Discussion Joseph Campbell, The Monomyth and the ST

For me, the most interesting thing about the Heros Journey and the ST is that there is a possibility of there being more that one journey happening at the same time, but each at a different stage.

If we do see a ghost Anakin, some of what he does could fit into contributing to his journey, and the same for Luke.

And then of course, there is the new one!

 

The Hero's Journey is basically just human nature. That being said the amazing part is not really WHAT it is, but rather that it happens naturally in storytelling.

 

I've read Hero w/ A Thousand as well. Very good read. Have also seen the BM interviews. Fascinating. As a kid I loved Star Wars because it was fun, aliens, ships etc... but as I grew older I realized that I love SW because of the myth.

As for the idea that SW has to adhere to the monomyth:

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Luke's journey is at the end, apropos, since this is the "Boon phase" as George has said many times, "A generational saga, passing on what you have learned" as well as a "passing of the torch." Luke is playing the role of the wise sage and mentor. He has essentially taught himself how to be a Jedi and now [presumably] he is passing on the hard won boons to the New Generation. The New Generation begins its Hero's Journey but because there is a bewstowing of boons (IE knowledge) they are simply better equipped to start their path. However, with gifts come consequences. With their training presumably/knowledge incomplete this new generation is armed and dangerous. Also, having to live with the weight of their parent's legacy all puts a large burden on the new heroes. From this comes the internal conflict which thusly affects their journey through life.

 

I hope they will deviate somewhat from the heroes journey. The heroes journey is the underlying foundation of many a tale, but a tale also flows more organically if you don't use a checklist. There's no need to include every step imo.

 

I'll repost something from the other thread:

As was stated in the other thread, not all steps are needed. Having said that, I believe that the ST will be about Luke in the RETURN phase of the Monomyth, specifcally "Rescue From Without," "The Crossing of the Return Threshold," "Master of Two Worlds," and "Freedom To Live." Read the descriptions of these 4 stages and an amazing possibility for a trilogy emerges, almost as if by Episode (MoTW and FtL combine to Episode IX) and completes the Skywalker Saga.

This is based on GL's description of the ST: "The main theme of the trilogy would be moral and philosophical problems, such as the necessity for moral choices and the wisdom needed to distinguish right from wrong, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned." He also said that it would follow the adventures of the character that survives RotJ, which we know is Luke.

The Key points for me is that he says it is the main theme of the trilogy (which indicates to me that Luke is the main character as he is the only one that that description would apply to), that it would follow the adventures of the character that survives RotJ, and that he never references a 3rd generation in any interview or behind the scenes plot discussion.

There will be new and younger characters for sure, just like the PT had new characters, that will most likely be a 3rd generation of Skywalkers (Solos), but starting their own Hero's Journey will not be their purpose/arc. Their purpose/arc will be to help Luke complete the last portion of his Hero's Journey, i.e. RETURN.

The fact that the ST concludes the 9 Episode Saga indicates to me that there won't be another character starting a Hero's Journey. Anakin started his in TPM and ended it with redemption in RotJ. Luke started his in ANH and will end it in IX, completing the RETURN stage of the Hero's Journey.

Besides, the 3rd Gen will probably start out in their 20's, already Jedi or like Obi-Wan in TPM. They won't be unitiated like Anakin and Luke were. Let's see something new such as the end of the Hero's Journey, not rehash of a story already told in TPM and ANH.

 

I'm hoping they don't retread it too much, personally.

 

Well said, T-R-. This is, indeed, the ST that I thought we'd get in the 80s following Return of the Jedi. However, with so many years having passed, I'm less convinced that these next films will not be more about the next Skywalker generation. That said, if Episodes VII-IX were to end up as you describe, I certainly wouldn't complain about it one iota.

I imagine that, as others have stated, the best we can probably hope for is a dual-exploration of the myth. There's nothing I'd like more than an in-depth look at the culmination of Luke's journey, but I can't shake the feeling that the spotlight will be aimed more at his progeny (which is a story I'm eager for, too). I only hope that Luke is not relgated to a small, "Oh, isn't that nice, Luke's back" role and that there will be equal room in the story for both Luke and (what I hope will be) his son.

