Comics Join Me In Rereading: Knights of the Old Republic

Dustin Weaver was definitely top notch as an artist. One thing I really appreciated in this arc was just how many visual references there are in it - it uses Mandalorian designs from both of the KOTOR games, TOTJ, Open Seasons, that Insider article that was about the only general overview of the Mandalorians at this point, the Tales comics that Weaver worked on, I think some old 90s WEG stuff, probably others I'm forgetting. It was a really memorable range of clear (and sometimes very obscure) visual references to show up in a small number of issues.

 

Yeah, I still miss Weaver's art (if only Marvel would put him back on Star Wars, rather than the garbage art the main title has had for a while).

Its a nice tonal shift and to get a glimpse of the Mandalorian Wars. Just seeing that big invasion scene and all those Mando designs, great start. Its also fun to see Zayne handling the normal Jedi skills (like the mind trick) much easier now than before. Even if his bad luck is still following him around, but he can handle that (mostly) by now.

 

Knights of the Old Republic 8: Flashpoint, Part 2

Notes: http://www.farawaypress.com/comics/swknights/swkotor08.html

I think the best way I could describe this issue is its one of introductions, expansions and establishment. We see Cassus, Mandalor, Karath, Morvis for the first time and get snapshots of there personalities right away. And after he is subdued, we learn Rohlans name and a lot about him as well. Elbee and Camper show more of themselves with the former showing both his PTSD as well as still having a childish mindset because it so new to him. Camper shows his commitment to Jarael. Zayne namedrops his parents professions which is nice seeding for later

Using the massacre as the trigger for the beginning of the proper invasion of the Republic is a real cool way to connect the first 2 arcs, and it makes sense as a tipping point.

Rohlans explanation are questions regarding his people and why there doing this really funny looking at it in hindsight. Canderous very casually mentions it was the Sith that came to them with an offer in the first game, the second obviously expands greatly on that as well. So we already knew what he was searching for even at the issue release, well, partly. What exactly the "Truth Sith" were in comparison to everything else was still up in the air at the time, obviously SWTOR would eventually give its own explanation, and these days we also know what Avellone's idea for them was. And so we know comic timeline wise he is never going to figure it out, at least by the time of the games. But this issue has always been one of the ones that really got the gear turning about what would have made the jump from the comic to a third Kotor, or even if the comic had come before two, what would have been referenced?*

But regardless, Zayne shows more of that newfound confidence by taking what Rohlan tells them, and comes up with a plan that we will see next issue.

Before that though were brought to Flashpoint proper with Jarael were we meet are old pal Squint, minus his hair who hits it off with Jarael about as well as can be given the circumstances, and meet Demagol for the first time who will become rather infamous throughout galactic history.

* I'm gonna make a post about that later on, elements/characters that would have been brought over to the games if there had been a third one or twi if the comic had become before, Since Avellone was so throughout I have no doubt it would have happened. But is has also always made me wonder if he has ever read or taken a look at this comic. Most likely not, but I think if he ever did he would really enjoy its examination of the Jedi and Mandos. Along with Zayne and how it used Revan and Malek sparingly but also so well.

 

That scene where the Mando's attack Zayne and the group is probably one of my most favorite panels in the entire series.

 

Personally I just love the page where we see the Republic fleet engaged with the Mandalorians. All those Hammerheads cruisers, the blockade runners (named Foray-class later on I think), as well as the new huge command ship. That sure shows what a mess the Mandalorian Wars will be. As well as seeing Karath (and the Carth/author cameo). Its funny how fast the issues moves, from Jarael's capture (though she sure puts up a fight) to Zayne's escape and then Rohlan's backstory. I think in KotOR it just sounded like some Sith remnants from TotJ egged on the Mandalorians into fighting the Republic as revenge. Then KotOR II turned the Mandalorians (and later Revan and Malak) into secret pawns of the "true Sith" though SWTOR didn't handle that storyline well either.

Even though this is the second arc, and quite different from Commencement, in hindsight its easy to see how much was being set up and how big an effect this arc would have on the rest of the series (and even the game).

