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TFA TLJ John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Momotaros, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 23, 2015
    He’s the butt of the joke. I have a limit for how much I can stand characters to be the butts of jokes. Finn and Hux both far surpassed that limit in this movie.
     
  2. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 23, 2011
    Your response was that Finn is portayed as an idiot and a fool, and then proceeded to reference a comedy scene where he isn't an idiot or a fool.
     
  3. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 23, 2015
    What? I don’t know what you’re talking about. I have only specifically referenced one scene in this discussion, and Finn is portrayed as an idiot/fool for comedy in that scene.
     
  4. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 23, 2011
    I know which I only said you referenced one scene.

    He isn't an idiot or a fool because he isn't acting like one. He's in a daze. That doesn't make one an idiot or a fool, even if it's funny.
     
  5. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 23, 2015
    Uh like I said, rationalize it how you want. He looks like a fool, but it’s just because he was in a daze!
     
    JediAce1 likes this.
  6. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 10, 2017
    I didn't really find the scene funny as I rarely am amused by slapstick, but I also didn't see Finn's stupid suit as reflecting on him.
     
  7. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 23, 2011
    I don't see why that is unreasonable. Better than interpreting him as being a fool.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  8. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 23, 2015
    Let’s put it this way. I don’t like that kind of humor. It’s a taste thing. I find it petty, immature, and not-funny. Once in a while, okay fine, but like I said, there’s a limit.
     
  9. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 23, 2011

    Neither do I. But it's a long way from that to 'Finns a fool'.
     
  10. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 23, 2015
    He was made to look like a fool. That was RJ’s choice for the scene. I take it for exactly what it is.
     
  11. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 23, 2011
    Okay? I know that's your view. I'm asking why you are making that negative assumption when you could assume he was dazed and therefore not a fool?
     
  12. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 23, 2015
    It’s not an assumption. Literally the point of the humor was that he looks ridiculous and isn’t that funny hahahha.
     
  13. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 23, 2011

    Again that doesn't make him a fool. That's my point. Do you think that anyone stumbling because they have woken up from intensive treatment and idiot and a fool?
     
  14. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 23, 2015
    I think RJ set Finn up to look ridiculous and like a fool and it was intentional because isn’t it fun to laugh at Finn. In real life would I think someone in that state looks like an idiot? No. If I was writing someone in that state, I wouldn’t treat them like an idiot and I wouldn’t set them up to be laughed at for it. That is, imho, in garbage taste.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  15. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 26, 2017
    Finn in that scene, and in general most of the time, is the best-ever audience surrogate in Star Wars, at least for me -- I'm always thinking, yep, that's the kind of dumb crap that would happen to *me* in the GFFA, and probably how I'd react. I like that about him, and that that quality's been given to an ex-Stormtrooper... when you think about it, Stormies have some pretty lousy luck.
     
  16. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 25, 2015
    guys.....are we really gonna act like the whole sequence where finn wakes up and stumbles around in his draws wasn't meant to be funny? If we're supposed to laugh at a character, or laugh at the expense of a character, then I'd say they are made to look foolish. I had been looking forward to seeing what finn is like when he wakes up. I was disappointed that they went for comedy again. Anyways, the shot when poe looks up and see's finn dragging about in the bacta suit seems to drive the point home that "lol here's our boy finn. So goofy.". A laugh is cool, but I don't like it when it subs in for drama.
     
  17. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 8, 2014
    Finn didn't have to bump his head on the glass to get across the point that he was in a daze.

    Finn didn't have to fall off the bed to get across the point that he was in a daze.

    As we see later on in the scene with Finn wandering around the halls of the ship in a confused state is the PERFECT way to show that he was in a daze.

    Rian wanted the audience to laugh AT finn the second he's introduced.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  18. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Yeah, I have to agree with the assessment that Finn walking around in his punctured Bacta suit is meant to be more a case of us laughing *at* him and him doing something embarrassing and foolish because of his state than it is any things else. I mean, Finn's literally walking around in an obnoxiously oversized medical unit in what amounts to his underwear, while leaking, and the film is treating it as a funny moment. Boyega tries to give the scene some gravity with his immediate questioning of where Rey is, but otherwise, we're meant to laugh at this heroic soldier's ignorance of his status.

    It comes off as foolish and demeaning in part because of what the alternatives could be. We know Finn was supposed to initially be reintroduced as a gunner with Paige Tico, reliving a bloody handprint scene. That's dramatic and resonant with the character's heroic moments. There's also the fact that just playing Finn's awakening more seriously feels like to would be ripe with drama; imagine Finn shooting to awareness as he does, being disoriented as he is, but rising without the suit still attached, maybe feeling his freshly healed spine, and having his scene contained to a chaotic medical bay.

