ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

Hell, Finn's awesome in TLJ too, in spite of his arc not being that good. He devises a plan to save the remaining Resistance (even though it fails), destroys a town full of war profiteers, defeats Phasma, inspires the Resistance to fight back against the battering ram cannon, attempts to sacrifice his life to save everyone, and is brave enough to help Luke take on the entire First Order.

I just...don't get the hate for Finn at all. Even the Poe Dameron comics go as far as to acknowledge Finn's awesomeness:

 

Nope.Its not a fact.Thats an opinion.A perfectly valid one that you are entitled to but not a fact.Just like my opinion that Finn is just the bumbling comic relief of the ST so far.But thats the subjectivity of film for ya.

And thats one hell of a character arc to go from a guy who doesnt like killing to,deserting,to going '' YEAH! DID YOU SEE THAT? DID YOU SEE THAT? '' while he blows his former comrades to pieces in their TIE fighters,to following Rey like a love sick puppy to Starkiller base......Aannnnnnddd back to being a cowardly deserter who walks around like an idiot in a water bag in public without thinking to take it off,going off to save some space horses while time is running out for the Resistance fleet to deciding to sacrifice himself in a pointless suicide run.....to oh dont worry,hel probably be back to being a deserter again at the beginning of episode 9.

 

This kind of thing is so amateurishly bad. I can't remember if it's this issue or another, but there's another scene where R2 and bb8 sit around talking about how special Rey is too. If the writing is telling the reader that a character is great, that's a bad sign. We don't need to be preached at, we need to be shown. Meanwhile, in one of these comics, Rey and Poe make fun of Leia and her notions of Luke Skywalker saving the day with his lazer sword. That's a whole lot of telling the reader what opinions they're supposed to have about the characters.

Have I mentioned that I loathe this comic? lol

 

I think we ALL know why Poe Dameron thinks Finn is awesome

 

Seriously the Poe Dameron comics went from awesome to cringe-y to read as soon as it started to touch on the ST story.

That summarizes one of the biggest issues of the ST.

Luke: I’ve seen this RAW strength only once before.
Audience: You’re talking about the guy who got beat by a novice?

 

I really don't like how this comic threw little jabs at Finn when Leia was telling them all about the force. Seriously, it feels like they're rubbing it in people's faces in regards to Finn relationship (or lack thereof) with the force and comedic relief.

 

I mean, the characters aren't wrong in saying that Finn saved their lives. If you ask me, the purpose was to show that characters admire Finn for being heroic and compassionate in the process of him doing something heroic and compassionate. Also, it's more interaction between the three of them than we've ever gotten in the actual movies. If it means that I have to put up with some wonky dialogue and some hit-and-(mostly)miss humor for Finn to actually be appreciated by the other characters, I'm fine with that.

I'm okay with it because the comic does that while also valorizing him, so it doesn't bother me that much personally (no matter how badly I wish that Finn was a Jedi).

 

It doesn’t really matter if it’s right or wrong. We know it’s right. We don’t need the characters oddly bringing it up just to remind the readers that he’s “special.” That’s fanfic quality writing there. “Show don’t tell” is a rule for a reason. I don’t look for my fiction to tell me how to feel about characters. I look to be made to feel a certain way by the story.

Finn checking on Rose isn’t heroic, I’m sorry. It’s a nice thing to do that has zero to do with Finn saving their lives, and otherwise happens in this story presumably to get Finn out of the room.

I wish we got good interaction between these three. I was looking forward to these issues for that reason, but what we got was just amateur hour. I was looking for an actual story, not the characters giving the audience their opinions on other characters. If they want me to believe that Rey and Poe appreciate Finn, write them doing something with and/or for Finn in the story. This is such a throwaway thing. “Oh there goes that Finn right off the page. What a guy he is.” It’s patronizing. It’s another LF hired writer that can’t think of anything for him to do.

 

I don't think it's a problem for Finn to check on his injured and comatose friend. And aren't they just sitting around on the Falcon? There really isn't much for them to do - it's basically downtime for the heroes until they reach their destination. I think it would be weird and sort of callous if Finn completely ignored Rose when she got hurt by saving his life.

 

I respectfully disagree. Tending to an injured, unconscious person after saving their life is very heroic. And yes, he did save her life because he literally dragged her across an entire battlefield to get her to safety. The fact that two people are relating over the fact that he saved their lives while he's tending to Rose (again, after having just saving her life) is pretty sweet because it highlights that Finn is a caring, compassionate guy.

