main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

  2. The Boards Are Now Reopened For Business:

    READ THIS: your ability to post here depends upon it.. See the new rules thread here. Bans can and will be handed out to anyone who doesn't abide by the forum rules.

TFA TLJ John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Momotaros, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    You have to give it to Rian though, thats some amazing writing.

    He made Kylo heroic by killing Snoke and saving Rey , made him THE big bad , and still got sympathy for his character , all in one movie.

    If only he wrote rest of the characters the same way with such dedication.
     
  2. BlurryUFOs

    BlurryUFOs Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2016
    agree. me and a lot of people have been quick to say johnson just doesn’t care about this character and i don’t think that’s quite true. Boyega said in an interview that finn would need some help getting mobile again and that he and kylo went on a parallel journey. so he wrote a better arc but when it was a choice between finn and kylo’s or rey’s scenes on the chopping block, well we know. i think we have the bare bones of finn’s arc
     
  3. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    This is my main issue with the film. TLJ is a great vehicle for Adam Driver to show off his amazing talent but all the other actors/characters around him got the short shrift.
     
  4. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Well we know parts of Finn's story got cut, especially onboard the Supremacy.

    We know Rey's third lesson from Luke got cut.

    Did any known Kylo scenes get cut?
     
  5. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    I dont know man may be.

    They are keeping kylo's story a secret before people actually get to see it in theatres.

    I mean we pretty much knew what Finn, Poe, Rose, Rey were upto through the marketing spoilers.

    I doubt we will see deleted scenes regarding Kylo.
     
  6. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Beyond that, if Johnson's initial Finn-as-gunner intro scene is the one we see in that BTS video, than it may be that Finn's story is also suffering from being rewritten and reshot. It's entirely possible that Johnson's intial complete cut featured totally different Finn scenes, or at least context behind them, and Johnson determined that to save time, he'd have to cut so much of those out that he'd crippled his original story for the character, leading to the rushed and fairly shallow nature of the scenes that are in the film.

    Consider:

    - Finn as gunner may have featured some character moments beyond the intial repitition of the bloody handprint scene; there may have been some sequences with Paige, showing him (masked) cooperating with her to establish a rapport before she dies. There may also have been some kind of interaction with Poe from this scene; I'm just guessing because that would follow naturally and the newer intro quickly puts the two back together.
    - We know that initially, Finn and Rose were supposed to dress up and hob nob around Canto Bight. This may mean that the whole sequence was initially very long, too long to survive a time saving cut,a no thus we get the frustrating scene in the regular film. This almost certainly would have given us more development on Rose and Finn's relationship, and I'd bet money that Johnson's writing would be less clunky and more engaging if they had more time in that context.
    - Considering how early we heard about the Stormtroopers scenes, it may be that was initially a highlight of the arc, again being excised entirely when time became an issue. Since a lot of us feel this was where the meat would be in Finn's arc, it may very well be the section Johnson most regrets.

    And I'd argue the first and third possibilities would recontextualize the charge at the battering ram cannon for the better. If we see Finn lose a Resistance companion in his arms and then lose more Stormtrooper buddies, than his wrath becomes far more believable. That alone may make that scene more believable
     
  7. Kurenai24

    Kurenai24 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2017
    I think that's true; as a writer Rian should know context is key; a lot of context was missing for Finn, and I think other scenes could have been cut, the your momma joke (most of the jokes), the milking, shirtless Kylo, the freeing of creatures, probably even more if I ever force myself to watch a second time.

    At the end of the day the character that suffered the most is Finn, I can't in good conscious say Rian cares about Finn when half the scenes cut not only benefited Finn but gave him character development, I can't in good concious say Rian cares about Finn when there were scenes that felt menial in comparison to those cut Finn scenes. I can't in good conscious say Rian cares about Finn when he hardly talked about the character during interviews which along with the lack of Finn in the marketing had the Finn fans from tumblr going after Rian and Star Wars. And last, I can't in good concious say Rian cares about Finn when Rian won't shut up about TLJ, he's either defending, explaining, or backtracking the things he did in his movie but he can't seemingly fix his mouth to defend or explain the universally disliked Canto Bight scenes and how it benefits Finn and Rose, the closet we get of him mentioning those scenes is when talks about the overall theme of the movie which was "failure".

    It's the little things that count and Rian has done very little to show he cares about Finn, yes he had ideas for Finn and even filmed the scenes but he cut them and in an interview somewhere when asked about a director's cut, he said everything in the movie is the director's cut ...so all those scenes he had to cut not being in the movie doesn't matter to him is what he's essentially saying b/c a director's cut is an edited version of a film that represents the director's own approved edit.

    Even though Rian was joking, sometimes I think maybe Finn would have benefited being in a coma throughout this movie, I mean it's not the like the new "trio" spent any time together developing their relationship, and Finn's storyline is a rehash of TFA so it's not like he had character development in this movie.

