ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

Well, yeah, Rodan was an insufferable antagonist who existed to pick apart every last thing the heroes did. One wouldn't want to be associated with him or his petty arguments. Criticizing Luke for taking the X-Wing is patently ridiculous, as the Rebellion owed its continued existence to his performance in that X-Wing. Rodan even admits that such things were tolerated in the Rebellion, which shows the difference between it and the Resistance. It's the pettiest of charges, and I'm pretty sure Rodan's talking about it some twenty years after the fact.

And, yeah, while Leia isn't happy about it, she doesn't tase him, either. This is despite the fact that she has a personal relationship with Luke, while Rose has never even met Finn. I think that's a big difference.

 

A case is made in the FoTJ threads that Rodan was right all along - that the Jedi's insistence on seeing themselves as Above Rules - is leading them down a very bad path.

 

Post-NJO mirror universe, natch.

And, in this case, Rodan's argument wouldn't even apply to Finn, as Finn hadn't officially joined the Resistance, unlike Commander Skywalker. Finn isn't Above Rules, he never agreed to them in the first place. You can't be beholden to military rules if you never joined that military to begin with.

 

I'd go with

"Rose believes Finn, having served on the team that brought down Starkiller Base's shields, is now a Resistance member."

Hence her description of him as a deserter.

 

Sure, but it really doesn't matter to me. I don't care about Rose at all, I care about how this is even a thing and how it makes the Resistance look, especially from Finn's pov, having just escaped conscription in the FO. Even if Finn was an official Resistance member, unlike the FO it should be voluntary, and here its portrayed otherwise. It's just a bad look, and an entirely unnecessary one.

We also have people here describing Finn as a traitor and a deserter. They're not Rose. The Commander Skywalker comparison was to mock them for not holding Luke to the same standards, when Luke held an official rank in the Rebellion.

 

Apparently Rose had tasered 3 other deserters that day before Finn turned up.

 

The problem isn't that Rose mistakes Finn for a deserter, it's that, to all appearances, so does the movie.

(While we're here, the fact that it's established that actual Resistance soldiers are also acting like rats deserting a sinking ship ought to mean something.)

 

There is one thing that posters who have defended Finn’s arc in TLJ have constantly said that I also ended up agreeing with: is that his arc is about him finding his will to fight for the Resistance and become a fully-fledged member of it, instead of just fighting for Rey.

But I also think that the introduction undercuts Finn’s choice, as he is effectively blocked (by Rose) from choosing to leave the Resistance. He is essentially forced to be part of the Resistance whether he likes it or not, and well, good thing he ended up accepting the fate others chose for him. Which again, doesn’t make the Resistance feel that much different than the FO.

 

Whether you think that Finn came off as an unfaithful, selfish deserter who was going to bail out on his new friends at the worst moment only to learn a pointless lesson that he had already been schooled on in The Force Awakens or a victim of circumstance who was justified in trying to get away only to be forced/shamed into assistance and ending up trapped in a bland mission which results turned out to be more futile than fruitful for the Resistance, I think most of us can agree that the handling of Finn as a character was problematic to say the least. Rian Johnson failed Finn because he probably wasn't all that interested in Finn and thus had no idea what to do with him. Of course if JJ had left Finn in a stronger position from a story and plot standpoint after TFA it could have turned out better so I can't blame it all on Johnson.

 

I love the last jedi and it's one of my top Star Wars films.

However, I have to agree with those who (truthfully...not dogwhistling some racist nonsense) believe his arc was compromised in TLJ.

He has made progress by the end of TFA. He's ready to fight and throw himself into danger for Rey. In TLJ, he reverts to the cowards way out immediately and has to make the same journey once again. Granted, he goes further and through his experiences with the decadence at canto bite and DJ's betrayal, he ends up radicalized and firmly on the side of the rebels, but he didn't have to regress to a coward in order to make that journey.

I also don't really like the way Finn has been handled from TFA- the need for him to act as comic relief means his character is undermined at every turn.

That being said, there's hope for him in episode 9, as he's now 100% rebel scum (in a good way)

 

Here's a question, did RJ write Finn trying to leave the Resistance because he honestly thought that's what he'd do...or was it the only way he could make Rose and Finn meet?

I ask because looking at one of the deleted scenes...the one where BB-8 shows Finn the moment where Rey kissed him, Finn is clearly motivated to take action when he'd just been sitting there with no idea of what to do...but the action he takes seems like a choice he wouldn't make. Also...that act is pretty much ignored through the rest of the movie except for a brief joke that get's swept away.

I recall, at one point RJ played around with the idea of Poe and Finn going on an adventure before rejecting that idea. What if the original plan was to have Finn see the hologram....then go straight to Poe and present his idea and the two go off to Canto Bight (or wherever) on an adventure. However...RJ decides that pairing Finn and Poe wouldn't help either character and thus creates Rose....which presents him with a problem....why would Finn talk to this random Resistance woman when he's clearly focused on saving Rey....and thus the Escape Pod scene is born?