I mean, it's different strokes for different folks. However, Finn is just so underappreciated by, well, everyone that I find it nice that his greatness is at least acknowledged in-universe. We could sit here and blame Rian Johnson for the lack of Finn appreciation all day (I don't), but I feel like there really is an inherent bias with how people perceive him. He's always either too comedic, too useless, too shafted, too cowardly, too lovesick, or whatever to the majority of the fanbase. And that sucks because Finn is literally the most selfless, kindhearted, developed, and heroic character in the Sequel Trilogy. Not directing this to anyone specifically, but it's pretty annoying how much higher of a standard people seem to hold him to.

But like I said, different strokes for different folks.

 

It's a strange complaint, sort of comes across as "Why isn't Finn ditching Rose and chatting with his real friends?"

 

Honestly I was just never convinced of Rose being Finn's friend. It almost annoys me that Finn has to care so deeply for someone who just kind of ignores his feelings and needs to educate him on everything. I bet if she was conscious she'd tell him he wasn't applying the bandage correctly or something. I don't buy their relationship and that's the way a lot of other people feel.

Ok maybe I'm being harsh but you know what I mean.

People were worried over him being tied to Rey but at least that's somewhat believable given what happens in TFA. And while I agree with the concerns, I much more dislike the fact that he now has to be tied to Rose because....reasons?

I never got the vibe that Rose learned anything from Finn the way he was supposed to "learn" from her. I missed the part where she respected him because of who HE was and wanted to do and not because he became what SHE wanted him to be.

And just like the Resistance, I don't think Finn owes her much.

 

I'm going to be honest and I don't want to sound harsh, but I really don't understand why people are making Rose out to be this shrill, condescending, borderline abusive, nag towards Finn. She's not. She doesn't take his crap, but she doesn't take crap from anyone. However, Rose is also hopeful, kind, fiery, and driven by her morality. A person like that is a good influence on Finn.

Also, and I cannot stress this enough, this whole "Rose teaches Finn about, well, life" thing is pretty exaggerated. Her dialogue is not composed of her spoon-feeding Finn life's greatest secrets. The most Rose teaches him in TLJ is about her backstory on Canto Bight, not about war, colonization, or slavery. She's telling him her experience more than anything else. The "saving what we love" scene is not good, but it's just supposed to be a friend trying to stop another friend from killing themselves. When that happens, it's not unlikely that the non-suicidal friend will say something preachy to justify to their friend that what their doing isn't the answer.

Also, no, Finn doesn't owe her anything but he helps her because that's just the person that he is. Regardless of whether or not Rose should have stopped Finn from sacrificing himself or if Rose and Finn are friends, Rose still saved Finn's life. That's going to mean something to a person like Finn, who had previous issues with not being cared about by anyone.

 

Okay but once again we're ruling out how Finn should feel. You keep saying everything from Rose's pov. She had a hard childhood. She's tough. She doesn't take crap from anyone.

So why does Finn have to take her crap? Rose did very little for Finn that he needed. Finn already had people who cared for him without treating him the way Rose treated him. Which is why I feel Rey or Poe would be better. Finn doesn't have to be taught what right from wrong is. I don't like Finn being taught IN THE MANNER with which he was taught, and then getting romantically involved in that person.

And if Rose doesn't have to change herself for Finn, then don't say that Finn should be super okay with everything and still get romantically involved with her. Rose as a character works on her own, but not really in a compatible sense with Finn I don't feel.

The dynamic could've been written better so that it was more evident that Rose started to respect him and treat him as such, but it wasn't. Finn didn't have to look so perplexed and put off by a mid battle kiss but he did.

EDIT: And again you ignored the fact that Rose only seemed to change her view of him the moment it looked like he was doing things her way. She never tried to accept who he was or his point of view.

And if your argument is that "she doesn't have to because that's not who she is" then I respect that argument and who Rose is as a character. But don't then argue that Finn has to change or be the way she wants him to be, which is romantically involved. That's not exactly how I would want Finn to end up. Feeling like he got bossed into a relationship.

@The Deuteragonist I understand why Rose was mad at Finn. But Rose doesn't know exactly what Finn's been through. And she doesn't try to listen to him or realize that he's been forced to fight his whole life. And at least has a REASON to not want to jump into another war right after waking up from a coma he got put into after risking his life to save them in the first place. Her lack of sympathy is what makes me not prefer her as his love interest.

 

Finn is my favorite character. Not just in the ST, but in Star Wars as a whole. But he's not perfect. His feelings do matter, but he can't just keep checking in and out of a fight with the First Order when he feels like it. From the beginning of TFA to the end of TLJ, Finn walks in and out of the war with the First Order like it's somebody's screen door to their backyard. If he wanted to be out of the war, then he should have taken the opportunity when he had the chance.

