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CT Joss Whedon Doesn’t Like the Ending to Empire Strikes Back

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by LordGarthNader, Aug 23, 2013.

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  1. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2013
    How exactly did Avengers not live up to your "high standards"? I'll tell you what I once told a date who I was taking to see Transformers:

    "This ain't Casablanca. There ain't going to be any Academy Awards for Best Screenplay. We're going to see a movie about robots that turn in to cars and trucks and planes and then fight each other. Judge the movie accordingly."

    Avengers was a great movie for what it was supposed to be. It's not Gone With The Wind. It's not Casablanca. It is a summer action comic book movie, and easily among the best ever in that genre.
     
  2. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent 2017 Celebrity Deathpool Winner star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    I did not browse through the thread since it started though i did notice it long ago. So excuse me if anyone else mentioned this already.

    “[Empire Strikes Back] committed the cardinal sin of not actually ending. Which at the time I was appalled by and I still think it was a terrible idea.”

    “Well, it’s not an ending. It’s a Come Back Next Week, or in three years. And that upsets me. I go to movies expecting to have a whole experience. If I want a movie that doesn’t end I’ll go to a French movie. That’s a betrayal of trust to me. A movie has to be complete within itself, it can’t just build off the first one or play variations.

    It's called a three act play.At the end of act 2 the lead characters are left in a very bad place and must overcome it which is what act 3 is for. If he really does not like that or thinks that is not worthy of film then he needs to stay away from Star Wars.
     
  3. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    See my previous comment.

    And what exactly was it supposed to be that makes it okay to ignore a good story, character development and so on? The movie was made to join a bunch of superheroes, fine. That doesn't excuse what the movie lacks.

    Who's asking for those anyway? Poor strawman.

    In your opinion. Mine is different. As far as superhero movies go, it's near the bottom of my list.
     
  4. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2013
    Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion but I assure you, it is in the extreme minority amongst those of us who enjoy the genre. And if you place it "near the bottom" then you've obviously not watched many comic book movies. If someone doesn't say it's one of the best ever, that's fine, but it is nowhere near the putrid idiocy of such gems as Superman III, Superman IV, Batman and Robin, Batman Forever, Supergirl, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Ghost Rider 2, Wolverine, Steel, Catwoman, Elektra, Green Lantern, The Punisher (Dolph Lundgren version), The Punisher (Tom Jane version). And don't even get me started on the not-so-serious comic book movies like Howard the Duck, TMNT sequels or direct-to-video versions of Captain America and The Fantastic Four from the early 90's.

    If you place Avengers "near the bottom" of your list, then I doubt you've ever even seen 3 of the above movies I mentioned. It's obviously a genre you're just not that familiar with.
     
    kubricklynch likes this.
  5. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Being in the minority doesn't make my opinion less valid.

    Really? Where's the correlation?

    In your opinion.

    Source and correlation?

    Well, one thing that's obvious is that you don't know about my knowledge of celluloid or the vast catalogue of movies I've seen. Many of those are at the bottom of my list, some of those are near the bottom (like the Avengers), and I consider some others better than Avengers.
     
  6. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    I hope you're both aware that this really has nothing to do with the original topic?
     
    Darkslayer likes this.
  7. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Like I stated on my first reply.
     
  8. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2013
    Actually, yeah, it kinda does. Someone who has not seen the movie is going to be more likely to listen to the 99% of people who liked it.
    I don't think that word means what you think it does.
    OK then please enlighten me. Which of the movies I listed are better than The Avengers?
     
  9. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2013
    Well, it's not that far off. The subject of the thread is Joss Whedon's opinion on E5. That led to my statement that he could certainly be involved with a future SW project, which led to a discussion of his work with Avengers.
     
  10. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    And like I - and numerous other people - have stated, someone's general opinion of Joss Whedon really should have no bearing on whether or not they agree with this one particular thing he said. And as for this point:

    Saying that it matters what he thinks of ESB because he might direct a future SW movie makes sense, but this is not the all-purpose "evaluate Joss Whedon as a possible spin-off director" thread.

