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Official Info John Boyega (Finn) in TLJ (see NEW warning on page 396 before posting)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Momotaros, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    I guess I see him as being likeably exasperated, and in over his head - the humour comes from that (stuff like “I’m a big deal” and calling Han “Solo”)
    Mileage may vary, I guess.
     
  2. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    Yes, his humor comes from his awkwardness and being clumsy. The point of his humor is that we're supposed to laugh AT Finn. His first scene in TLJ is the perfect example of this.

    Finn never gets to tell any jokes, he's always the butt of the joke and that's a problem.
     
    FN-2187 likes this.
  3. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    I don’t agree with your interpretation. I’m not a big fan of “telling jokes”, but he gets one liners, Boyega is a gifted physical comedian (I don’t see physical comedy as bad, myself)
    I feel that we’re laughing with him. Though I accept that if the treatment of Finn is a sensitive issue due to race or something, that physical humour may be uncomfortable. With that, all I can say is I understand it, but my reaction is to like Finn and not find him “lesser”, at all. I much prefer Finn’s sense of humour and innate likeabilit (he lights up the screen, for me) to Rey’s more Poe faced turn this time out.
     
  4. TheLastHaterOfZero

    TheLastHaterOfZero Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Maybe TFA and TLJ take place during Finn's awkward stage, and he'll somewhat grow out of in the timeskip for EPIX? TFA and TLJ events take place over the course of a week or less, and after he gives his speech on Crait he had no more funny moments for the rest of the film, so maybe he'll become more mature and aware in EPIX.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  5. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    People have used Kirk in JJA Star Trek as an example of this. I think that Rey is kind of like JJA-Spock and Finn kind of like JJA-Kirk.

    Thor Ragnarok is interesting because did Thor tell any jokes? I can't remember if there were any humorous moments at his expense, but I'm sure there were. He's also a really dry character in terms of sense of humor, unlikely to joke much.

    Loki is more the pure comic relief in Thor Ragnarok. This is something fitting with his character though. He doesn't like being Thor's sidekick or the "omega dog" among Thor's old group of friends. This is one of the things he's all embittered about in life.

    Finn is more like JJA-Kirk than something like Ragnarok-Loki in terms of comic relief. He is not depicted as a pathetic figure, IOW. Finn isn't the character Hulk bashes into the ground repeatedly either like Loki. Those characters are Hux and Kylo in TLJ.

    One thing I'm not fond of in TLJ is its Marvel movie humor style. And I'd probably be overjoyed if there wasn't any slapstick at all in IX. Slapstick is the dumbest cheapest humor right after bathroom humor and yo mamma jokes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  6. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    No, Kirk and Thor say plenty of jokes in those movies. Did you actually watch Ragnarok? Thor was shooting out jokes every five seconds. His sense of humor definitely enhanced compared to the other marvel movies he was in. Yes, both Kirk and Thor are used for slapstick humor, but they also say plenty of jokes so the audience is not only laughing at them but with them as well. Finn doesn't tell a single joke in TFA or TLJ. All his humor comes from his awkwardness and clumsiness. The audience are never meant to laugh WITH finn, they're only meant to laugh AT him.
     
    cerealbox likes this.
  7. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    Give me an example where the audience are meant to laugh WITH Finn?
     
    Rhyoth likes this.
  8. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    I watched Ragnarok once and thought it was a lame movie. There's no need for the did you actually watch it question. I wouldn't be commenting if I hadn't actually watched it. I wouldn't have said in my previous post that "I can't remember" something if I hadn't actually watched it. I personally don't laugh at most slapstick humor, it's an annoyance in the story usually and I just want to get on with the story, so I'm not going to log every slapstick joke or really even pay them much attention.

    I've got your point about laughing at vs. with. But you don't seem to get my point about how Finn's role is more heroic like Kirk's than just a comic relief role (like Darcy for instance). Kirk loses every fight just about, his hands get all puffy when he's injected with the wrong thing, he's socially awkward (he says the wrong thing a lot), he's a womanizing bastard, etc. There are quite a few "pathetic" attributes in the character, but he's not comic relief truly because he's the hero. Finn is also too much of the hero to be pure comedic relief, and that was my point.
     