 

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Avellone has at least casually looked up the KOTOR comic. He did write a Tales KOTOR comic with one of its illustrators, plus he did a number of the later Clone Wars Adventures comics so it's not like his only involvement with the EU was even KOTOR-specific.

 

Knights of the Old Republic 10: Flashpoint, Part 3

Notes: http://www.farawaypress.com/comics/swknights/swkotor10.html

So obviously this isn't 9, but the way the trade is formatted puts 10 before 9 as it was originally intended, and tbh, it works perfectly fine either way.

Zayne put his plan into action with Rohlan's help, but first we get to the real interesting stuff, Demagol notes Jarael and y extension Camper are not "pure" Arkanian's (something people were wondering about in the issue threads), but what really gets his interest in her is...well without hindsight it could be either her ears or tattoos, of course with hindsight its kinda both. And needless to say both her and Alek are both shocked by Zayne's appearance

But Zayne's plan works and Demagol getting bashed in the head is always satisfying to see. Of course pretending Zayne was killed by them set's Jarel off,(awwwww) who goes straight for strangling till Zayne "touches" her mind with the force. And we roll right into a redux of Zayne's plan from the beginning of the arc, but with war stories, extra explosions, and Gryph joining the cosplay crew. The Mando's cut and run with some more Rohlan bluffing and Zayne gets his biggest win up to this point, and with no deaths. One of many examples to use i the argument that he is actually the best Jedi ever at the actual job. Of course this is also when the famous "switch" happened, and its funny, people caught on to it pretty fast, but the final panels with Alek and the space suit didn't quite grab the minds as firmly at the time.

Speaking of which, gotta give props to that scene in particular, Star Wars even by regular media standards tends to be incredibly on the nose when it comes to callbacks or call forwards, this one does it well with both dialogue and art but doesn't smash your face into it and it's only with the context of the games does anything really sinister come out of it.

Alek specifically is written so well it deserves its own notice and it does wonder for his overall character. See as far as Kotor goes he was always kinda the Sith that drew the short straw, (Bandon doesn't count because LUL Bandon". In 1 he is basically a cackling cartoon character for the entire game sans his final words* and 2 really leans into that, hyping up Revan and the Triumvirate as nuanced but absolutely forces of power and fear, Malek gets treated like a dumb brute to the point they retcon HK having liked his forcefulness at the beginning to always thinking he was a dip****. But this comic goes a very long way to adding depth to him while staying true to the games. He's basically a jedi jock, a dude you could imagine having a drink with but also heavily believes in Justice, till of course that Justice gets warped. And again, you can see it here with how he hinted he would have liked to beat on Demagol on the ship, or see Rohlan knock him out again, understandably given the torture and all, but with hindsight also the first warning signs.

In alot of ways I think I would compare it to what TCW did for Anakin, you can actually see how they would have friends, be popular,respected and come to be seen as heroes, but you can also see the edge's they both have that will eventually lead them down a dark path.

It's all so good, and satisfying to read even after all this time

*I have always found Malek's final words to be almost jarringly nuanced and well written compared to how he was the rest of the game, but I think it works well with the flashbacks you see of him in the 2 games, this comic, and the idea that the Dark Side really does warp people into caricatures of themselves.

 

I always really liked Malak's final words in KOTOR 1, too. And I actually thought that the young Malak you see in the KOTOR II flashbacks fit in well with how he was portrayed in the KOTOR comic, with his earnestness and genial aspect.

You know, thinking of the Rohlan/Demagol switch, it was a good counterpart to the Revan reveal from the first game, but I think a victim of the KOTOR brand's own success. If KOTOR hadn't had a similar reveal, I wonder if people would have suspected as much from R/D... well, probably, I remember it being rather obvious at the time, the equivalent of a camera zooming in on a character's face.

And I have to give the KOTOR franchise credit, it was ahead of the curve, in that that kind of switcheroo would fit in well in the Peak TV era a decade later. Actually, given Westworld season 2 just ended, the first season pretty much did have its own infamous "Revan and the Player Character are the same person!" type reveal. And Westworld actually is a show that draws a lot from video games (Chris Avellone even gave his views on it in an interview).

