CT Joss Whedon Doesn’t Like the Ending to Empire Strikes Back

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by LordGarthNader, Aug 23, 2013.

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  1. LordGarthNader Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
  2. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    I hate you too Whedon [face_devil]
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  3. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    He seems to have forgotten that Star Wars is episodic. That's its shtick.
    Ordo N-11 and Mr. K like this.
  4. Darth Eddie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2013
    star 3
    Joss Whedon is wrong about this.

    A cliffhanger ending is not a "betrayal of trust" - it's a promise to return.
  5. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    I've always thought that Joss Whedon is hugely overrated and not deserving of the cult worship he receives. This is just yet more evidence of that.
  6. Seagoat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2013
    star 4
    I think he fails to grasp the point.

    Star Wars isn't meant to be seen as individual movies or even in trilogies. It's a saga, an operatic space epoch. Each "episode" is an episode only in the context of the real world, not in-universe. It really is one big collective. And as a result... none of us have seen the entire thing yet ;)

    At least, none of us can say that until at least 2019
    Last edited by Seagoat, Aug 23, 2013
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  7. Hando Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2013
    star 2
    He of the insanely over rated Serenity and overly polished head has just confirmed he's an idiot. :p

    Sour grapes for not getting SW VII maybe?
  8. Sur-Gon Jinn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2013

    of the Jedi?
  9. Darth Eddie Jedi Grand Master

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    May 14, 2013
    star 3
    Aahh! -This guy, he gets it.
  10. Vthuil Force Ghost

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    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Unlike apparently everyone else in this thread, I more or less like Joss Whedon. But I'm nonetheless really baffled by how someone who's worked on half-a-dozen or so TV shows of the non-episodic type can be so offended by the idea of a film not wrapping everything up by its end. Especially when that film is explicitly part of a series.
  11. TX-20 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 3
    I guess Joss forgot that old saying: If you don't have anything nice to say about Star Wars it's because you are STUPID AND A HATER AND YOU PROBABLY KICK PUPPIES!
  12. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    Who cares what Joss Whedon feels about the ending to ESB? I certainly don't. His opinion isn't worth getting into a frenzy over. Trust me.
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  13. Granger Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    The interviewer should have asked the obvious follow up question: If that's a betrayal of audience trust then why is it more or less universally hailed as among the greatest sequels in cinema history?
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  14. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Wow. He didn't even get to the opening crawl before losing the point. Why the hell does he think it says "Episode V" at the very beginning? Seems pretty clear to me this is an adventure serial. The only film that appears to have loose ends tied up is ROTJ- which now having Ep. 7 looming on the horizon, that clearly that isn't so. All of the other episodes have unresolved situations at the end. I was kind of bummed that JJ got the directing gig over Whedon until I heard of this. If he's this disillusioned about the episodic nature essential to the SW storytelling narrative, then he has NO BUSINESS having any creative input in any of these films.

    (Watch this doofus get the job directing Ep. 8 & I'll be eating my words....)
  15. GGrievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    I honestly don't care what he says. That's the point of the cliffhanger ending. If it didn't meet his expectations, then too bad.
  16. Lawrence Futol Jedi Master

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    Mar 8, 2013
    People have to remember back in 1980 they had to wait three years for the next movie to come out. Three years to find out what will happen to Han Solo and if Vader was telling the truth about being Luke's father. They didn't have the luxury of just putting on the Return of the Jedi videotape or DVD or Blu Ray to find out what happens next. We can all say Star Wars is "based on episodic serial" but when they did that it was back when audiences only waited a week! I could see why at the time Joss would be kind of annoyed by the cliffhanger ending.That's why nowadays when they do have a cliffhanger in a movie, it's when the next one will be within six months(like Back To the Future Part III) or a year like Lord of the Rings because an audience wouldn't tolerate anything more than that. It was a huge risk on Lucas' part. Looking at this board it obviously worked out because the next generation of viewers now love the movie's ending.
    Last edited by Lawrence Futol, Aug 24, 2013
  17. squir1y Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2003
    star 2
    Well that's his problem, not ours.
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  18. Paparazzo Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 31, 2011
    star 2
  19. Lawrence Futol Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2013
    Joss at least says it's a good sequel other than the ending. There are some people(older people) who don't consider Empire a great movie at all.

    True but for TV you only have to wrap it up for next week or even just three months. People are really not seeing Joss' perspective on this.
    Last edited by Lawrence Futol, Aug 24, 2013
  20. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    heh....Joss Whedon has lady parts. =D=
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  21. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Yes, yes, yes. That's it exactly. I love his work. Even back on his old Firefly days, I was a definite fan. I still am (can't wait for Avengers 2), but I am gobsmacked that the concept of an episodic storytelling arc in film is such a hard pill for him to swallow.

    I can understand being disappointed that you have to wait to find out what happens next. Hell, I waited 15 years between ROTJ and TPM! I have no problem with him not liking it- to each his own. But to say that not having everything tied up nicely at the end of each film was a terrible mistake and was a betrayal of audience trust just hits me the wrong way. He says "...it's not an ending. It's a Come Back Next Week, or in three years" No kidding. Couldn't piece that together when it said EPISODE V, Joss? I respect his perspective, I just think it's wrong.
    Vthuil likes this.
  22. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    It's also worth noting that ESB doesn't actually have a true cliff-hanger ending - not in the fashion of most TV cliffhangers or the old 30s film serials. Not everything is wrapped up, Han's fate is uncertain, and the protagonists "lose", but it's not like the film ended immediately after "I am your father" or with Luke dangling from the weather vane (or whatever that thing is) either. So waiting three years for the resolution isn't as "bad" as it might be anyway.
    Last edited by Vthuil, Aug 24, 2013
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  23. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    Calm down fellow SW fans, its just his opinion as I have never seen a fan base get so bent out of shape when someone doesn't love our beloved franchise.

    If anyone was there in 1980, there were people that were very mad there was no ending to ESB. I say this cause I know a few people who still complain about to me as they will say the original is the best simply cause its a standalone movie.

    I go back and forth a lot on which is a better way to tell a story through movies: Indiana Jones standalone movies or Star Wars continuous movies? I will say I always watch the original SW the most because its a standalone movie and most satisfying.
    Last edited by Carbon1985, Aug 24, 2013
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  24. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    I keep thinking about how ridiculous an idea it would be if the rebel alliance beat the empire in all 3 movies, and I have to wonder, what exactly did Whedon want for the ending?
    I personally hated Angel, and Firefly, but I loved Avengers. I truthfully have no idea what else he's done. I'm not a follower of the man's career in the least. I'm just not sure what
    he was getting at. Would discovering the truth about Vader and Luke have made it a better ending? Would a rebel victory have done it? Rescuing Solo?

    I don't really see TESB as having been any less an ending than ANH. Vader was still alive at the end of ANH, there was still an emperor, and an evil Empire.
    Last edited by Aegon Starcaster, Aug 24, 2013
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  25. Lawrence Futol Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2013
    It's pretty common now but it was pretty new in 1980.
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