If what I have said is the case....then RJ missed a golden opportunity. Finn should've been the Gunner on the transport and been there when Paige dies. Have a brief scene where he hands Paige's portion of the necklace to Rose...and in her grief Rose blows up at him when he says the wrong thing because Finn's not really good at comforting strangers during their moment of grief. The movie goes on, Leia is injured and Finn picks up the beacon. After the hologram scene, Finn has BB-8 follow him to the intel room where they pour over every bit of data they have on the FO to figure out how they're being tracked. That's when Rose comes in to apologize...and finds Finn working on a way to 'save' the Resistance. Of course it comes out during the conversation that Finn is focused on saving Rey which annoys Rose...but it also saves the Resistance so she helps him with the plan. In the end, the three approach Poe with the plan they've worked out.

I feel this would've worked better because the more I think about the escape pod the less sense it makes. Sure the FO may not have noticed the escape pod....but where was Finn planning to go at Sublight speeds....assuming the Pod even HAD engines? Finn's not an idiot, he knows that to get anywhere he'd need a ship with a working hyperdrive...and someone to fly it...and since it's been established that Finn dosen't know HOW to pilot a starship....trying to run away like that just wouldn't work....so if you can't run....then you HAVE to come up with another solution....which Finn has shown an ability to do.

RJ has solid ideas....but he has issues with thinking them through.

You want Poe to learn a lesson about leadership? Cool that could work, just set it up so that the reason Holdo doesn't inform anyone about her plan is because she is worried about deserters being captured and forced to spill their guts to the FO. Have Poe realize (With dawning horror) that him telling Finn Holdo's plan (and thus DJ) then sending them to a ship run by two guys who can rip information from people's minds (something he has first hand knowledge of) he doomed every single person gun downed by the FO. Drive the knife in by having Holdo tell Poe "If you'd come to me with this I would've used it as Plan A" which would show she's not being unreasonable. I mean so long as Finn knew nothing about Plan B...his operation was worth a shot.

You want Luke to be reluctant to come back but still be a hero. Imply that Snoke did something to him...the left the pair connected...so if Luke opens himself up to the Force...Snoke can see what he's doing. That's why he's in hiding, he can't join Leia or else he literally becomes an unwilling mole for the First order....and five years of trying to find a way to break this connection have resulted only in disappointment and failure.

It's clear what needs to happen for any Star Wars movie in the future.....bring ME the script and I'll pour over it and make it better. I won't even charge you....more than a lifetime Disney Annual Platnium pass for myself and my immediate family....plus a free one week stay at the Star Wars hotel at Orland Disney world. Come now Kathleen Kennedy...you know that is a BARGAIN for a script doc.

 

I figured it out! How we could've worked Lando into TLJ and given Finn a mission with more of an impact on the events of the film. First, we're dropping Canto Bight....I know RJ wanted a new world...but he really didn't have time to make a 'To Catch a thief' plot work. This time, Maz Sends Finn and Rose to Nar Shaddaa (The smugglers moon) to find someone who can help them disable the tracker. They meet one of her contacts and learn the person they want has been captured by a Hutt and is being held in their dungeon. So with limited time to plan...they stage a breakout...only to learn their original target died...thus they have to make do with DJ, who was one of many people imprisoned in the hutts dungeons. As the Jail break kicks off, we see that the FO has sent Phasma and a small group of troopers to make overtures to the Hutts, seeking an...understanding. Finn is taking out Hutt guards, so Phasma and her teams steps in to quell this prison break. During the fighting Finn spares another trooper, one he knows, before escaping with Rose, and DJ.

As Finn, Rose and DJ leave Nar Shaddaa, their contact is surprised to find that Lando, the original target, is alive and well. He faked his own death to escape the Hutt's Dungeons. Once Lando hears said contact mention the resistance he tells them to start from the beginning.

Fast forward to Rey re boarding the Falcon after her disastrous alliance with Kylo Ren...only to find a new figure talking with Chewie, one whose face we don't see.

During the fight on Supremacy, Finn tells the truth about Phasma, and though she scoffs at the idea of anyone listening to him, the Trooper who Finn spared, voices his willingness to investigate....since forming an alliance with the Hutts goes against what they were told the FO stands for...and that seems to make the other troopers hesitate...which is when Phasma tries to gun them all down, only for Finn to stop her with a melee strike that eventually results in her falling (seemingly to her death). Finn asks the other troopers to come with him...but they decline...not ready to fully abandon the FO...but willing to let Finn go without further harrassment.

Battle of Crait, this time it's Lando and Chewie at the controls of the Falcon, as Rey and maz's contact man the guns. In the end, we can see Lando and Leia talking briefly, with Lando mentioning he has some underworld contacts that have no desire to see the Empire return to dominance in the galaxy.

And there you are, Finn's mission fails to stop the hyperspace tracker, but does bring Lando and his allies into the fold...and plants the first seeds of doubt amongst the Storm Trooper corps.

 

Anyone else feel a little perturbed at the idea that Finn was made to look over the top fanatical at the end of TLJ as opposed to how he was at the end of TFA? I ask this because at the end of TFA he's presented as a much more level-headed character that you can imagine fighting the First Order with a cool head. Which in fact is what allowed him to do as well as he did against Kylo. Then TLJ just tossed that away in favor of making him overzealous out of nowhere, seemingly just so Rose can have that cringe-worthy line and she and Poe could have to "reign him in". I can't be the only one that noticed that drastic change, right?

