ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

So Kylo doesn't know Finn is alive?

 

...what?

 

That's from the junior novel and RJ was not involved in the creation of it. He was only working with JF on the senior novel, and that was never mentioned in the senior novel. I don't think Finn was ever mentioned or thought of during any of their connections, so whether Kylo knows Finn is alive or not, is unclear.

 

Of course RJ is involved in the creation of everything TLJ related. It's all based on his script, well before the final edit. His script had all kinds of dumb triangle references that were thankfully edited out.

 

It's not in the senior novel that we know RJ worked on, so I'll trust that one slightly more, but that's just me. I just think that Kogge had a bit more "freedom" to write and it shows. I know JF thought some of the deleted scenes was better reserved for his friend Kogge's junior novel, but not sure RJ had any direct input to Kogge's writing.

 

Rian: "This moment, my goal with this moment was if we can make the audience, even for a split second, think, “Oh, my God, Finn is actually going to have a heroic death here.” Like for real. If you could actually buy that even for a moment, then I thought that would be a pretty incredible moment.

And the feeling of relief when Rose comes in and kind of saves the day with it, would just be immense and really powerful.

And also would just show how far John’s come with his character over the course of this movie.

He’s gone from getting in the escape pod to genuinely being ready to make the ultimate sacrifice for the good guys." link

 

"Ren Laughed" Yep, definitely classic Ren right, straight out of Rian's script .

 

Just to add quick levity in the movie.

Like in Black Panther, why show a few seconds of Ulysses Klaue singing "what is love....baby don't hurt me ...no more."

It's just a few seconds to give the general audience a laugh. Not every minute little second detail has to be for continuity or story purposes.

 

Oh I get it, reylo fans don't like the junior novel because Kylo isn't wooby enough. That wasn't what I was talking about. I'm not someone you need to convince when it comes to the worthlessness of the novels in terms of understanding the movie. I only made the point that of course RJ was involved because the writers interpreted his script. This particular author took RJ's script, full of dumb triangles, and made the villain super scary fantasizing about the boy he's jealous of dying. Gripping.

Sure, people just discuss the priorities of RJ in choosing which scenes add value. I personally think this scene was in poor taste, and my opinion there has zero to do with putting levity in a SW movie lol, hence I find the trade-off of this scene for scenes we lost revealing of RJ's taste.

 

No it's just that Kylo never laughs. Not even cracks a smile.

 

Anyone else notice how, with the Reylo romance, Rey is effectively treated like a prize for Kylo's redemption, while with FinnRey it's really just that it feels more natural?

 

Finn and Rey are certainly healthier and more supportive. It may be that’s the point in the end. In traditional triangle terms he’s obviously the safer, nice guy choice.

In the Reylo world I’m guessing Finn is basically the equivalent of Team Jacob and Ben Solo is the equivalent or Team Edward. Having said that, I know nothing about vampires or warewolves or the intricacies of the dynamic that made those stories some of the most talked about and largest sellers of all fiction in 08/09 and I’m just basing that off my general impression that Jacob was seen as the more safe and supportive and healthier relationship if she wanted one. And that Edward was the more toxic one.

 

Rey is treated as a prize by both shipping fandoms, lets not pretend. I would argue that, after TLJ, Rey and Kylo are on equal footing in terms of power BUT...she wears the pants in the "relationship", she has the moral high ground for now. She earned those pants after she refused his manipulation. Granted, as Rian stated, Kylo was being manipulative and its unhealthy, but he was being sincere and the appeal was from his heart.
So from the way their interactions ended in TLJ, if there is anything for Kylo in terms of feelings from Rey in IX, he has to earn it. And IF he does earn it in a big way, i see nothing wrong with her returning his feelings and a healthy relationship between equals can start. In that scenario i wouldn't think she would be his prize, both would be each others prize, if that makes sense.

