main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Momotaros, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    “There was a table-tennis table. Oscar and Adam played. That got competitive. I decided not to get involved in that. I figured that the First Order were ably represented by Adam. John was a cheerleader for a second.”
    Domhnall Gleeson on what the cast of The Last Jedi did between takes"

    John Boyega, the best cheerleader ever
     
    Mostly Handless likes this.
  2. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Yeah, he mentioned this a while back on his twitter
     
    Mostly Handless and Jedi Jessy like this.
  3. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    I wanted to see it. I would buy TLJ bluray if it has it on extras
     
    Mostly Handless and cerealbox like this.
  4. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Love the thought of the cast playing table tennis in full costume.[face_laugh]
     
    Jedi Jessy likes this.
  5. Sannom

    Sannom Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Well, TFA and TLJ have pretty much gone the way of the EU and made lightsaber-proof weapons aplenty, along with non-Force Sensitives who are very much able to take on trained Jedi and give them a hard time. No longer is Lucas there to enforce that lightsabers can cut through anything except for the hide of a mythical monster and the staves of Magna Guards and that it takes a very gifted combatant to take on a Jedi in close combat without a lightsaber.
     
    TheLastHaterOfZero likes this.
  6. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    That's true. All throughout the sequel trilogy we've seen riot batons and the Praetorian guard variety weapons that can go toe to toe with lightsabers.

    Then you've got other melee weapons like the executioner axe, Rey's staff and Phasma's retractable spear.

    Odds are that Finn gets something like that in Episode IX before the ever let him handle a lightsaber again.
     
  7. Troopa212

    Troopa212 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2016
    I wish LucasFilm cared as much about the "normals" as the fans do. Maybe then we could get a movie that's anywhere near original or surprising. Can you imagine a trilogy where there's two protagonists and no one knows who's going to be involved in the climactic final battle? Where the one that doesn't have the force can't automatically be counted out because they're so great in their own right that they could realistically not only fight in that battle but actually win? I was holding out hope that maybe we could get something like that for Finn, but since they can't seem to be bothered with even making him a formidable threat to non force-using fighters I guess even that's out of the question too.

    Instead, we have to sit through yet another trilogy where the force users are isolated from the "normals" and get to be even more special than they already were by basically being made invincible gods in comparison to the "normals". I mean, it's not like there wasn't already a separation between the force-users and "normals" already, right? Nope, the gap has to be widened even further.
     
  8. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    See the ending of Rogue One for a better example of that.



    As for Finn. We have to accept from all indications, like interviews, the art of books and such that Finn was created well after Arndt, JJ and Kasdan decided the Force plot of TFA and a brief sketch of the sequel trilogy overall Force plot: Luke, Leia, Kira, Jedi Killer, who would be the OT descendants, etc.

    It wasn't until later they were discussing how to make the TFA male lead, when Kasdan decided just make him a former stormtrooper and go from there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    TheLastHaterOfZero likes this.
  9. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Yeah that's why I get tired of people acting like Rey is interesting because she's a "nobody." She's not a nobody. Not by a longshot. Every moment she's been on screen has broadcasted the fact that she's far from a nobody. Finn and Rose are nobodies and they get nobody treatment. That's why no one cares about them. Rey is never treated like a nobody. Nobodies don't get to be so skilled and successful at a majority of things they do (im not calling her a mary sue, im just going by whats on screen). Well, there were some questionable moments in TLJ, but overall she still gets to look cool and lift some rocks at the end. Sure, Finn had a cool moment when he bashed Phasma's helmet, and the suicide scene (though cancelled by Rose) was still fittingly emotional and gravitating.

    If they want to really convince me they care about nobodies, they'll make Finn a legitimate badass in Episode IX and beyond (and have more Finn centric stories for him). And so help me god that Finn comic better be legit too. No more silly stories of Finn's traumatic childhood as a stormtrooper.

    But overall, I wish they'd stop saying that Finn is an "audience surrogate" if Rian's plan was to make Kylo relatable and give Finn such limited screentime/development. How tf does that work then? I swear the only good thing that keeps me alive is the fact that John STILL got nominated for Best Actor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  10. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Does Chris Terrio have a twitter? Anyone want to ask him what he thinks about Finn?
     
  11. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Nobody is a nobody. The only purpose an alleged "nobody" serves is to come from a simple background to become a giant hero. But to have a character literally say it to one of the heroes is so meta and lame, especially at the point in the story Rey is at. Even by the archetype's standards, she isn't nobody anymore. She's the force prodigy General Organa sent to recover Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. That ship has already sailed. One isn't a "nobody" despite being super important just because of who their parents are. Ugh.

    Finn is also not nobody. He's the defected ST that helped blow up SKB. He was metaphorically "nobody" as a ST for this archetype because he was canon fodder. He's not that any more. He also is well on his path into his hero's journey. Yet you get the impression watching TLJ that he is "nobody." He's tacked on and insignificant to the plot. Non-force users are filler. The writing for all of this feels just so immature.
     
  12. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    I agree. Somehow (because Rian's so obsessed with Kylo) both Rey and Finn felt like glorified add-ons. I'm sorry, I loved Rey's naivety in TFA with the green stuff and using blasters and even her going out into the snow (from the novel). But that was a reasonable naivety. She didn't come off as stupid, irrational or irresponsible with it. There's NO way a majority of the things she does in TLJ is believable. RJ did all he could to make sure Kylo got as much screen time as possible, and the best character development out of anyone.

    As for Finn, again I can appreciate seeing him take down Phasma, and look down at her as she falls to her death. That was an excellent scene, and the meaning behind it is all there (and it was a nice mini speech on Crait as well I suppose). But you know one thing I'm kinda not getting?