I completely understand not liking the arc that Finn is given or his love interest, but from an objective point of view, there's nothing wrong with how Rose treats him. What Finn is doing is completely selfish and he knows it. He's stealing resources from the Resistance and taking their escape pod without their permission after they just worked with him and saved his life. You mention that there are people that care about Finn. Well yeah, there are essentially five characters that do: Rey, Poe, Leia, BB-8, and Chewie. Three of these characters are people that he's completely abandoning to die. Also, Rose not turning in Finn was a pretty nice thing to do for him because she had every right to do so.

I never said that. Rose should absolutely grow a bit, especially if she wants her and Finn to work. She's reckless, impulsive, and a bit naive. She could use some character development, but she's not the hero of the storyline in TLJ. That's Finn. Maybe she'll get some in Episode IX.

Rose did respect him until she realized that he was a coward. And Rose is shown to be pretty darn proud of him when he inspires everyone else to fight back against the FO at the end of TLJ.

I mean, yeah. Why should she? What he's doing is wrong. He didn't ask the Resistance permission to leave with their stuff. Also, he explicitly tells her why he did it when she tries to turn him in and she does listen. She just thinks he's a coward for it.

Finn shouldn't have to change for anyone. But if Finn's going to be a hero in this story, then he needs to grow up and stop being a coward. It has nothing to do with Rose because she's not the problem. Rose doesn't force Finn to do anything. She doesn't force him to go to Canto Bight nor does she force him to find the hacker or infiltrate the First Order. Oddly enough, he's the one that suggests the entire plan. Finn's arc may be shaky but he's pretty much in complete control of it. Rose just sees the good in him.

That's kind of like saying Finn should be with someone that enables his bad decisions. Knowing what someone has been through doesn't automatically make what they're doing right. Rose is explicitly shown to know Finn's backstory and she does listen to his plight while she's trying to turn him in. She just doesn't think it's a good enough reason for him to do what he's doing. It just goes back to the fact that he's stealing from them and taking their resources without asking. Him going "ALLS MY LIFE I HADS TO FIGHT" doesn't mean anything. They are literally all fighting.

 

Says who? You're presenting Finn's choices and actions as if they're inherently wrong. Contrary to many people's assumptions, the Resistance does not own Finn so he can do whatever he wants.

His decisions are bad based on whose opinions? You seem to believe that what Finn wants is irrelevant and that his decisions should be based on the narrative's direction, I disagree. That's terrible and careless writing.
Umm, no Rose does not know everything about Finn's backstory. Nowhere is it ever stated or shown that Rose knows anything about Finn's life prior to his helping the Resistance. The most she or anyone in the Resistance knows is that he defected from the First Order and helped the Resistance blow up Starkiller. The only people who knew he went o Starkiller just to get Rey are himself, Han and Chewie. He was in a coma, Han is dead and Chewie can't speak English. So where would she get all the information you claim she has? Excusing her actions makes no sense because they're based on secondhand information and what she thinks he should be.
It's quite funny that people keep arguing against Finn's wants based on the idea that he's some highly celebrated Resistance hero. The problem is that nothing in TLJ suggests that at all except for Rose's very brief meeting with him. No one else in the Resistance treats him as if he's anything more than just a regular guy. If Finn was some big Resistance hero like people say, he would have at the very least been being monitored while in his coma and been there to help him when he woke up and someone would have stopped him from walking around dazed and confused in the leaky bacta suit.

 

The Resistance doesn't own Finn, but they own the stuff that he is taking. That escape pod that he's stealing in order to save Rey? That belongs to the Resistance. And stealing is wrong. If he wanted to use it, then he should have asked for it. Also, leaving Poe, Leia, and BB-8 to die -the people/droid who took care of him while he was in a coma- in order to stop someone that's on a mission that can potentially save the entire galaxy is very wrong. He's betraying them, especially Poe who considers him a friend/ally.

That is absolutely not what I'm saying. Finn is very much entitled to go after what he wants. He's a very active character in that way. But what he wants requires him completely abandoning the people who helped him and stealing from them. These are bad decisions. Or at the very least, they're morally corrupt decisions.

That's pretty much all everyone knows about Finn, including the audience. And I never said that she knows everything about Finn's backstory, but she knows enough to develop an opinion on him.

I feel you're misinterpreting what I'm saying here. I never said that Rose knows any of that. She just knows what he did for the Resistance and thinks that he's a hero. But then she realizes that he's stealing from them and betraying the Resistance, therefore destroying the illusion that he's this great heroic guy. I mean, he is but not at that moment.

And what exactly is negative about "her actions"? Was she supposed to just let Finn leave with their resources without their permission? Knowing good and well that they might need them in the future (which they did). Her actions towards Finn are completely based off of her job as a member of the Resistance, not because she's disappointed in him. She captured three other people before capturing Finn. She doesn't show him any mercy or treat him any differently. I'm not excusing her actions at all. In fact, I think she did what was completely right.

