Josh the Facts

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by RolandofGilead, Oct 25, 2004.

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  1. jag29 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2002
    star 3
    If this is true then Anakin really isn't choosing the darkside at this point. He's choosing to try and keep Padme alive. Later on the darkside inside him consumes him and then it is too late.

    If he is to dream Padme's death, I don't think he see's himself killing her. In my opinion he see's her die, but not by his hands or maybe he witnesses her funeral.

    Jag29
  2. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    If this is true then Anakin really isn't choosing the darkside at this point. He's choosing to try and keep Padme alive. Later on the darkside inside him consumes him and then it is too late.

    Yeah, I think that's it. GL himself says that "that need for power goes from trying to save the one you love, to realising you can control the universe" - as his power grows, so does his amibition, until he desires nothing more than to control the galaxy himself. Anyone who gets in the way that ambition has to die - wife and best friend included. Palpatine would have been on his hit-list, too, had Vader not been crippled.

    As for the specifics of the dream, I agree he won't see himself killing her. He'll just see her dead.
  3. THEFORCEROCKS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, I think that's it. GL himself says that "that need for power goes from trying to save the one you love, to realising you can control the universe" - as his power grows, so does his amibition, until he desires nothing more than to control the galaxy himself. Anyone who gets in the way that ambition has to die - wife and best friend included. Palpatine would have been on his hit-list, too, had Vader not been crippled.

    As for the specifics of the dream, I agree he won't see himself killing her. He'll just see her dead.


    Well if he does than that is pathetic and I have no sympathy for that. I mean why would he side with Palpatine knowing Padme does not like him, its like dude how stupid can you be?!!
  4. jag29 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2002
    star 3
    The sympathy comes in because Anakin is doing this for the people he loves. This aids in his downfall. The connections he has. The desires he has.

    I would definitely kill for the protection of my family.

    Jag29
  5. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    If he is to dream Padme's death, I don't think he see's himself killing her. In my opinion he see's her die, but not by his hands or maybe he witnesses her funeral.

    But... in the TPM novelization, he did dream about a great battle and a huge army advancing on him with Padme at the head of the army. That is, they were on enemies in the battle. This was the morning of the podrace. There was even a deleted scene.

    Is it possible that GL will reuse this "dream idea" from TPM in RotS?
  6. THEFORCEROCKS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2004
    star 4
    The sympathy comes in because Anakin is doing this for the people he loves. This aids in his downfall. The connections he has. The desires he has.

    I would definitely kill for the protection of my family.


    Yeah but to protect your family why would you side with the enemy? especially if you know your wife does not like him? Who was going to protect Padme Palpatine with his clone trooper army? I mean thats dumb, the only protection she had(the jedi) stupid anakin killed off.
  7. jag29 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2002
    star 3
    I think your missing the point here. Just before the Mace duel Palpatine tells the story of Darth Plageuis. How he was able to cheat death. For Anakin to keep Padme alive(cheat death) he needs Palpatine alive. Thus he must kill Mace to do this. If not Mace will off Palpatine. What Anakin doesn't know is that in helping Palpatine he dooms Padme to death.

    Jag29
  8. VanillaZinger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2003
    star 4
    If this is true then Anakin really isn't choosing the darkside at this point. He's choosing to try and keep Padme alive.

    He's choosing the Dark Side in order to save Padme. The road to Hell and all that.

    I wonder if she's doomed from the get-go? And does she know it? And does anyone else except Anakin foresee it?

    Things do seem to be coming together now. Awesome.
  9. Darth_Punk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 4
    The more I think about it the more it makes sense.

    Especially if at the end it is Anakin who kills her as a Jedi. That would make him hate the Jedi even more, including himself, thus, "that name no longer has any meaning...."
  10. tkip Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 3
    This scenerio might give that spoiler report with Anakin waking up in the suit and going ballastic when Sidious tells him of Padme's death, some more tragic irony.

    Bad enough that she died. Worse still that you killed her but that she died as a result of your actions in an attempt to avert her death as foreshadowed in the *dream* and leading to her death at your own hands anyways?

    I would do some serious screaming myself......
  11. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    How does Sidious know Padme is dead, and that Anakin killed her?
  12. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    When the rumors of this Darth Plageuis guy first came out everyone assumed Anakin wanted these powers for his own selfish reasons.

    When after TPM and AOTC its so obvious that he would want them to save the loved ones around him.

    "He gives of himself with no thought of reward"

    "I wasn't strong enough to save you mom, but I promise I won't fail you again."

    "I will even learn to stop people from dying."
  13. Helmet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2001
    star 5
    Sidious and Vader set up the same trap for Luke. Always go after the good guys friends or loved ones.

  14. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    "I will even learn to stop people from dying."

    Wow - if this is true, watching some of these scenes in TPM and AotC is going to be a lot more powerful.
  15. DarthScubbles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2004
    star 4
    "I will even learn to stop people from dying."

    Wow - if this is true, watching some of these scenes in TPM and AotC is going to be a lot more powerful.


    Are you saying that it did not even cross your mind before now that that was the whole point of this blatantly obvious foreshadowing statement. Especially coming from the person you already knew was seduced by the dark side.
  16. Tyelpenor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2003
    star 2
    The line of Sidious in ROTJ seems even better now. It's the exact same trap!

