ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

Wasn't boyega wrapping up stuff on Pacific Rim? If I remember correctly, there was a reason he wasn't there.

 

Maybe it was referring to the Phasma rematch since he wins?

 

No. Pacific Rim 2's filming was completed in March 30 last year

 

That's clearly how you get promoted in that organisation : just look at Poe...

 

Boyega said that "Finn ain't playing around anymore" and kept showing images of him bulking up for the movie on his social media pages.

Wow, did those teases not end up amounting to much.

 

Its been quoted back to him more than a few times on his instagram.

 

Happy birthday, JB.

 

In fairness to JB, RJ edited his storyline to the bare bones. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but his confrontation with Phasma would've been a TLJ standout. Canto Bight would've been stronger... etc. At the end of production, JB probably felt he'd shot some good stuff for the film... then snip, snip, snip.

 

Is the director's commentary on the digital release? Is there any commentary on the Finn scenes?

 

Just like the last time with the lightsaber. Fool me once...

 

http://metro.co.uk/2018/03/24/john-...flight-tokyo-together-ultimate-bants-7413315/

 

Yeah...so...John Boyega and Charlie Day are the only salvageable things about Pacific Rim 2. I honestly feel like most of you on here felt about TLJ (which I still love btw). PR 2 is godawful.

 

PR1 was terrible too.

 

@godisawesome The way I see it, Finn is treated more like a lead in TFA than he was in TLJ. We see things from his pov and he's allowed to react to them. He's allowed to make his own choices and it doesn't feel like he was forced into taking on any role. Unlike TLJ where no one ever listens to him, Poe tells him "he's where he belongs" when Finn is trying to tell him otherwise. Rose constantly "zaps" him into place and belittles him, and at the end of the day, he's suddenly for the Resistance without us getting a satisfying scene of him deciding for himself to be about them.

If TFA, he lost fights. I get that. He was very vulnerable, JJ and John both acknowledged that. But you at least got the sense that it was building towards something. People were actively speculating on what his role would be in the next film. Why have a character fail for any other reason besides a profound growth later on? The parallels between his fight vs Kylo and Luke v Vader in ESB were glaringly obvious. He was also given appreciation and admiration by Rey, Han, Poe, Leia. All of them thanked him and valued him onscreen, and we saw it and we believed it.

The Resistance needed his help, and he gave them knowledge that only HE had. He made the plan to lower the shields which allowed the Resistance to have a chance at all, which helped saved the day. He found and protected Rey, who wouldn't have escaped SKB on her own considering it was on lock-down and flooded with Stormtroopers. And even if she avoided the stormtroopers, Kylo would've knocked her out and taken her to Snoke. He protected her and "sacrificed himself to save her" as the Stormtrooper book states.

So in TFA, we saw Finn's growth from start to finish. He was very human and vulnerable, but he still felt like a lead, even if it was the underdog in a way. Without him, the story wouldn't have happened, and Rey, Leia, Han, Poe, etc all would've been killed without him. And again, he felt like the underdog who was gonna be wayy stronger in the following stories to further highlight his strength.

At the end of the day, most people still considered him to be the other main protagonist.

Compare that to TLJ, and Rian failed him completely. He got pushed around, never had a moment to himself, couldn't make his own decisions, almost saved the day but wasn't allowed to do that, and of course had to wait to be saved in the end. Not a good comparison, and not what i was hoping for when I rooted for the underdog. He felt like a "token" or an "add on" that Rian HAD to include, but probably wouldn't have if he didn't have to. Rian clearly only cared about giving Kylo (his co-lead) an interesting story and revolving everyone else's arcs around him, no matter how nonsensical and stupid it was.

 

While I prefer Finn in TFA, and felt JJ and LK appear to have taken more joy in presenting the character, I have to agree with your buddy. In TFA Finn does function as a secondary protagonist, but his story is largely wrapped up in Rey. In TLJ he's afforded a subplot all his own that, while initially driven by his connection to Rey, eventually expands beyond his once singular focus on her. He has his own leading lady in Rose, his own support character in DJ, the new R2 is his droid sidekick, and the culmination of his battle with his own antagonist in Phasma. It says something that in a film that spreads the wealth far more than TFA, with Finn losing over 10 minutes in screen time, he's still among the top 3, but this time without Rey. It speaks volumes that Finn didn't need Rey to still sit in the top 3 for screentime in TLJ.

And I don't think Finn is a "token" in either film. As a black man myself I get the term all too well, and sadly could name you dozens of token characters of color, but I actually find it insulting in the context of this ST to throw that label on to JB/Finn. He's not used in a "token" way whatsoever.

 

I mentioned this in the sanctuary but it applies here as well. In The Director and Jedi, RJ explicitly describes conceptualizing Rose’s character around a nerdy girl from high school stereotype. I think this informs his conceptualization of Finn (Rose’s de facto sidekick), who he saw as a cool/dumb jock stereotype who needs a smarter and more “real” character to bring him down to earth and think through ideas that are too complex for him. If you have access to the documentary I'd highly recommend revisiting this part, it starts at the around the 20min mark.