 

Yeah, great conclusion to KotOR's second arc. Zayne saves a lot of people, scares off the Mandalorians and this helps his reputation a bit. And at this point in time the future Malak is still a pretty nice guy. The #0 already showed he was willing to go further than other Jedi, but considering the situation (Mandalorian invasion) it sounded sensible. I always felt a bit sorry for him since in the KotOR flashbacks we saw Revan taking the lead in opening up the Rakata stuff, with Malak following. That doesn't excuse his later actions of course, but Revan got a free do-over thanks to amnesia while Malak was too far gone by then, only showing maybe some regret in his last moments. Its interesting seeing how he starts out a pretty nice guy (possibly one of the first we see who treats Zayne more fairly than everyone else in Zayne's life), but slides down that slippery slope fast after the war gets worse. Well, the Jarael love triangle doesn't help him either.

And of course the big switch that will be a running subplot for years to come. I think most of us realized the switch had happened, but of course we didn't know who Demagol really was, or wouldn't, not for years to come. I was always disappointed by that, not the clues, but rather I liked Rohlan a lot, so I was always sad he basically spent the entire series in a coma. Like he was a Mandalorian who actually thought a bit rather than just finding some other Jedi to fight. He won't find out his answers of course (or at least won't change the course of the war much), but at least he didn't hold a grudge against the Jedi, unlike certain other obsessed Mandalorians. The Journal of Demagol nails Rohlan's personality perfectly too, much much later. And even what's his name, Pulsipher, is seen briefly here (in armor).

Its nice to see Zayne hang around with other Jedi for a bit, even if only due to them being out of contact for a while. And then there's that red spacesuit again of course. I sometimes wonder if Zayne and Gryph would ever put things together years later after KotOR I and II (I'm pretty sure it would take more than a few wars to kill Zayne), but then vague prophecies could always mean so many different things, which is why its not good to obsess over them.

 

I agree it's a shame we don't get to see the real Rohlan that much after this. It's nice to see a Mandalorian who hasn't drank the blue kool-aid.

Demagol is a great villain. Even though we won't get details or his full backstory for a while, the concepts and the stuff we see in this issue are great. A Mandalorian doctor, one who conducts horrific experiments and is only tolerated by his fellows because he gets results, and who views the Force through the lens of a scientist. These are all interesting, especially that last one. Usually when we see outsider perspectives on the Jedi and their powers, we either see Han Solo types who don't believe it, people who do believe in the Force even if they aren't Jedi, and people who recognize that the Jedi have strange abilities but don't' really think too much about where those abilities come from. It makes sense that some people would take the view that the Jedi abilities are the result of some science not yet understood. It's actually surprising it don't come up more in Star Wars, the only other example I can think of is Jenna Zan Arbor.

Demagol is someone who thinks the Force is something like a genetic code or a circulatory system: something he can take apart and put back together again until he understands how it works. And that is fascinating. (and also terrifying).

 

Rohlan was sadly underused in the series, I'll have to agree.

Speaking of Demagol, his helmet became a part of Schurk-Heren's collection aboard the Uhumele, ~4000 years later:

 

I feel like Demagol is very much a product of the general Bantam/PT/pre-Disney era of Star Wars when there was more of a view of looking at the Force as a biological process. Everyone points to the midichlorians, but it was there even before, things like the Universal Energy Cages from Dark Empire, the Force Detectors from JAT, even the concepts of things like Sith poison from TOTJ or holocrons as technology that has some connection to the Force. It's the kind of thing we don't see as much of in the Disney era, even though holocrons at least are still around.

Basically Demagol is someone who got excited when TPM came out and midichlorians were introduced, rather than the majority of people who disliked them.

 

Huh. Interesting. I always found it really difficult to reconcile Malak's VA with the comics. At no point could I imagine him speaking any of Squint's lines... and it was largely his portrayal in the TSL flashback that caused those issues for me.

 

I take the view Malak's natural voice is nothing like his robotic enhanced voice.

 

TSL flashback/vision

Oh, and there was the Dantooine flashback in the first game, too. I'd forgotten somehow.

 

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 9: Flashpoint Interlude: Homecoming

Notes: http://www.farawaypress.com/comics/swknights/swkotor09.html

On the surface, and mostly in the text, this issue is all about Lucien as the cover preety obviously shows. But within learning all about Lucien and his past we also get a deeper look at how the rest of the Covenant works, and the type of people they are.

