Amph John Carter

Discussion in 'Community' started by Sword_Of_Goliath, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    Anyone else excited to see this?

    I figured there'd be a lot more excitement for it on a SW board.

    I've been a fan of the books my whole life, I'm definitely stoked to see how this pans out.

    How about you folks?
  2. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I only really started following it and looking forward to it a couple weeks ago when the various stories about it's likely boxoffice losses (due to it's massive budget) and perplexingly awful marketing campaign started floating around. That and the fan made re-edit trailer that did a better job at selling the movie than the real ones.

    Until then, I was among the masses of indifference the trailers were invoking in audiences.

    However, now that Disney has essentially rebooted the entire marketing campaign 10 days before the movie came out (new TV spots and even a new theatrical trailer) in a manner essentially addressing all the issues raised by the fan trailer and articles to make it more coherent, I'm very much looking forward to it (and, i like rooting for a boxoffice underdog ;)).
  3. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    Ouch!

    Sadly this looks like it's going to be a legendary bomb. Sadly because I think it looks like a very good film, better than many others of its genre (space adventure). But your comment (the only one posted!) says it all.

    Oh well...

    I don't like to nit-pick promotional campaigns, a strange modern pastime, but I have to agree that Disney got this 100% wrong. The teaser trailer was perfect, but after that they kept forcing the arena/monster battle on us, regardless of complete audience indifference to the scene :p

    Hope we both love the movie, though!
  4. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Well, the early reviews have been decent- not great, but not bad. It seems the biggest issue people have is the familiarity of the story, since Star Wars and Avatar and others have basically done this type of thing before, even if the JC source material came first.

    Probably one of the reasons the fan trailer and, now, the rebooted marketing campaign have included a focus on name checking SW & Avatar and saying that JC came first and "inspired it all".

    I'm still hoping it'll break even worldwide, but it won't do so domestically- Hunger Games and Wrath of the Titans will kill any legs it might have.
  5. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    If JC breaks $30 million this weekend I will be shocked.

    I'm not one of those "this is the moobee i'fe been w-waiting'g forr my whoooole l-l-life!!" people, buuuut: this is something I've wanted to see since I was 12. It looks really solid. Just wish more people were stoked to see it too.
  6. NYCitygurl Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    star 9
    I need to read the books before I see this, but it's on my to-do list. Sadly, I think it won't have a great opening weekend; people will save their money and go see Hunger Games :(
  7. Koohii Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    Well, the critic have ripped it a new one.

    Not that I generally speaking believe a word that any critic types.
    But I can easily imagine what the movie might be like if the review was accurate.
  8. Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 5
    Can you guess by my pseudonym whether I'm psyched for this movie?? :D
  9. Jedimarine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Haven't seen Avatar...why would I see this?

    ...

    My guess is it will make it onto the netflix queue someday.

    It takes a lot more then this to get me to shell out $10+ for a ticket these days.
  10. JEDI-SOLO Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    I just got back in from watching this. It was very cool I thought. Does this film cover all the books that were written or is there more bookstory? Also how close was the movie to the book?
  11. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    Saw it Sunday. It's an EXTRAORDINARY achievement in filmmaking, adaptation, visual design and character animation. I loved it to death. John Carter is everything the Lord of the Rings films were not for me: faithful to the core, intelligent, emotionally engaging without pandering, exciting without excesses of boring "action", visually stunning without looking boringly "designed". It's an instant classic; can't wait to see it again!

    To answer your questions:

    1. "John Carter" covers the first volume, "A Princess of Mars" and imports one character "Matai Shang") from the third volume.

    2. It is about 90% straight from the book, with very few changes, although it shuffles the chronology and draws its emotional power from a non-canonical backstory for Carter.

    3. There are 11 volumes, so get reading :)
  12. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I caught the film Friday, though only in 2D. On the whole, it's much better than the trailers would have you think, though it's not anywhere to the point where I'd say it's great or even "very good", but it is above average for it's genre- not as basic as it could have been, but neither overly convoluted.

    The bookending scenes on Earth are great and the film has a great sense of humor throughout whose presence surprised me, so that was most welcome.

    Also that terrible "on this very day, we will end it" speech is not in the movie (they redubbed it for previews so as not to have to explain the alien species names being used in the actual speech in the film- as such, it makes a lot more sense and flows much more smoothly in the actual film).

    However, it's not without some large flaws (ignoring similarities to SW, Avatar and such)- the Princess has some decent stuff to do for most of the film, but she is saddled with some terrible lines and a very weird dichotic portrayal by the script- they try to make her be the strong, independent warrior women whose also super smart, but then have her switch back to a weaker "I should just get married" female cliche and back again and they never mesh well as a consistent characterization.

    Kitsch, though, is the movie's main flaw. He's never bad (and, in the Earth scenes, he's actually quite fun) but he's generally very dry (though seemingly not trying to be) with a Christian Bale Batman voice and just never manages to achieve the gravitas/personality needed to really appeal John Carter to the audience.