  9. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Lol. Some of us don't think "womanizing bastard" is pathetic. And is actually very cool.
     
  10. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I think it works for him, and incidentally Hux as well, as long as they're both still played seriously in other scenes and "get theirs" so to speak. The issue isn't so much the comedy by itself as much as it's the comedy carrying on while the rest of the portrayal is disappointing and most dramatic scenes are undermined.

    For instance, TFA definetly exploits Finn's inexperience and awkwardness for hilarity, uses him for slapstick, and does at times ask us to laugh more at him than with him... But uses that to set up a dramatic counterpunch later. I've earlier mentioned how Finn meeting Rose has a lot of similarities to Finn meeting Rey; both times, he's played a bit as a braggadocios fool, posturing and playing at being something he's not. *However,* in TFA, this sets up him eventually having to confess to Rey in a dead serious scene with a quiet, intimate conversation where he exposes his vulnerability and changing world view, exposing his inner turmoil about being what she thought he was and what he thinks he really is. And then, of course, once he feels like he's abandoned her in a time of need, he steps up and becomes the "Big Deal" he was pretending to be. And while there's still some humor poked at him and his somewhat manic dedication to the Starkiller mission, the film shows him exploiting this for the good of the Galaxy in a cunning way. He may be a bit of a fool, but he's more Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass than just comedy relief.

    It's in part because Finn's story in TLJ is so disappointing and features so many times that it undercuts or under-cooks its dramatic moments that the humorous moments become more of a chore than a character tic. Him walking around in the Bacta Suit would feel better if Finn were to then show off some infiltration skills aboard the Supremacy and start that Stormtrooper mutiny we've all speculated about; again, it would be using humor for a dramatic counterpunch.

    It's the difference between making a protagonist endearingly eccentric and demoting them to comedic side character.
     
  11. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    The only thing I could think of in TLJ. Is when Rose realizes he's running away and tased him. Then she calls him selfish and a traitor because he thinks the fleet is doomed.

    Then on Crait he makes his speech about how people believe in Leia, and they have to hold off the FO until their allies hear their message and arrive. Rose gives him a proud look.
     
  12. Tatooine Twilight Twins

    Tatooine Twilight Twins Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    NSFW
    Did anyone read this yet, TLJ review comic? Just found out about it. It's hilarious. Especially the Finn/Rose summation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2018
  13. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I finally saw Boyega in the movie Detroit. I had my expectations up. He’s the most featured guy on the poster and in the trailer I was sensing sort of the Henry Fonda role in 12 Angry Men whet a good person influences others to be better.
    [​IMG]
    Spoilers ahead:

    The film is based on a true story but I hadn’t read ahead on it. It started off in that terrain but by the end he’s done nothing to help the others escape that hotel of horror and he doesn’t stand up to the racist cops or influence them to be better or even get to testify from what we are shown! And then the film ends with the gross, awful white cop essentially telling him thanks for helping us that night and he ends up walking out and puking and that’s it for the hero we were advertised. It basically subverts 12 Angry Men with a reminder of how hard it is to be the hero in chaos and with injustice winning and Boyega doing very little notable influencing from the time he enters the hotel to the time he pukes out of the court house after the cops walk free in an obvious call back to Fonda walking out in 12 Angry Men. Powerful true story film on injustice but disappointing for what I’d hoped would have allowed Boyega to save or influence more based on the setup of the trailer and also the first act of the film where he is influencing others more effectively. He’s reserved and solid in the film though and gives a strong performance and I think it’s an accomplished film worthy of acclaim despite my disappointment in hoping for a happier ending involving him and the others. I am glad there wasn’t some horrible twist where the entire crime was wrongly put on him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  14. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    I mean. That's pretty much how the real life events played out. You were expecting a happy ending?
     