 

Nope. I was happy that he didn't end up in a coma again or die.

Also I'm happy if this means Finn gets to act more like the "Raphael" to Poe's "Leonardo." More aggressive less weak.

We see this when Finn wants to go fight Kylo but Poe stops him.

He's finally a person who's stopped running away cowardly or out of self interest.

 

PLEASE don’t let his first words in Episode 9 be “Where’s Rey?”

 

Yes. Finn felt indoctrinated at the end of TLJ, not like he came to a genuine idealistic belief for the good of the galaxy. It started when he repeated Rose's nonsense to DJ about how everyone that goes to Canto Bite for fun is a "bad guy" arms dealer, without learning anything for himself. Rose tazed and lectured him for wanting to not die for the Resistance, and then at the end he wanted to die for the Resistance. It doesn't feel organic. It feels forced.

 

I always felt like the ladder, he was just a victim of circumstance. Yeah he was ditching the resistance, but it wasn't like he was going to the First Order, which he wound up going to anyways. He was going to Rey and Luke. I would have loved to see that interaction. I actually wish JJ had left Finn with Rey at the end of TFA, even on board of the Falcon in a coma. That way, Finn would have started off on the island, the Canto plot would probably go to Poe, who actually makes much more sense of a character to go with Rose. Poe is somewhat responsible for her sister's death. Now he has to make it up to her by going with her to try to make things right.

 

I've mentioned it before, but they should've put more effort into highlighting Finn and DJ's dynamic.
Finn isn't DJ by any means, but one thing they have in common is that they don't exactly rush into the idea of war. The lesson Finn learns in my mind is that passivity can be dangerous and harmful. Take DJ for instance. He's not a killer, but he's passive to the point where he's willing to get anyone killed.

I don't think Finn would ever turn into that, but Finn sees that his mindset wasn't exactly the purest, and perhaps he felt a twinge of fear or disgust at the idea of it. Finn was never heartless in TFA. He was fearful, yes, adjusting to be able to think for himself, absolutely. But he was never okay with the idea of killing an innocent. Nor was he ever a coward given his upbringing.

DJ tells him that there's no such thing as good or bad guys. And gives him advice to be neutral. Live for himself. A concept that seems pretty harmless at first. But then Finn sees the "extremist" form of neutral. The scumbag who's willing to allow innocent people to be slaughtered for money. So he decides to pick a side for the sake of preventing innocent people from dying or suffering under oppression, or being at the mercy of people like DJ.

Of course, that's what happens in my mind. So in a way, Finn's goal can still be personal. Getting revenge on the First Order. Destroying them. Possibly freeing other stormtroopers.

Unfortunately they didn't spend enough time expanding on that so it falls completely flat like every other "lesson" in the movie.

 

I think you’re dead on with the intent of DJ. The execution doesn’t work for me at all, But yeah, Rose was meant to be the angel on Finn’s shoulders and DJ the devil tempting him. Rose just isn’t really an angel given how she treats him, DJ is such a nothing character I always forget he was even there.

I’m probably influenced by my irritation with the duplication of Finn’s arc from TFA. I never believed Finn was a coward given his intro in TFA. I still think coward was always the innacurate way to describe him. Sure he had normal human fears, but when believed in something, he faced his fears head on. That’s literally how he began as a character in SW. The fact that RJ started his story with Rose tazing him and calling him a coward rubbed me so insanely wrong.

 

Finn as a character has been treated VERY poorly so far. He has no cool/special items, he has not had a big moment of his own either. I have little hope for his character now. It's a shame since the concept of a runaway Stormtrooper is so interesting.

 

I just watched The Force Awakens followed by The Last Jedi again, and the decisions for Finn in this movie still amaze me. The redundancy is so stark when watching TLJ right after TFA. except TLJ is the watered down version of his arc. Why should I care about Canto Bight and DJ leading Finn to stay in the Resistance and fight, when Finn did something similar after seeing Kylo Ren kidnap Rey? He launched a secret mission to rescue her personally, culminating in this being the first time someone comes back for Rey. It's so emotionally resonating and doesn't even feel like he's learning anything, it's just a natural progression.

I can't stand when Rose lectures him on child slavery and the FO, and he doesn't defend himself. I don't want to feel enraged by the stupidity of Rose and Finn's storyline in that moment, so I created a headcanon that Rose triggers some passive aggressive coping mechanisms that Finn used to get by in the FO. He doesn't defend himself in this film because instinct to protect himself kicks in. Since I adopted this headcanon, a layer of richness is now in Finn's story that explores how he is coping with his new life outside the FO and his past as a trooper. It helps at handwaving away annoying parts of the movie for me.

 

Boyega played a mentally stressed soldier in the "Woyzeck" play and it would have been a perfect time to show off that side of Finn on screen using what Boyega learned.

 

I think the character of Finn should have died at the climax of episode 7.He was really only there to misdirect the audience from the fact that Rey was the true hero of the film.He serves no other purpose really.