    Not to say that Finn can't be funny is a somewhat foolish way and it not be justified; TFA gave Finn sequences of similar overplayed bravado to the TLJ meeting with Rose. The difference is that TFA then gave Finn a strong, heroic dramatic arc that made his funny moments endearing traits on an altruistic hero who goes from simple conscientious deserter to daring guile hero willing to charge an unbeaten opponent to save his friend. TLJ, by delivering such an underwhelming Finn storyline, and by portraying him a s more childlike than Rose throughout most of Canto Bight's scenes, does make him feel more like minor comic relief than a major hero. The flatness of the fight with Phasma doesn't help, since we're not invested in the short fight that Finn only wins because of lucky elevator timing.

    In effect, because Finn's stuck in a convuluted and ultimately impotent and choppy arc, the comedy seems to serve a greater function to the final film by adding levity than what dramatic arcs made it past the chopping block. Thus, it's possible for someone thrilled and engaged with TFA Finn as an Everyman hero to find him more a court jester here than anything else.
     
    Ren Kylo, Kurenai24, Hypatia and 3 others like this.
  19. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 5, 2016
    And it's not like they had Leia wake up from her coma in a similar state
     
  20. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 28, 2016
    When I watched TFA the audience laughed when Rey & BB8 attacked Finn and I was like "??? It's necessary?". Finn is constantly being used as comic relief and in Force of Destiny he accidentally activated a bomb in the Falcon but Rey and Chewie saved them
     
  21. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 3, 2014
    I still don’t get why it is that Finn being funny is seen as inherently bad?
     
  22. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 8, 2014
    The humor being used for this character veering more toward slapstick is where the issue is. Poe's humor is more like Han where he gets to TELL the jokes. But with the Finn, he doesn't really tell any jokes. His humor comes from falling down, being tasered, or any other slapstick humor where the audience are meant to laugh AT Finn, not with him.
     
  23. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 3, 2014
    I disagree to some extent
     
  24. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 10, 2017
    Finn does kind of fill the "comic relief" character slot. Whereas Rey is the more serious character.

    I don't really know how to look at this. One of the examples on the linked page is Darcy in the Thor movies. Darcy is more of a comic relief than Finn is in that she really doesn't do anything. She can run small errands for Jane (though her chances of screwing it up are good) or can be kind of an idiot.

    Finn's character adds moments that lighten the mood but he isn't as much of a comic relief as some characters are. Finn also is a bit of a sidekick sort of character.

    I personally hate the comic relief character type in general because it's a character that is usually abused not only by the other characters but by the story itself. It's like the "omega position" in a wolf pack.

    If Finn were white I feel like people would be objecting less to his character. Since Finn is black, the comic relief and sidekick elements to the character are seen as diminishing black people. I think this is because in human social dynamics the sort of "sidekick" role or "comic relief" role (e.g. class clown) are not roles of respect. Humans naturally form social hierarchies and if one looks at groups of high school kids there will often be someone in the group who is the "omega" one--the butt of jokes, blamed for things, etc. There will sometimes be a "sidekick" role - the best friend of the group leader (for instance). The other issue is that using black characters as comic relief or sidekicks is a common stereotype for black characters.

    Finn's role isn't primarily a comic relief role though. Both Hux and Kylo are more comic relief than Finn is in TLJ.

    I just personally hate the comic relief role in general, but I also know it arises in human social dynamics naturally, which is why it shows up in film.

    In general, it's not that Finn is supposed to be comic relief. It's that he is supposed to be funny. And the character who had a similar role in the OT was Han. Luke and Leia share looks between them about Han's reckless brave stupidity more than once throughout the trilogy. Finn actually isn't even as reckless and stupid as Han can be (e.g. when Han decided to chase all the storm troopers on the Death Star). Han is a more outrageous personality that people have to learn to deal with. Finn is a more respectful and thoughtful person.

    I think Finn's character was largely based on Han? He's supposed to be the Han-type in some ways. His character would have been that even if a white actor was selected.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  25. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 8, 2014
    Just look at any character in Thor Ragnarok.

    They're all used for slapstick humor but at the same time ALL of them SAY jokes themselves. Finn doesn't SAY a single joke in TLJ. Come to think of it, I don't think he says any jokes in TFA. All his humor comes from how awkward and clumsy he is. There's nothing wrong with a character with humor, it just depends how you use that humor.