CT Joss Whedon Doesn’t Like the Ending to Empire Strikes Back

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by LordGarthNader, Aug 23, 2013.

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  1. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    How exactly did Avengers not live up to your "high standards"? I'll tell you what I once told a date who I was taking to see Transformers:

    "This ain't Casablanca. There ain't going to be any Academy Awards for Best Screenplay. We're going to see a movie about robots that turn in to cars and trucks and planes and then fight each other. Judge the movie accordingly."

    Avengers was a great movie for what it was supposed to be. It's not Gone With The Wind. It's not Casablanca. It is a summer action comic book movie, and easily among the best ever in that genre.
  2. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I did not browse through the thread since it started though i did notice it long ago. So excuse me if anyone else mentioned this already.

    “[Empire Strikes Back] committed the cardinal sin of not actually ending. Which at the time I was appalled by and I still think it was a terrible idea.”

    “Well, it’s not an ending. It’s a Come Back Next Week, or in three years. And that upsets me. I go to movies expecting to have a whole experience. If I want a movie that doesn’t end I’ll go to a French movie. That’s a betrayal of trust to me. A movie has to be complete within itself, it can’t just build off the first one or play variations.

    It's called a three act play.At the end of act 2 the lead characters are left in a very bad place and must overcome it which is what act 3 is for. If he really does not like that or thinks that is not worthy of film then he needs to stay away from Star Wars.
  3. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    See my previous comment.

    And what exactly was it supposed to be that makes it okay to ignore a good story, character development and so on? The movie was made to join a bunch of superheroes, fine. That doesn't excuse what the movie lacks.

    Who's asking for those anyway? Poor strawman.

    In your opinion. Mine is different. As far as superhero movies go, it's near the bottom of my list.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Sep 18, 2013
  4. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion but I assure you, it is in the extreme minority amongst those of us who enjoy the genre. And if you place it "near the bottom" then you've obviously not watched many comic book movies. If someone doesn't say it's one of the best ever, that's fine, but it is nowhere near the putrid idiocy of such gems as Superman III, Superman IV, Batman and Robin, Batman Forever, Supergirl, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Ghost Rider 2, Wolverine, Steel, Catwoman, Elektra, Green Lantern, The Punisher (Dolph Lundgren version), The Punisher (Tom Jane version). And don't even get me started on the not-so-serious comic book movies like Howard the Duck, TMNT sequels or direct-to-video versions of Captain America and The Fantastic Four from the early 90's.

    If you place Avengers "near the bottom" of your list, then I doubt you've ever even seen 3 of the above movies I mentioned. It's obviously a genre you're just not that familiar with.
    Last edited by Beezer, Sep 18, 2013
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  5. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Being in the minority doesn't make my opinion less valid.

    Really? Where's the correlation?

    In your opinion.

    Source and correlation?

    Well, one thing that's obvious is that you don't know about my knowledge of celluloid or the vast catalogue of movies I've seen. Many of those are at the bottom of my list, some of those are near the bottom (like the Avengers), and I consider some others better than Avengers.
  6. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I hope you're both aware that this really has nothing to do with the original topic?
    Darkslayer likes this.
  7. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Like I stated on my first reply.
  8. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Actually, yeah, it kinda does. Someone who has not seen the movie is going to be more likely to listen to the 99% of people who liked it.
    I don't think that word means what you think it does.
    OK then please enlighten me. Which of the movies I listed are better than The Avengers?
  9. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Well, it's not that far off. The subject of the thread is Joss Whedon's opinion on E5. That led to my statement that he could certainly be involved with a future SW project, which led to a discussion of his work with Avengers.
  10. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    And like I - and numerous other people - have stated, someone's general opinion of Joss Whedon really should have no bearing on whether or not they agree with this one particular thing he said. And as for this point:

    Saying that it matters what he thinks of ESB because he might direct a future SW movie makes sense, but this is not the all-purpose "evaluate Joss Whedon as a possible spin-off director" thread.

    Seriously, you're just arguing entirely about The Avengers now. This really doesn't even belong in the SW section of the forums anymore.
  11. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    I don't think it's really that important for Joss Whedon to "like" the ending of "THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK". Even if he might direct a future SW movie. He simply disliked the ending. That's all. And if he cannot deal with a future SW movie with a cliffhanger, then Kennedy and the Disney people should simply find another director. It's not the end of the world if Whedon dislikes the ESB ending.
    Last edited by DRush76, Sep 18, 2013
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  12. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    What?

    Irrelevant. Even if 99% of people liked the movie (which is not true) the validity of an opinion has nothing to do with being able to convince someone to watch (not like or dislike) a movie.

    I certainly do, but you were the one who wasn't able to show it.

    I won't do that because: first, it's way off-topic; and second, whatever I say is going to cause a pointless disagreement which won't prove anyone right or wrong. If you want to carry on this discussion, use private messages.
  13. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    There is a good story. Loki wants revenge for his brother's betrayal and agreed to initiate an invasion force on Earth, for Thanos. Nick Fury decides to assemble the Avengers to combat it and the team has trouble getting along, because they're used to working alone or with those that they had a chemistry with. Character development? Plenty there. Tony Stark finally decides it's okay to work with others. Steve Rogers has to accept that the world is different from what he knew. Thor wants to save his brother from himself. Nick Fury realizes that his gamble worked, but may have made things worse. Bruce Banner decides to stop running.
    CaptainHamYoyo likes this.
  14. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    I realize that this is slightly off topic, but exactly how is Nick Fury to be blamed for making things worse?
    Last edited by DRush76, Sep 19, 2013
  15. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    And no. Discuss the post, not the poster.
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Sep 19, 2013
  16. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    +1. And if the sequel trilogy is as well written and well directed as Avengers, there will be an overwhelmingly happy fan base. I would feel very comfortable hearing Whedon signed on for a future episode.
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  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    The implication is that the government isn't happy about the Avengers being a team and considers him to be at fault for it, and for what may come as a result.
  18. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Challenge? More like pointless off-topic.

    Oh, because those who have a different opinion than yours are 'silly'. Very weak ad hominem.

    Feel free to doubt as much as you like. Your opinion of what a bad comic book movie is is far from being a fact.
  19. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Still no.
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Sep 19, 2013
  20. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    I've gotta stand up for Batman Forever here. While not near the genius of Tim Burton's previous films, it was still a great flick. It seems like it gets a lot of retroactive hate after that whole Batman and Robin thing happened...

    Back on topic, Whedon has a unique opinion, and at least he backs it up. But I don't like that he's suggesting that all films should follow a similar mold. God forbid Empire tries something different.
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  21. TX-20 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 3
    I can't wait to see the discussions when the ST and Spin-off/Origin films do something different and "Purists" freak out.

    "What is this crap? Slow-mo in a Star Wars film!? No Wipes?! Likeable, non-wooded characters!? F-Bomb that noise! I'm going back to real Star Wars. Y'all can have this abomination of cinema. Disney Did Something Bad To My Adulthood!!!"
    Darkslayer likes this.
  22. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    Well, there's one way to head it all off before it begins.

    Member #1: I don't like this!

    Member #2: You should!

    Member #3: everyone's entitled to their own opinions.

    Member #4: There's nothing left to discuss.

    Member #5: Any other line of thought.

    Ahhh. I've demonstrated the usual course of discussion, so that the rest of you don't have to. :)
    Last edited by Aegon Starcaster, Sep 20, 2013
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  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    They better keep the wipes!!!
  24. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    Joss has scored additional points in my book! Could never hate him anyways, he gave us The Avengers!
    darklordoftech likes this.
  25. MasterJedi92 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Who cares what Joss thinks ?
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