    Instead of having Rose crash into Finn and lecture him, why didn't they do something really cool and dicey and have him jump out of his speeder at the last second, and send it into the mega cannon thing. Sure, it wouldn't destroy it completely, but maybe damage it enough to buy them some more time?

    Then we get an awesome shot of Finn staring up at all of the Walkers and stuff. Then while he's accepting the fact that he might die, have Chewie and Rey swoop in in the Falcon and that's how he gets away. Instead of dragging someone all the way back to the base while all of 10 feet in front of the FO's massive army.

    And it's not like it would be the most unbelievable thing we see anyone survive. Need I bring up Leia Poppins and Poe getting blasted backwards by a massive hangar explosion?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  13. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    This sounds so good. The Crait non-battle bugs me so much but I've never thought about what they could have done to make it better. Rose bonking Finn off his path, accomplishing nothing for the greater battle, was the ultimate buzz kill. My husband was so visibly annoyed next to me in the theater I thought he might walk out right there lol. Had Finn instead had a plan that was just partly successful at least there would have been a purpose to it. Maybe the explosion could have, instead of completely destroy the Death Door, caused some kind of shock wave that knocked over one or two Walkers, and THEN the MF swoops in to pick him up. It's a more minor complaint, but it just bothers me that the AT-ATs served no purpose but to stand there and remind everyone of Hoth. I wanted to see someone battle them, I wanted some action, I wanted just a smidge of success. This absolutely could have been used for that.
     
    RandomGreyJ and Rhyoth like this.
  14. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Serious answer. Because your scenario gives no resolution to the Finn-Rose relationship in the fourth act.

    There were many relationships built up throughout the movie that needed closing in the fourth act.

    Rey-Kylo: the last Force Skype with her closing the door on him.

    Poe-Leia: "Well don't look at me, follow him."

    Luke: Both Rey and Leia sensing him pass on.

    And so forth.
     
  15. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Just because Finn and Rose wouldn't have resolution in Finn's big moment of heroism doesn't mean they couldn't have gotten it in some other way. Shoot after that big moment, Rose could see his sacrifice and make some move with her rickety little ship to save Finn running away from the explosion. There are lots of ways they could provide both relationship resolution and grant Finn story purpose in that big emotional moment.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    Ryanpaulstewart and Rhyoth like this.
  16. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    @cerealbox technically all the resolutions you described took place without them seeing each other face to face at the end. So couldn't there be a scene with Rose looking out at the galaxy (or holding her medallion and thinking about her sister) and then she looks at Finn and Rey and smiles? Or her meeting someone else like Poe or Connix and they tell her she's brave? Something that would mean something to her and it would make her feel valuable and appreciated in the eyes of others instead of just focusing so much on Finn.

    EDIT @AhsokaSolo yeah technically Finn and Rose's resolution was from like...mostly Rose's side. She got to express how she really felt about him, kiss him and then pass out. So we know where she's at. But Finn not so much. Finn was baffled and shaken up the whole time, had to drag her back, and then make sure she survived. We didn't really know what we going on in his mind and how he felt about her at the end. I mean we know he makes sure she's okay, but that could go for anyone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    dragonchic likes this.
  17. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Not really. The resolution had to be between the two characters themselves with a summation of everything they did in the film together.

    Another example.
    It would be lame if at the end, when Poe figured out how to get out of the cave. A random Resistance person said "yeah let's follow Poe guys."

    It makes sense that everyone looks at Leia, and she acknowledges Poe's growth by saying "why are you looking at me for. Follow him."

    Because that scene is a resolution of everything Leia was trying to teach poe throughout the film.


    Another thing a different ending for Finn would have to address is his none fear of death. In @RandomGreyJ scenario, Finn figures something out but it doesn't resolve Finn's blatant fear of dying.

    In TFA, Finn had no choice but to fight Kylo to defend Rey. He was backed into a corner and fought tooth and nail for his and Rey's survival/freedom.

    In the TLJ ending, he's unequivocally choosing death straight on (rather than waiting to die in the other example) even if he has the alternative to retreat. Showing he is no longer beholden by fear whatsoever.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  18. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
  19. Sgt. Carver

    Sgt. Carver Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2015
    I think this interview gives a nice perspective from the actor about what John maybe went through with Finn and why many black people are concerned with how his character has been portrayed this far. Starts at 12 the minute mark, which I've time stamped.

     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  20. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    Regardless of how anyone feels about the film itself, you can't help but look at the type of character John plays here with the confidence, swagger and gravitas and not feel some type of way about the mishandling of Finn and what could have been. :/
     
  21. Ryanpaulstewart

    Ryanpaulstewart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    I think you are underestimating the power and subtlety of a fish-out-of-water space janitor story. What would SW do with a character like JB's in PR. There's amazing amounts of character development in bumbling around in a pointless loop of narrative... for two movies... learning the same lesson... JB in PR looks too straight forward heroic. There's no market for that in action/adventure movies.
     
    Ren Kylo, Troopa212 and JediAce1 like this.
  22. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Do people realize that Finn was the most honorable and respectful male character in TLJ?
     
  23. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    Right. When this trilogy is done Finn will come out as the most selfless and heroic character of all the new ones.
     
  24. Kurenai24

    Kurenai24 Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2017
    It's easy to come off looking the best when you essentually do nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
    Ryanpaulstewart likes this.
  25. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    it's about his character, who he is as a person. Finn would never pull the massive ******* stunts Poe does, for instance. He's too good.
     
    Star war likes this.