  15. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I wasn’t aware of how fact based the story was until it started, and more than that, didn’t realize the situation was as crazy as it became. I’m not American so that particular trial wasn’t known to me prior.
     
    Sgt. Carver, griffon2k and cerealbox like this.
  16. Tatooine Twilight Twins

    Tatooine Twilight Twins Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    This incident was/is unknown by most Americans too so no shame there. My only problem with Boyega's character is that he seems to get lost by the midway point of the film as if the filmmakers didn't know what to do with him after that point. But Boyega was great in his portrayal and the movie was easily in my top five for 2017.
     
  17. TheLastHaterOfZero

    TheLastHaterOfZero Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Hmm... Someone bought this to my attention yesterday, and I was wondering what you guys thought.

    Are the injuries that Finn sustained from Kylo of no consequence to make it easier to forgive him? Because Rian didn't treat Finn's injuries as if it was important at all. No need for surgery or bionic implants, despite his wounds being grave enough that he goes down instantaneously when slashed by Kylo Ren.

    Just found it jarring why there is no weight in Finn's injuries; it's almost as if it never happened.
     
  18. Star war

    Star war Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2018
    I think it was just that Rian didnt want to spend more time on it. He wanted people to focus more on Finn's strong personality rather than his weakness. Nothing to do with forgiving Kylo.
     
  19. BlurryUFOs

    BlurryUFOs Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2016
    yeah, actually i think it was a few things. it would've made the character Rose seem like an *******, and finn quite selfless if he wakes up infirmed and in pain thinking about Rey and keeping her safe. johnson wanted to flip the way we saw Finn in TFA into something negative and he did a great job
     
    Rhyoth and TheLastHaterOfZero like this.
  20. Jazz9276

    Jazz9276 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Rian had the scar moved on Kylo’s face to make him look better. That’s the character he wanted to focus on. His favorite.

    Finn’s injuries? Have him walk around leaking from the bacta suit for laughs.

    Nothing more to it than that.
     
  21. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    I honestly hate that. It's such a small detail but I hate that they made his injuries look less grotesque than they actually would have been.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  22. cerealbox

    cerealbox Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    The thing is, if Rian wanted it that way.

    Why didn't he have the TFA team adjust it in post-production, before TFA was released?
     
  23. RandomGreyJ

    RandomGreyJ Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Finn's backstory as a stormtrooper? Let's tease it but do nothing with it. And then tell everyone we almost had it in. Stormtrooper rebellion? Nah, didn't fit in the slightest.
    The long-awaited answer to Rey's parentage? Let's have a two second (bs) answer where she just cries the whole time and gets insulted, but use even THAT moment to try to make my villain look sympathetic (while insulting her). Oh, and then two seconds later she's happy again.
     
  24. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Malleus Maleficarum star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    I shot iced tea out of my nostrils at "But these ********* are arrested and go to jail because of a parking violation".
     
  25. godisawesome

    godisawesome Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Then his issue becomes that he failed to effectively communicate Finn's strong personality, probably due to a combination of accidentally demoting his story in relevance and import when he split it off from the Space Chase and Poe's arc, and then, upon discovering his film was overstuffed, finding that he was more comfortable cutting and chopping elements of Finn's story out.

    Johnson and Boyega clearly had good rapport in filming and directing. It's just a shame that Johnson's plotting and editing wound up de-emphasizing Finn's internal conflict (thus why so many fans had to kind of discuss if to realize what it was supposed to be) and obscuring whatever emotional journey he was supposed to go through.

    I mean, I don't think even the best Johnson defenders have analyzed what evidence is supposed to show that Finn is genuinely so wrathful towards the FO that it's suddenly a character flaw on Crait, since he's by and large just trying to survive and save people throughout the film. And I'll still argue it was a serious mistake to have the Battering Ram Cannon fire several seconds after Rose rammed Finn out of the way, making it look like he could have gotten close enough to impair its firing ability.