 

@godisawesome I agree with your friend. I don't impact on the plot is as important as character growth and change is. Finn and Rey were both very generic in TFA to me. The only thing I found interesting about them is what the actors brought with them to the roles they played with the chemistry their friendship created. That's why they were worried when they got the script for TLJ because they were separated and they would not have their easy chemistry to fall back on, but RJ pushed all the actors more than they were expecting. I understood Finn in TFA because there wasn't much below the surface to grasp. He has less agency in tlj, the same way Rey practically had no agency in TFA. But his contrast with the characters that take away his agency, Poe and Rose, offer glimpses into who he is when he pushes back against their statements and plans. Rose's combative personality, made more fierce due to her sister dying for the Resistance, helps shape his belief and ideas outside of Rey and living to die another day. We see him be tempted by the decadent lifestyle of Canto Bight and being seduced to caring only about himself at the expense of everyone else by DJ. I didn't know those traits were in Finn before TLJ and when he rejects those impulses to stay and fight I like him a lot more. Finn and Poe( and Rey in a more subtle way) have to learn to give up some of their agency when they are serving a higher purpose. Finn finds a purpose when he sees the power of tfo beyond it's military might. Finn is a hero to the Resistance, but he didn't do what he did in TFA for them, he did it for Rey. In tlj he is willing to die without ever seeing Rey again because he actually believes in fighting back and not running. He also puts Rey's protection in someone else's hand which is a big step for him. He goes from caring about himself to caring about Rey in TFA. He goes from just caring about Rey to wanting to help the galaxy against tfo. Plus everything @jaqen said, as a black male I have seen characters treated a lot worse. For a long while, I sorta kinda felt he was a little token in TFA, but I just think some of his line delivery rubbed me the wrong way and he came off a little side-kicky. I don't like his american accent in the SW movies, though I find it more tolerable in TLJ.

I feel like that's not what RJ said at all about Rose. Nor does he ever present Finn as a dumb jock. She provides info he wouldn't have since hes been a ST most of his life but Rose was calling him "The Finn" before she finds out he is taking an escape pod.
Here's what RJ said about Rose:

Her character is not just about pulling the hero she thought Finn to be out of Finn, but pulling the hero out of herself as well( she's like Rey but with no powers). She views the heroes as Poe, Finn and her sister Paige but she has to take up that mantle as well and when she decides to help and be a hero with Finn. This passage from the novel describes Rose's effect on Finn perfectly to me:

I honestly wish that was in the movie.

 

I think that quote has more context when you consider what he says moments before:

"So we start Rose in a really, uh, unflattering maintenance jumpsuit uniform thing. And then she’s in that until, uh, formal wear and there we can really have fun. . . My intent is to cast someone you would not expect to see."

This seems pretty straight forward to me. Rose was supposed to be presented as a brainy, plain-looking dork who Finn overlooks initially, and during the casino story arc he would realize she’s actually cool and pretty. They cut that part out, but left in the stereotypical character dynamics. Finn was going to be easily distracted by the bright lights of Canto Bight like a baby and forget all about the mission if not for Rose’s responsible perspective. After getting out of jail, she’s the one who knows how to handle the space horses and gain the trust of the stable boy. Throughout TLJ, she is the shot caller and Finn is the sidekick who needs a steady hand. He provides physical courage and a handsome veneer (when they infiltrate the Supremacy) to the partnership, but not much else, hence the “jock” stereotype. To be fair, I think that stereotypes are not necessarily a bad thing in storytelling but I don't think they work well in this instance, mainly because of the bad writing.

 

I think that in TFA, Finn despite his cowardice and lack of gravitas felt much more like a main character than Finn in TLJ. In TLJ, he felt more like a "token" or an afterthought that was only part of the movie because he had to be. The main difference for me is that he wasn't allowed to affect the plot or have agency like he was in TFA. It felt like every decision he made was dictated to him by someone else. The one improvement from TFA to TLJ is that he was allowed to display a more serious disposition. But it's too bad they didn't take advantage of it.

 

The biggest problem for me with Finn in TFA was that his really big moment - confronting Phasma and getting her lower the shields was played for laughs. It was really important stuff to the main plot. I don't see what was so funny to frame this scene like this. It is actually more important than fighting Kylo (both for Finn and Rey) because we already know that killing Kylo won't stop FO (there are Hux and Snoke). (Also, I certainly don't see what so funny about janitor joke and this is mystery for me why in pre-production, while filming and editing nobody is changing this "joke" for two movies and for 4 years)

In TLJ Finn's moment to shine wasn't a joke and looks more epic. Say what you want about Finn's arc in the film, but Finn looks like badass in this moment and this is only his moment. It feels like big decision and Finn gets iconic line when he wins.

In TFA, after Finn and Rey meet Han, I feel like Finn first sidelined for Han (and it's sooooo unfair because, you know, Harrison Ford) and then he always sidelined for Rey. Even his Confession is more about Rey than about him. After Finn goes to the Resistance - that was the moment they needed to establish dramatic personal arc for Finn and develop it fully from there. His reaction to the Resistance, more connection to Han and Leia as rebels and finally adress his personal conflict from his wonderful intro. It the end it all was played either for Rey's story or was downplayed (as "shields" moment with Phasma).

TLJ overall wasn't perfect for Finn but it was better for his story, his role in ST and SW. RJ just doesn't make his characters likeable like JJ and does not have such goal, he cares more about story and the bigger picture in-universe (unlike JJ).

 

If your giving a bad mark to TLJ for not showing Finn's past. Then you need to give one to TFA too in that aspect.