    Seriously, you're just arguing entirely about The Avengers now. This really doesn't even belong in the SW section of the forums anymore.
     
  11. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008

    I don't think it's really that important for Joss Whedon to "like" the ending of "THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK". Even if he might direct a future SW movie. He simply disliked the ending. That's all. And if he cannot deal with a future SW movie with a cliffhanger, then Kennedy and the Disney people should simply find another director. It's not the end of the world if Whedon dislikes the ESB ending.
     
    TX-20 likes this.
  12. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    What?

    Irrelevant. Even if 99% of people liked the movie (which is not true) the validity of an opinion has nothing to do with being able to convince someone to watch (not like or dislike) a movie.

    I certainly do, but you were the one who wasn't able to show it.

    I won't do that because: first, it's way off-topic; and second, whatever I say is going to cause a pointless disagreement which won't prove anyone right or wrong. If you want to carry on this discussion, use private messages.
     
  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    There is a good story. Loki wants revenge for his brother's betrayal and agreed to initiate an invasion force on Earth, for Thanos. Nick Fury decides to assemble the Avengers to combat it and the team has trouble getting along, because they're used to working alone or with those that they had a chemistry with. Character development? Plenty there. Tony Stark finally decides it's okay to work with others. Steve Rogers has to accept that the world is different from what he knew. Thor wants to save his brother from himself. Nick Fury realizes that his gamble worked, but may have made things worse. Bruce Banner decides to stop running.
     
    CaptainHamYoyo likes this.
  14. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 25, 2008
    I realize that this is slightly off topic, but exactly how is Nick Fury to be blamed for making things worse?
     
  15. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2013
    And no. Discuss the post, not the poster.
     
  16. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2013
    +1. And if the sequel trilogy is as well written and well directed as Avengers, there will be an overwhelmingly happy fan base. I would feel very comfortable hearing Whedon signed on for a future episode.
     
    Darkslayer and CaptainHamYoyo like this.
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    The implication is that the government isn't happy about the Avengers being a team and considers him to be at fault for it, and for what may come as a result.
     
  18. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Challenge? More like pointless off-topic.

    Oh, because those who have a different opinion than yours are 'silly'. Very weak ad hominem.

    Feel free to doubt as much as you like. Your opinion of what a bad comic book movie is is far from being a fact.
     
  19. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2013
    Still no.
     
  20. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2012
    I've gotta stand up for Batman Forever here. While not near the genius of Tim Burton's previous films, it was still a great flick. It seems like it gets a lot of retroactive hate after that whole Batman and Robin thing happened...

    Back on topic, Whedon has a unique opinion, and at least he backs it up. But I don't like that he's suggesting that all films should follow a similar mold. God forbid Empire tries something different.
     
    Darth_Pevra and TX-20 like this.
  21. TX-20

    TX-20 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 21, 2013
    I can't wait to see the discussions when the ST and Spin-off/Origin films do something different and "Purists" freak out.

    "What is this crap? Slow-mo in a Star Wars film!? No Wipes?! Likeable, non-wooded characters!? F-Bomb that noise! I'm going back to real Star Wars. Y'all can have this abomination of cinema. Disney Did Something Bad To My Adulthood!!!"
     
    Darkslayer likes this.
  22. Aegon Starcaster

    Aegon Starcaster Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Well, there's one way to head it all off before it begins.

    Member #1: I don't like this!

    Member #2: You should!

    Member #3: everyone's entitled to their own opinions.

    Member #4: There's nothing left to discuss.

    Member #5: Any other line of thought.

    Ahhh. I've demonstrated the usual course of discussion, so that the rest of you don't have to. :)
     
    lbr789 and Darth_Pevra like this.
  23. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    They better keep the wipes!!!
     
  24. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 26, 2013
    Joss has scored additional points in my book! Could never hate him anyways, he gave us The Avengers!
     
    darklordoftech likes this.
  25. MasterJedi92

    MasterJedi92 Jedi Youngling

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    Sep 25, 2013
    Who cares what Joss thinks ?
     
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