 

Just want to say even though I haven't said anything here, this is my FAVORITE tread in the E7 forum....

 

Responding on several thoughts that have been expressed here...

I don't believe for one moment that Luke will be the main protagonist of the new trilogy. If it had been filmed 20-30 years ago, sure. But now? No freaking way. I don't want to get into the whole ageism thing (I'm an old fogey myself, pushing 50) but this is Hollywood reality. Disney wants these new films to be massive blockbusters. The main hero of the ST will be young. Most likely Luke's son or Luke's nephew. And of course he will be very attractive.

Besides, way too many years have gone by for the story to really be about the "Return" phase of Luke's hero-journey. Though I do think some elements from that phase -- most notably the refusal of the boon, which is a very important part of most hero myths -- could very well be worked into the new story.

Again, perhaps the population at large, and our young hero specifically, rejects the idea of Luke reviving the Jedi knights because of the terrible legacy of Darth Vader being Luke's father. That works on a lot of levels dramatically and fits the refusal of the boon. If our young hero begins the story not wanting to be a Jedi knight, not wanting to learn from Luke and benefit from the wisdom Luke gained in his journey, that fits in with the monomyth template and also gives our young hero an internal conflict. In any event, the young hero's call to adventure must mean that his life turns out very differently than what he had originally planned.

I agree that TPTB shouldn't follow a specific checklist, even for the monomyth, but the reason why the classic hero-journey has been around for thousands of years and is the basis of so many wildly popular stories and massively successful films is because it works.

So I'm willing to bet the rent that the new trilogy will follow this template.

 

Oooh, i like this idea. That could work very very well

 

I think that would make for a very compelling trilogy.

 

I have seen the Power of Myth documentary in my high school sophomore English class. Good stuff.

 

Yes, you're right -- that would be a very interesting idea to play with. I'm not sold on the idea that the new hero-protagonist will literally be Cade Skywalker, since 1) I don't think they will use main characters from the EU and 2) that would make Luke, Leia, and Han very old in the new trilogy. But a Cade Skywalker type of character could work beautifully. As you say, his personal journey could be a mirror image of Anakin's, starting out from a place of darkness and then finding his way into the light. Atonement with the grandfather, if you will.

I'd also like to point out that Luke cannot be the main hero of the new trilogy because he cannot undergo any meaningful transformation of consciousness -- unless it is a negative transformation. Luke has already achieved the culmination of his personal hero-journey; he has become the Jedi knight he always wanted to be. Sure, Luke can learn a new lesson or two in the new trilogy, but he can't undergo any major transformation unless he falls to the dark side. Does anybody really want to see that?

 

I don't agree with this because Lucas, in 1983, said that "The main theme of the trilogy would be moral and philosophical problems, such as the necessity for moral choices and the wisdom needed to distinguish right from wrong, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned" and that Luke would return in his 50's or 60's with Mark having the first shot at the character if he looked old enough. Sounds to me that it works better now since Mark is 61 than if it was filmed 20 or 30 years ago when he was in his 30's and 40's.

Disagree as there is no time table on the RETURN phase. "Rescue from Without" would work perfectly for the plot of Episode VII set 30 years after RotJ, with the 3rd generation taking part.

where is it mandatory, or even stated by Lucas, that a transformation of conciousness is needed?

Luke has not reached the culmination of his Hero's Journey, he is only at the midway point. The RETURN phase is the culmination of the Hero's Journey, and if major transformation is what you want, I present to you "Rescue From Without," "The Crossing of the Return Threshold," "Master of Two Worlds," and "Freedom To Live." That is as big of a transformational character arc as anyone could ask for.

 

Right. Apply the general Cade outline to, for example, "Ben Skywalker" and play this against his father, Luke.

 

We already had a Cade arc. Han Solos arc in the OT is basically the same thing minus the force.

 

Hm, I tried to forget about legacy. But wasn't Cades great struggle to take responsibility and fight for good? Well, that and some gibberish on how a Skywalker must save the galaxy and only Cade can do it (why is never made clear) which resembles the Chosen One prophecy.

 

They also did Hans arc again with Lando in the OT too

 

Cade Skywalker? That the guy with the ponytail and earrings, kinda looks like Brett Michaels?