    "I am defenceles. Take your Jedi weapon! Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the Dark Side will be complete!" ... "It is the only way you can save your friends."

    Assuming the spoilers are true (which I think they are) ROTS will be spookingly familiar... [face_devil]
  17. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    Are you saying that it did not even cross your mind before now that that was the whole point of this blatantly obvious foreshadowing statement. Especially coming from the person you already knew was seduced by the dark side.

    No, I already knew the meaning of that statement - but back in summer 2002 I didn't expect Anakin to have a prophetic dream about Padme dying and then murder her at the end of the movie. ;)
  18. OBIWAN-JR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2002
    star 6
    So in AOTC, Anakin talks to Obi-Wan about his dreams of his mother and Kenobi tells him: "Dreams pass, in time." Anakins mother dies.

    From what we know, in ROTS, Anakin awakes from a nightmare again (possibly about Padme) and this time he goes to see Palpatine at the opera. And Palpatine gives Anakin the answers he has desired ever since his mother died.

    Something the Jedi could not, or would not give him.

    Excellent. Devious swine, that Sidious.

    Well done George.


    -JR :)
  19. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    Sidious is indeed a powerful master of evil:

    He 'insidiously' attains his personal Sith goals primarily through his orchestrating the actions of unsuspecting others:

    - Sids tells people precisely what they wish to hear!
    - Others see that which they wish or expect to see!
    - He causes and then manipulates galactic emergencies which only he can fix!
    - Sids pits one against the other, group against group, all to weaken the power of others while simultaneously increasing his own!
    - He uses everyone, all are at his mercy, bound by his pervasive, well coordinated and flawless, patiently executed web of deceit.

    Yoda, having experienced both Sidious' manipulative AND tremendous hate-filled physical powers, fully realizes the awesome one/two punch of the dark side -- deception backed by incredible lethal force. This is likely what is behind Master Yoda's future warning to young Luke on Dagobah!
  20. jag29 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2002
    star 3
    Vanilla,

    In my opinion I don't think Anakin assumes he's choosing the darkside. I believe in his mind that he's trying to save Padme from dying. At all costs if need be. Even at the expense of Master Windu.

    Jag29
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    "This is obviously a very pivotal scene for Anakin because this is reuniting with his mother and his youth and at the same time dealing with his inability to let go of his emotions and allow himself to accept the inevitable. The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can't hold onto things which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn't willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he'd have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn't have this particular connection as strong as it is and he'd have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them. But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation. And it feeds into fear of losing things, which feeds into greed, wanting to keep things, wanting to keep his possessions and things that he should be letting go of. His fear of losing her turns to anger at losing her, which ultimately turns to revenge in wiping out the village. The scene with the Tusken Raiders is the first scene that ultimately takes him on the road to the Dark Side. I mean he's been prepping for this, but that's the one where he's sort of doing something that is completely inappropriate."
    --George Lucas

    "The scene in the garage here, we begin to see that what he's really upset about is the fact that he's not powerful enough. That if he had more power, he could've kept his mother. He could've saved her and she could've been in his life. That relationship could've stayed there if he'd have been just powerful enough. He's greedy in that he wants to keep his mother around, he's greedy in that he wants to become more powerful in order to control things in order to keep the things around that he wants. There's a lot of connections here with the beginning of him sliding into the Dark Side. And it also shows his jealousy and anger at Obi-Wan and blaming everyone else for his inability to be as powerful as he wants to be, which he hears that he will be, so here he sort of lays out his ambition and you'll see later on his ambition and his dialogue here is the same as Dooku's. He says "I will become more powerful than every Jedi." And you'll hear later on Dooku will say "I have become more powerful than any Jedi." So you're going start to see everybody saying the same thing. And Dooku is kind of the fallen Jedi who was converted to the Dark Side because the other Sith Lord didn't have time to start from scratch, and so we can see that that's where this is going to lead which is that it is possible for a Jedi to be converted. It is possible for a Jedi to want to become more powerful, and control things. Because of that, and because he was unwilling to let go of his mother, because he was so attached to her, he committed this terrible revenge on the Tusken Raiders."
    --George Lucas

    "The key part of this scene ultimately is Anakin saying "I'm not going to let this happen again." We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi. The only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark Side because the Dark Side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the Dark Side, but ultimately it would be your undoing. But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and to allow the natural course of life to go on, which is that things come and go, and to be able to accept the changes that happen around you and not want to keep moments forever frozen in time."
    --George Lucas

    "As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance. It's easier to succumb to evil than it is to be a hero and try to work things through on the good side. Evil is inherently more powerful?it doesn't have the burden of worrying about other people. What
  22. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5

    "This is your chance!" But Palpatine wasn't afraid. Mace could feel it - it seemed as though he wasn't worried at all.

    JG


    It's true, the DS is in ROTS.

    JG


    Well, well, well - Josh snuck in some tidbits into some locked threads prior to lockage.

    Does Palps tell Mace to basically take a shot at him? Ho ho!
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
  24. DarthLaettner Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2004
    The reason Palps isn't afraid is probably because Anakin is right behind Mace. But maybe Mace will figure that out(judging from the quote) and manage to react before getting stabbed in the back.

    But of course it's 2 on 1 at that point and Mace will be doomed.
  25. Reckonboy05 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2004
    star 1
    I must say that was a nice little stocking stuffer before Christmas!
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