John Williams -- a little boring?

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Mastadge, Aug 17, 2004.

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  1. Obi_Frans Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    John Williams is second only to Ennio Morricone

    The Star Wars music is the greatest ever but Ennio is more diverse imo
  2. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Morricone doesn't really do it for me. The Mission and Cinema Paradiso are both pretty, but not great. GBU is great in the film, but on CD doesn't do much for me. Even in the movie, Red Sonja's score annoys me. His music has never really touched me in any way.
  3. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    one fantastic project hardly makes him a God of film music.

    Yes, it does. Salieri composed many more operas than Mozart. That didn't make him more of a musical god.
    On the other hand, they weren't fantastic either....
  4. --Darth_Ganondorf-- Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2003
    star 3
    Boring? Possibly...if you really have that idea in mind going into each of his scores. For me however, when I take one of his CDs I go in expecting something wonderful. He hasn't proved me wrong thus far. Every composer has their own "handwriting". If handwriting sticks out more to you, fine. For me, just as long as it's enjoyable; no more, no less


    one fantastic project hardly makes him a God of film music.

    Yes, it does



    IMO to be a god of film music, a good majority of your scores has to be well liked. Howard Shore has composed other works and is he remembered for those too? I wouldn't think so, unless I've been missing out on quite a bit. One good work transposes into a good composer of film music, not a god
  5. StarWarsFan2005 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 1
    I'm sorry but I totally disagree. Just because one man has scored more films than any other composer does NOT make him a god...you guys are worse than the people on JWFAN...

    Trent
  6. Ozzel TF.N Foreign Book Covers Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 5
    Just because one man has scored more films than any other composer does NOT make him a god...

    Who said that?

    It's not just quantity, but quality of quantity. If any composer is a "god of film music", John Williams is.

    Just for fun, why don't we have everyone post their top 10 favorite Williams scores (except Star Wars) and their top 10 favorite Shore scores (except Lord of the Rings). Who's first?
  7. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Off the top of my head, I think I can name only three Howard Shore scores besides LotR: Se7en, Spider, and Ed Wood.
  8. StarWarsFan2005 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2004
    star 1
    :rolleyes: I-) I give up...I'm out of this thread...it is pointless to argue with you people...

    Trent
  9. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    The only thing I'm arguing right now is that Howard Shore's not a God of Film Scoring.
  10. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Have you given any thought to my examples, Mastadge?

  11. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    - Schindler's List (Stark and emotionally taut arrangements which are warm in tone and very intimate sounding)
    - Saving Private Ryan (Muted and brass heavy, not much blatent themes here as moods and tones, very UN-Williams)
    - A.I. Artificial Intelligence (Many different styles, only one or two cues even sound like Williams)
    - Catch Me If You Can (Completely un-Williams for a lot of this jazz intensive score)
    - The Terminal (Merging Williams style with eastern European classical style, similar to Schindler's List only more upbeat)

    Schindler's List, I definitely agree with. SPR, AI, and CMIFYC I haven't heard outside of the films, but I agree with you on all these examples, as well as, to a lesser extent, Minority Report.

    I'm not going to argue that every once in a while he does go a different direction. Even Jaws sounds a bit different. But from Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Superman, ET and by extension Close Encounters, up through Hook, JP, Harry Potter, the majority of his music sounds very similar.

    Of course, each composer has his own musical idiosyncracies and styles. Maybe John Williams' just isn't as appealing to me as some others. I basically started this thread with a deliberately somewhat antagnostic title because I constantly, especially 'round here, see John Williams hailed as the absolute hands-down end-all-be-all master of film scoring, and while I think, as I said, he's nonpareil in his given genre, he doesn't seem to have the range to boost him from Great to God.
  12. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I don't think anyone deserves to be considered a God. Not even Beethoven. When it comes to film scoring, however, I do not think anyone surpasses Williams. He may have a few equals but no one hass done it better.

  13. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    I like the term "master" better than "god".

    Sometimes I think the hyperbole from sports announcers and political analysts seeps into everyday talk too much. :p
  14. PloKloon1138 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2001
    star 4
    I'm sorry that I started all this "god" talk.

