT finn the second he's introduced.

 

And it's not like they had Leia wake up from her coma in a similar state

 

When I watched TFA the audience laughed when Rey & BB8 attacked Finn and I was like "??? It's necessary?". Finn is constantly being used as comic relief and in Force of Destiny he accidentally activated a bomb in the Falcon but Rey and Chewie saved them

 

I still don’t get why it is that Finn being funny is seen as inherently bad?

 

The humor being used for this character veering more toward slapstick is where the issue is. Poe's humor is more like Han where he gets to TELL the jokes. But with the Finn, he doesn't really tell any jokes. His humor comes from falling down, being tasered, or any other slapstick humor where the audience are meant to laugh AT Finn, not with him.

 

I disagree to some extent

 

Finn does kind of fill the "comic relief" character slot. Whereas Rey is the more serious character.

I don't really know how to look at this. One of the examples on the linked page is Darcy in the Thor movies. Darcy is more of a comic relief than Finn is in that she really doesn't do anything. She can run small errands for Jane (though her chances of screwing it up are good) or can be kind of an idiot.

Finn's character adds moments that lighten the mood but he isn't as much of a comic relief as some characters are. Finn also is a bit of a sidekick sort of character.

I personally hate the comic relief character type in general because it's a character that is usually abused not only by the other characters but by the story itself. It's like the "omega position" in a wolf pack.

If Finn were white I feel like people would be objecting less to his character. Since Finn is black, the comic relief and sidekick elements to the character are seen as diminishing black people. I think this is because in human social dynamics the sort of "sidekick" role or "comic relief" role (e.g. class clown) are not roles of respect. Humans naturally form social hierarchies and if one looks at groups of high school kids there will often be someone in the group who is the "omega" one--the butt of jokes, blamed for things, etc. There will sometimes be a "sidekick" role - the best friend of the group leader (for instance). The other issue is that using black characters as comic relief or sidekicks is a common stereotype for black characters.

Finn's role isn't primarily a comic relief role though. Both Hux and Kylo are more comic relief than Finn is in TLJ.

I just personally hate the comic relief role in general, but I also know it arises in human social dynamics naturally, which is why it shows up in film.

In general, it's not that Finn is supposed to be comic relief. It's that he is supposed to be funny. And the character who had a similar role in the OT was Han. Luke and Leia share looks between them about Han's reckless brave stupidity more than once throughout the trilogy. Finn actually isn't even as reckless and stupid as Han can be (e.g. when Han decided to chase all the storm troopers on the Death Star). Han is a more outrageous personality that people have to learn to deal with. Finn is a more respectful and thoughtful person.

I think Finn's character was largely based on Han? He's supposed to be the Han-type in some ways. His character would have been that even if a white actor was selected.

 

Just look at any character in Thor Ragnarok.

They're all used for slapstick humor but at the same time ALL of them SAY jokes themselves. Finn doesn't SAY a single joke in TLJ. Come to think of it, I don't think he says any jokes in TFA. All his humor comes from how awkward and clumsy he is. There's nothing wrong with a character with humor, it just depends how you use that humor.