    Again, he wasn't actively bad, but generally never good either. He just didn't have the star power needed to hold up a film like this.
  13. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Lucasfilm Ltd Mod

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    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 9
    The reviews I read here in the UK were mostly lukewarm. One comment was 'George Lucas got there first and did it better'. I haven't read any of the books so I'll probably pass and catch it on satellite.
  14. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    Dude, you'll kick yourself if you watch it on TV. If a sci-fi movie was ever meant to be a Big Screen experience, it is "John Carter". Think missing 2001, Blade Runner or Star Wars on the big screen. Trust me, the film is outstanding, groundbreaking in some ways, and well worth paying to see. Just go: trust me, you will not regret it!!
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I wouldn't put JC anywhere near the category of SW, 2001 or Bladerunner- it's not THAT visually amazing (though there are a couple nice vista shots) and you have to decide if the creature designs are your cup of tea or not (I actually think the kinda-cutesy/slightly-stylized approach is interesting, though ultimately probably hampered the film's appeal since it further blurred the line between cartoony material and live action similar to how the trailers had trouble conveying whether or not this was a family film or an action film meant for older audiences).
  16. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    Uh, yeah, it is. Maybe you weren't in the right frame of mind when you saw it. But it is absolutely on par with the films I mentioned. It's the best looking film of its type that I've seen since RotS. It's a real wonder to behold.
  17. Koohii Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    For some of us, that's not as stirring a recommendation as you might think.
    Avatar was pretty on the big screen. But the "story" absolutely sucked wind.

    As GL said in 1978, "Special effects are a tool to help tell the story. If you just had a two-hour movie that was special effects without any story, I think it would probably be a pretty boring movie."
    Yep. He sure proved that. Three--no, four--times.

    So, getting back on track, what movies would you say it is comparable to in quality of story and spectacle?
  18. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    I mentioned its story & character strengths earlier. Then 2nd Quest said JC wasn't on par with some of the films I mentioned, visually. That's what I was responding to. But if you want comparisons:

    Lawrence of Arabia
    The Searchers
    The Wizard of Oz
    Star Wars (1977)
    ...and many more.

    Just see the movie! It amazes me how folks on TFN boards were rushing out to see Underworld 4 and they're sniffing at this huge, important, beautiful SF movie like it's roadkill. JC is probably the best genre movie we'll see all year!

    !GO SEE THIS MOVIE!
    Or Hollywood will get the following message: "Sci-fi" = explosions, good guys/bad guys, space-ships, lasers, robots & special fx.
    If you want to fix that misconception, support John Carter!

    Right now, every intelligent SF film in the works is on death row because SF fans aren't even curious to see what this film is about. Forget about: Foundation, Lensman, Stranger In A Strange Land, Dune, Ender's Game etc. etc.

    And stop blaming the marketing: SF fans are supposed to be smarter than the average movie-goer. The word of mouth from other SF fans has been overwhelmingly positive. I'm telling you all: JC has the goods!
  19. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    But sci-fi fans aren't a large enough demographic to make JC profitable. Any film over a certain size, let alone one as costly as Carter, needs to appeal beyond the genre fanboy base, and that's up to the marketing. And pre-release tracking stats were abysmal.
  20. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    I didn't say we could "save" the movie, I said we should support the movie. Big difference. Just go and see what one of the most successful filmmakers of our time (Andrew Stanton), working with one of the most successful studios of our time (Pixar), has done with one of the best SF series of all time. It's not like you're being asked to go to the dentist! It's an extraordinary achievement in "our" genre. People shouldn't miss it, even if everyone has a different take on it. If "Star Wars" had gotten bad reviews & small box-office, you'd still have recommended it, wouldn't you? Even if you'd seen faults in it? (And believe me, if it hadn't been the crazy watershed it was, audiences would have seen more of its faults in '77). Same thing with JC.

    Bottom line: great SF movie, worth seeing, don't miss it!
  21. Koohii Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2003
    star 5
    If I don't have a girlfriend, I don't go to see movies in the theater.
    And I'm not otherwise motivated. Maybe if it is still in the theater in 6-weeks (so that the theater gets some of the profits, instead of just the studio).
    Most of the best SciFi movies I've seen are sleepers.
  22. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I just think you're overselling JC more than I oversell Tron Legacy ;).
  23. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    They're both great SF films that are better than the ones fandom chooses to support, like "District 9" over the infinitely superior "Moon"; I saw JC again today, and it is one of the best SF films I've ever watched. Stanton go it all in: the sense-of-wonder, the Burroughsian romanticism & swashbuckling action, fully realized alien culture & language (Tharks), and the visual scope of a truly great SF film. All without preaching at the audience or manipulating the heart-strings. I think both films are future classics. I also stood behind ST:TMP, Blade Runner, Dark City, and many other SF films that got dumped on for years before audiences came around to them.
  24. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    AFAIK Dark City never got dumped on- it's been a cult hit since it's release. Huge support from Ebert, had the advantage of being a year 2 DVD release, etc.

    However, we are in agreement that Tron Legacy will probably be a future classic (although it will probably depend on if the sequel doesn't drop the ball).

    I don't think JC will be remembered poorly- it is getting a good-but-not-great reaction, going by user ratings. But I do doubt it'll break out of that classification in esteem.
  25. Sword_Of_Goliath Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2010
    star 3
    Just a reminder:

    John Carter is still playing. It is a truly wonderful, epic, science fiction film, based on an early classic in the genre. If you don't want to see crap like "Hunger Games" trounce a brilliant SF movie, go see JC. It's well worth your time. Any Star Wars fan will enjoy this movie!!

    This new fan-made trailer does a better job of anything official to give you an idea of the movie:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ixKG_vCs1jM

    Bottom line: it looks incredible, has memorable characters, an epic storyline and is unlike any other SF film ever made, even the ones that imitated the original material.