But before that we meet Revan, and because he is Revan and can't do anything ever without being super dramatic about it, has his face covered completely by his hood. Revan being extreme is something that has actually been kept super consistent with him, throughout all media. The quality obviously varies but the comic does it well, just like with Malek, especially once we get to Masks, but thats a far ways off

Its fun seeing the different factions in the order, and who they all clash with the council. Its also really interesting how Vrook talks about the council like its a relatively newish thing that is still trying to get actual power behind there title, in this case by forcibly separating the Taris Masters. It fits in quite well with how in TOTJ there doesn't seem to be a council at all, and the whole order is still super decentralized. Makes since that the Sith War would cause them to try to change that, but consolidation takes time, so even without there incredible amount of money, its logical that something like the Covenant could be built and seeded through the order while it reshapes itself.

Its super revealing that Q'Anilla thinks first in terms of herself in regards to Krynda before backtracking, I honestly think her obsessiveness with Krynda coupled with zero backbone and being just as willing to murder makes her the most loathsome of the Masters for me personally, which says a lot considering how bad they all are besides Xamar.

Lucien meanwhile is neglected while his mom prefers the Seers, but he always seems like a brat regardless, troubled rich kid with lots of money and power but no mommy love, terrible combo.

Krynda really is an awful mom, and her ways of dealing with her husbands death are really bad, overcompensation with seeing the future, and zero attempts to actually deal with the grief.

Also this is really where we start to see the Elitism of the Covenant. Krynda neglects her kid for not being able to do what she wants, she prefers the seers for being "better", Lucien likewise looks down on Haazen. (and Zayne obviously) really that whole superiority attitude just bleeds through the whole group, they look down on the Order at large and Revans group to, but there reactive actions coupled with willful use of obnoxious amounts of money to get what they want makes them worse then both at this stage.

Here is also where the theories of "Who is who from Kotor 2" started to fly, with Krynda=Kreia being super common, Lucien=Sion (there were also some convinced Haazan was Sion despite the obvious body differences, and they stayed convinced till the end of Vindication) and Zayne=Nihilus (most didn't want that one to be true though.

 

I asked JJM that very question here. Thankfully, Zayne was never meant to be Nihilus.

Thoughts on the KOTOR and KOTOR:War Comics

 

Oh yeah, none of the comic characters where ever actually meant to be characters from 2. It's just funny rereading the issue threads and seeing all the speculation that will be proven wrong.

Also, some sad news Bong Dazo has passed away, he drew 1/5 of the issues in the series. Sucks, I think he was really good at drawing aliens/ships despite having problems with how he rendered the main cast.

In less sad news, both JJM and Chris actually responded to me, I'll try to post them when I have the time

 

I was just alerted to this thread, and while my schedule has been nuts (including an unexpected trip to Hollywood for the Ant-Man premiere, and a drive to a TV studio tomorrow to talk about it) I may be able to answer some of what's already been asked.

But first, and it deserves its own post -- yes, Bong Dazo did pass away a few days ago. Bong is the artist of second-longest tenure on the series, something even I didn't realize until I added them up -- and that's in part because he came to the rescue of the series several times when we got into deadline trouble, which was all-too-frequent. His contribution is underrated both in that regard, I think, and also when it came to imagining scenes like the comet-harvesting slave ship, and the planet exchange.



One of the appeals of the KOTOR series, I think, was the many original settings we came up with, and the large populaces that inhabited them; the problem is that those take a LOT of time to draw, especially when you need to either make sure that no aliens appear that can't exist in that part of the timeline. As such, one of the better things about the series was also something that often tripped us up. But Bong was fast -- and also imaginative: above, I think most of the species are originals. I can't imagine how much time it took to draw that. He was a lifesaver for us more than once, and I am sorry we never met.

 

There's some insight, there. Unless you're Robert Kirkman or someone doing a title he or she owns outright, there will always be needs to be address, and extenuating circumstances that wind up playing into things. In the end, what appears is what stands as the work, and a lot of the time the "if-only" stuff just takes you down the rabbit hole. Most obviously, "Vector" was never in my plans until later, and its existence caused me to move what people think of as the "third third of the series" -- the Crucible/Demagol arc -- to the other side of "Vindication."