    That's what the :p was for.
  15. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Hey, it's ok. I wasn't saying it was blasphemous or anything. ;)

    Nothing wrong with being passionate about things you love.

    p.s. But let's not get into name calling here... okay?
  16. stradman Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2002
    star 3
    In respect to Williams being a master of his trade, absolutly. He is unriveled in his art. Is he the greatest to ever pick up a quill and write music, no. Nevertheless, he is a master of his trade.

    In response to Williams being boring, Once again I could not disagree more. For a student of music, specializing in instrumental studies, Williams music is the furthest thing from boring. He has intrecate lines and overlapping layers. His use of many differant styles, even ones which may date back to the great refremation, is nothing but amazing.

    Do I praise John Williams because he is John Williams, the "composer lauriate" of the USA? no. I Praise John Williams because he is a musician of the highest calibur. His music spans outside of what many realize. His has been the music for the Olympics in '84, '96, and '02 among other things. You do not get the opportunity to compose such music if you are indeed boring.
  17. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Two questions:

    How does anyone like William's 2002 AMERICAN JOURNEY?

    Also, I have the roughly half-hour release of Jaws, and have been thinking of upgrading. I'm wondering, which is a better listen: The "Anniversary Edition" from the original tapes, or the 2000 Varése recording?
  18. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    "How does anyone like William's 2002 AMERICAN JOURNEY?"

    :D To be honest, in parts it reminds me of everything else I know from him. I don't listen to it that much, but I do like it. Don't have much to say about it, though.
  19. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    The reason most of JW's work sounds similar is that he is mostly hired to write music for the kind of movies that have that kind of music.
    Whenever someone hires him for something else, though, he always proves that he can deal with most types of film music. He is a brilliant and versatile composer.
  20. DarthMJ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2002
    star 1
    Even life itself is sometimes boring.

    So it wouldn't be a shame if Williams is boring sometimes.


    Is he indeed sometimes a little bit boring? Yes of course!



    Is Williams a God? In comparison to all you members of this message board - Oh hell, yes of course!


    Is it blasphemy to compare Williams and Shore? YES OF COURSE!
    Williams is a legendary composer! Shore's tryings are ludicrous, I'm sorry.


    Is Beethoven a God? OF COURSE.



    Guys, come back to your senses. Please!
  21. Well_Of_Souls Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2001
    star 5
    Also, I have the roughly half-hour release of Jaws, and have been thinking of upgrading. I'm wondering, which is a better listen: The "Anniversary Edition" from the original tapes, or the 2000 Varése recording?

    While I haven't heard Varese's re-recording of Jaws, the Anniversary Edition is quite good and is sequenced very well as an album. I still prefer the 35 minute album, though.
  22. BabaORileyFett Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2002
    star 4
    I don?t own many John Williams scores, either, outside of the SW soundtracks released thus far.

    But as a film buff, he?s easily my favorite film composer.

    Music is a huge facet of filmmaking, and may effect my overall and personal experience with a film.

    The thing about Williams is he?s usually able to take a film up a level or two with his music. The themes to SW, Indy, Superman, and Jurassic Park are majestic and uplifting.

    If there's a film composer that's been playing it safe nowadays, it's Danny Elfman.



  23. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Is it blasphemy to compare Williams and Shore? YES OF COURSE!

    Is it your problem that you think so? Yes, of course!
    I am a big admirer of Shore's work on TLOTR. It's the greatest piece of cohesive film music ever made(Star Wars is fabulous, fantastic, awesome, but it doesn't contain the absolute continuity that TLOTR has).
    That's the reason I compare him with Williams. I'm not saying that he is as great as Williams, though. The god-comment earlier was kind of ironic. NOONE is a god.
  24. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Continuity? Come on. I love Shore's work on LOTR. They are probably my favorite non-Williams scores. But continuity? Where is the Aniron love theme from FOTR in TTT or ROTK? We get new themes. Great yes but where is the continuity? Also, what is the Gollum's song theme about? It's used ONCE and never again. We get other themes for him instead. Where is the continuity there?

    I can say LOADS about how amazing Shore's work on LOTR is, but continuitous is not a word I would choose.

  25. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I guess we have different views on continuity. Maybe the Aniron theme was only for that specific event? The Gollum song was just written for the end credits, as a tale of Gollum. It's not intended to be used throughout the film.
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