    *shrugs*
     
  8. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Yeah that was one of the dumbest parts of the film. I also love the part about Rose nearly getting them both killed (also he had to carry her comatose butt across miles of open ground despite being exhausted himself and hopefully not get shot) with her little stunt, and the she gets to make the self-righteous speak, yeah no movie no.

    And also yes, BB-8 truly is the most competent hero of them all. HE should be the new leader, he'd actually get things done.
     
    Shadao, 2Cleva, Hypatia and 2 others like this.
  9. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    The saddest thing here : unlike the leaking bacta-suit or the chips machine-gun, you can't forget it because it is key to the plot.

    Without that event, no DJ, no betrayal and no Battle of Crait ! It is factually correct to say :
    "Luke Skywalker died because of a parking infraction".

    I just can't find the words to express how much this infuriates me.

    It wasn't a rehash, it was a parody :
    _TFA was about how his choice to stay and fight allowed the destruction of SKB.
    _TLJ was about how his choice to stay and fight got everybody killed ... just because of a parking infraction [insert random rant, insult or scream here].
     
  10. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    We have just posted a new rules and policy thread. Everyone should take a look:
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...es-and-policies-thread-2018-edition.50048371/

    This part in particular:

    Make no mistake from here on out the staff here will be vigilant and absolutely unforgiving in its enforcement of this rule. Above all else these forums are meant to be a fun place to discuss Star Wars but for far too long they've been little more than a cesspool. No more. If you want to rant endlessly about how awful the films were or if you refuse to here any kind of criticism about them I only have one thing to say... go get your own blog and post there. If you wish to engage in constructive conversation that remain respectful of one another then please stay here. There is no middle ground. This is how it's going to be. To paraphrase a certain campaign slogan... We're Gonna Make the Forums Fun Again!
     
  11. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    You said "here" instead of "hear"
     
    afrojedi likes this.
  12. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
  13. starfish

    starfish Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    hear! hear!
     
    afrojedi and cerealbox like this.
  14. Kurenai24

    Kurenai24 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Hmm...
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    2Cleva and GauntGrandMoff like this.
  15. MrElculver2424

    MrElculver2424 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2014
    One of the biggest disappointments of TLJ is Finn's nonexistent character arc. In TFA he goes from wanting to run away to wanting to stay and fight, and then in TLJ he literally treads the same exact territory again...at first wanting to run away and then wanting to stay and fight. There was zero character development whatsoever. Even the DJ sequence where Finn learned that it's all a machine served zero purpose, since Finn tosses it aside and returns to helping the Resistance fight.

    The scene where he was going to sacrifice himself to save the Resistance by flying into the cannon was good (even though it makes no sense that none of the AT-M6s shot him while he was the only speeder left). Would've been a good end to his character despite the lack of development. But that entire moment was ruined by Rose somehow defying all logic and getting far enough in front of Finn to make a 90 degree turn and crash into him. How did she know she wouldn't kill them both? It made zero sense on Rose's part...one of the stupidest decisions in all of Star Wars. Her line of "Not by fighting what we hate, by saving what we love" makes zero sense. Doesn't she understand what's going on here? Her sister died saving the Resistance. Finn was going to do the same thing. Finn WAS going to save what they love. Rose has the intelligence of a 2 year old, apparently. Not to forget that she then kisses Finn as the door to the base is blown open in the background. What pathetic nonsense for such a promising character coming out of TFA to sink down to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
    FN-2187, Shadao, Sgt. Carver and 3 others like this.
  16. Mungo Baobab

    Mungo Baobab Woefully whimsical Whill of New Films star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    This isn't constructive criticism. If you want to vent like this, take it to the Sanctuary thread.
     
    MrElculver2424 likes this.
  17. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    The scene was completely pointless since we never even hear Finn's stance on the subject. They never follow up on that scene. Why the hell was it in the movie?
     
  18. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I understand the scene in terms of RJ describing this movie as “blurring the lines between good and evil” before it’s release. That DJ scene is the only scene in the entire movie that really attempts to do that for me. But I definitely don’t get the point of it specifically to Finn’s arc. Finn’s reaction was essentially mine - that’s pretty academic at this point. In other words, it’s irrelevant to what was happening.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    Shadao, FN-2187, 11-4D and 5 others like this.
  19. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    FN-2187, Sgt. Carver and JediAce1 like this.
  20. 11-4D

    11-4D Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Deleted scene with Finn and Phasma. We were robbed.
     
  21. modaubr

    modaubr Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2016
    That's not a robbery, that's more like Fort Knox plundering.
    I mean, RJ, seriously ?
     
    La Calavera and Ryanpaulstewart like this.
  22. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    [​IMG]
     
  23. Ryanpaulstewart

    Ryanpaulstewart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    There's a rule that we can't use profanity, correct?

    For the record, I'm cursing up a storm right now. My coworkers are confused.

    That would have been such a classic SW moment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    La Calavera, Shadao and modaubr like this.
  24. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Wow. They cut Finn's showdown with Phasma but still found room for a poorly lit, space-horse chase through corn fields.
     
  25. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    And Luke milking an ugly alien seems to be more important