No...they probably wouldn't. If someone has proven themselves trustworthy, then why would you monitor their every move? Someone could have been there with Finn when he woke up, but the Resistance was busy. Also, why should they treat him like he's some celebrity or a hero? They cared about him enough to save his life. They're in the middle of a war and being hunted by the First Order. They don't have time to acknowledge Finn's greatness, especially when they're literally on the same ship with Princess/General Leia who's literally an icon.

 

None of them have been shown to have done anything for him while he was in the coma, that's just making stuff up. He's not betraying them because he's not a member of the Resistance at the beginning of TLJ, this has been pointed out over and over already.

Yes they would because he's in a coma. This is not about them treating him like a celebrity, it's about them acting like they care period. No one stopped him from walking around leaking fluid everywhere in a dazed and confused state, but I'm supposed to feel bad that Finn is leaving them when he hadn't even joined their cause? For some people that were supposedly too busy to stop for a few minutes to help the guy that got put in a coma saving their behinds, they sure had time to bicker and argue in the meeting on the bridge. Also, as I've pointed out before, Finn taking the escape pod shouldn't phase the audience at all because the protagonists have stolen stuff throughout the entirety of the film series. Again, the least they could do was let him take one of the pods for all the trouble he went through for them.

 

He is stealing from them. That's a form of betrayal regardless of whether or not protagonists steal all of the time or not, it's still wrong. And it's not making stuff up because both Poe and Leia are leaders in the Resistance. They are a big part of the cause that saves his life. Also, POE AND BB-8 ARE HIS FRIENDS. Finn leaving them to die will never not be terrible.

They literally save his life. There is literally no greater form of showing that you care.

Yes, they did. His name is Poe Dameron.

I don't know. I don't have the power to tell you what to feel and neither does the film. But it doesn't change the fact that Finn is stealing from the people that saved his life, regardless of whether or not anyone feels that he's justified in doing so.

I don't remember this. What scene are referring to?

Again, what are you referring to? Stealing from the people that are trying to help you is always wrong, regardless of whether the protagonists have done it before or not. This is not something you can really justify.

That's justifying him stealing. If Finn wanted to use an escape pod to go save Rey then he should have asked for it but he didn't. He took it upon himself to take a pod without their permission. If he had asked and they said no, that would be a different story. However, that's not what happened. Also, he didn't do any of that stuff in TFA for them, he did it so he could save Rey.

 

I was kind of shocked that Rose violently attacks Finn for suspected desertion while generally I'm supposed to buy into her "I saved you, dummy" brand of cutesy good heartedness. Finn should've bailed on the rebels at Canto Bight and struck out on his own.

 

I'm sorry...what? What is this?

Finn should have gone with Han's friends at Maz's and got out of this fight, because he's pretty much had misery since he stayed. He risks his life for the Resistance and the thanks he gets is Rose tasering him when he just got out of a coma - after he wandered around the ship because there apparently wasn't a med tech to watch or help him.

Arguably, Han came back at the Battle of Yavin for Luke and Leia personally, since he wasn't in it for their revolution. He came to save them. Finn goes to save Rey but it's not like he leaves Han and Chewie alone in the snow and goes off to find her on his own. He still gives them info about Starkiller that allows them to destroy it.

 

Finn definitely needs someone like Rose to read him the riot act.

Han did it TFA and Rose did it in TLJ. Otherwise, left to his own devices, Finn comes across as just a piteous character.

As Finn's character casting description said in TFA: "he grew up without a father figure in his life and he doesn't have a lot of self confidence."

Hopefully though, Finn is at a point at the end of TLJ, where he is more meritorious. It seemed to show him that way at the end, and in the Poe comics posted here.

 

That may be true, but he also completely lied to the Resistance and essentially sent them on a suicide mission in order to save his friend. I mean, sure, he has Han Solo there to hold him accountable, but that doesn't change the fact that his motivation is irresponsible and selfish. The fact that he is able to get Phasma to disable the shields is extremely plot convenient lucky.

Agreed. This is so weird. After talking about it for the past two days, I'm really starting to think that Finn and Rose really do make sense for each other. However, I really don't like that casting description.

Sidenote: "Piteous" and "Meritorious" are officially my new words of the day.

 

Well, what else were they going to do? They had to get the shields down, Finn said he knew the place - which he did, regardless of what he did when he was there. I'd say it's both Han and Finn who get Phasma to put the shields down (and let's talk about how convenient that is, if she's some fanatical First Order officer, why does she do that again?) He may have just been there to get Rey but at the same time, he was the only one who had any idea of the place. Not that much in that sequence makes sense...

The real question is what the Resistance would have done without Han, Chewie, the Falcon and Finn. They had zero plan otherwise. They probably should have gotten their asses on their ships then, instead of blowing up Starkiller, tbh. Then come back to finish it.