But... KOTOR #25 was the best-selling issue of the run, and it goosed sales that had suffered from the lateness during Year Two, probably buying us the next two years. Without it, it might not even have reached "Vindication." So I file it all under Roads Not Taken.

Serialized comics will always have extraneous factors impacting things: to be able to do a story of comparable length and have it exactly as I wanted it (my Star Trek: Prey prose trilogy), I had to write all 1,200+ pages of it at once. It took a year and a half, all told, where I had nothing else out. That is seldom an option in any medium!

 

BTW, I recommend readers here check out JJM's Annotations on his own work.

I wish we could buy physical copies of those.

 

Ayy, cool, I do post JJM's notes with the cover of every issue, there neat.

Also as for Chris

So that's really cool, no plans for including anything from the comic in 3, but he did know about it broadly and enjoyed what he saw.

Meanwhile



Rohlan would have probably been pissed that the Sith were behind both Ultimate and the Lesser. It was always fun imagining him bumping into Revan and the Exile in 3 and being like



"The connections! It's all there" meanwhile Exile and Revan already know

 

Some thoughts:

The Jedi Covenant is an interesting group to return to many years later with the Force Awakens, TOR, and recent political developments in the United States. They're kind of an amazing creation and I have to give JJM kudos for making some of the most memorable villains in Star Wars. I initially reacted poorly to them but I've since become huge fans of them.

The biggest thing to note about the Jedi Covenant is the simple fact they're TERRIBLE Jedi Masters. This seems like a obvious thing to bring up since they murdered their padawans but it goes much deeper than that. Most Jedi Masters have a sense of grandeur and when they fall, they fall hard. Jedi serve a role as the angels of Star Wars in the sense of being they tend to be rigid and servants of an absolute GOOD but when they fall, they fall HARD. They are BIG personalities almost inevitably.

However, the big thing about the Jedi Covenant is they're flawed in a thousand SMALL ways rather than big dramatic Sion, Nihilus, and Revan. We've often met people who are failed Jedi but rather than Lucifer as the brightest of angels, it's just very clear the Jedi Covenant is made of people who never should have been Jedi Masters in the first place. In fact, whoever let them pass beyond apprentice to Jedi Knight was clearly asleep at the wheel.

1. Lucien Draay is still keeping his trillions of credits in the Draay Trust and using it to bribe people, including the Jedi Order, with the same kind of legalese a certain Chief of State is to keep control over his businesses.
2. Raana Tey degenerates into a murderous bully who tries to use Zayne's kinda-girlfriend to kill him versus going after him himself. Her psychotic degeneration is ruled by a combination of fear and patheticness.
3. Xamar turns against the Jedi Covenant out of fear for his own life and is nothing more than a glorified snitch at the end.
4. Q'Anilla is an adoring teacher's pet and seeing her idol's son like a Jedi Kelly Clarkson.
5. Draay is probably the most formidable of all the Covenant and he is literally motivated by his Oedipus Complex.
6. Their treatment of force visions as absolute shows they're not even very good seers!
7. They murder their padawans and immediately try to pass it on to another one--while it being a STUPID candidate to blame on. Showing they're not even good criminal masterminds.

They can use the Force but it's clear the Covenant are not JEDI. They're ruled by fear and that not only is of the grandiose "THE SITH ARE COMING BACK!" They're ruled by fear of dying, fear of being found out, and fear of losing their positions. It's very likely these guys have never risked their lives to defend the innocent or protect the galaxy. It's amazing, truly, that JJM made ARMCHAIR JEDI. Ones who clearly were passed on by their bloodlines and connections.

Krynda is notable for the fact she's FAILED her students in a truly Atris-level manner. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Atris is one of her students.

 

And there's something else: I didn't complete Rohlan's quest, but subtract a few marbles and a lot of good sense, and you get Skelly, who literally has a Conspiracy Wall. Clearly I was going to write that story one way or another!

 

Not to mention, the whole bloodlines and connections things helped indirectly lead Haazen to the path of the Dark Side through his bottled-up resentment.