I think Finn and Rey can be romantic partners ofcourse, but it would be a unbalanced romance, Rey after TLJ is on a very different path than TFA (a demigod in the SW universe in a sense), a different person. He is not her equal and that is not healthy for him, there can be many situations were he can't understand her or what she is going thru.

 

I feel this so hard, even as a TLJ fan. I remember when it came out that Finn was infiltrating the FO everyone assumed automatically that this is what that sequence of the movie would be about since it just makes so much sense for the character and also feels really obvious? Instead in the movie Finn exchanges hardly a word with Hux and Phasma, except in a deleted scene. We never see any fear or anticipation on his part concerning what he's about to do, when it really should be there! This whole "are the FO reaaally the bad guys?" angle on it just doesn't resonate because throughout TFA Finn has no doubt just how bad the FO is, he just doesn't necessarily see the point in trying to fight. He'd rather run, and I like that RJ wanted to pick up this thread but he did it in such an vague and underwhelming way.

I get what RJ was trying to do with Finn's arc but the emotional thrust just simply isn't there. It's why his almost-sacrifice at the end is so underwhelming. IMO it's actually a well executed scene on its own but in the context of the movie it just feels so unearned. It's like RJ knew what he wanted to do with the character and had a nice "ending point" for him in this movie but just had no idea how to write to it.

I really like TLJ unlike most ppl on this thread, for me it has the highest highs in SW but the lows are just so disappointing. Everything about Finn's arc in TLJ feels like a missed opportunity.

 

So basically what you're saying is force users should only hook up with other force users.

 

No i think just these two in particular, since the movie makes it clear they are beings of great power in the force in addition to their similar emotional traumas.
I guess it would be ideal for a Jedi to look for romance in another Jedi...but heck until now Jedi shunned romance entirely, so its uncharted territory (probably why they are leaning on Kylo and Rey).

 

You do realize that both major relationships in the previous two trilogies were between a force sensitive and non-force sensitive, right?

 

Exactly, and how did Anakin and Padme turned out ?
And how did Han's relationship with his son turn out ? (the Empire novels give some clues into that)

I believe this is what they are playing at with Kylo and Rey in this trilogy....assuming they follow thru with it. Its basically "What would happen if Padme was a Jedi ?"

 

And why would things turn out differently if they were force sensitive? Like, Anakin's fall has very little to do with anything Padme herself does and is mostly about him, and it starts with a nightmare about her dying in childbirth. If anything, considering why we know how she died, if she was force sensitive it could be worse, depending on how powerful their bond was. And, with the Han thing, well, I mean, one how is it that Han's fault? And two...you do realize Leia is a force user, right?

 

Han and Leia was married for decades and just "split up" after Kylo became a murder (in Poe's comics Leia still talks with Han shortly before TFA). Leia is FS but Han isn't

 

Beat some sense into them. Or don't reach a point were you get force choked. Then theres the whole feeling of eachother's thoughts.
And again, what went wrong between Han, Leia and their son wasn't Leia, it was Han, he was the Padme in the trio, the one who didn't have the intimate connection to his wife and kid.

This is illustrated in Kylo's encounter with both parents. In TFA Han pleads with him, he is torn, but still theres nothing deeper than Han's words to pull at him.
In TLJ Kylo faces the same situation with Leia, he is torn but Leia's connection with him stops him in his tracks.

 

I find it very unappealing, the idea that Rey would reject Finn, the one who wanted to protect her from the very beginning and understands her loneliness and cares for her regardless of her powers, and decide that Kylo, the guy who has the creepy text-book toxic and manipulative obsession with her as if he's the first person to totally understand her (considering he's also the person who gloats over injuring Finn).

The novel just showed that Kylo was completely unrepentant in his actions and just wanted Rey (regardless of whoever else got hurt in the process).

I think that Finn deserves a better storyline than being cast aside and treated like garbage (like he was in TLJ by pretty much everyone).

 

While Luke visibly grimaced and milk disgustingly dripped down his beard. It was gratuitously gross for no real reason that to be that way.