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Toronto Just cloning around with an idea here...

Discussion in 'Canada Discussion Boards' started by Darth_Digital, May 23, 2002.

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  1. Darth_Digital

    Darth_Digital Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2001
    I`m still stuck in this debate with my associates in the Force.net forums.

    Question; Are the Stormtroopers in the Original trilogy clones too?

    Folks; give me some input. I`m leaning in the direction that they are, but I have some reservations.

    What do you all think?

    :)
     
  2. prof_frink

    prof_frink Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 1999
    Well - there was this article a long time ago saying that they were... personally - I like the idea that the clones go crazy (they become unstable) and as a final touch of winning over the rebublic, palpatine says he'll create an army of actual humans from the members of the rebublic - and wins everyone over - because it was the Jedi that ordered the clones - not him...

    I like that theory - it would lend credence to the fact that the storm troopers seem like a bunch of idiots - much like the american army...
     
  3. The_Last_Warrior

    The_Last_Warrior Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 6, 2002

    Doubtful. Even though there were mentions in the OT about the Clone Wars having occurred, there was never any mention that the remnants of the clones were around or anything else like that.

    Plus, stormtroopers sounded diferently, whereas clone troopers all sound *pretty* much the same.

    I would bet old Palps used the clones to take control, but then just recruited from there.

    Also, in ANH, Luke mentions he and Biggs were supposed to go the Imperial academy. Why would there be an academy if no one could join except clones? Why not just call it the Clone Academy for Higher Learning....

    I'm with you. I think it would be cooler if the clones were more involved that way, but I think there is too much evidence against it.
     
  4. Duker_Duck

    Duker_Duck Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2001
    it simple, growing and training clone troopers got repetitive. And with a five year cycle for just one somewhat inefficient lest your clones drop like guys in red shirts on TOS.
    Meanwhile training full grown people enables you to have a fully trained officer in about a year (maybe less), on top of that you get alsorts of amusing antics.
     
  5. Darth_Digital

    Darth_Digital Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2001
    Yeah, I agree with you guys on this.

    I have a few contriddictions though, and that`s whats bothering me.

    Take the symbols on the shirts of the 5 year old, and 10 year old clones.

    Now compare that trademark (0II) on the backs of the classic troops.

    I wonder if that`s suggesting a
    "generation #2" label sort of thing.

    Then we have Leia`s "A little short for a stormtrooper" line. Suggesting that all are the same height.

    Then the similiar voice overs for the troops in Episode 4.

    Furthermore, you`ll note how the loyalty of a stormtrooper is absolute. As if its programmed into them. Something touched upon in episode 2.

    ****

    Now I too heard about the clones going nutty...but like the tails of Obi-wan`s relation to Owen, and Palpatine never meeting Yoda, that could be blown away in Episode 3....

    ****

    If they were clones, then they would obey without question, and know no fear.

    And yet they broke ranks and panicked when Solo went a running, blaster blazing....

    *Shrugs*

    So you tell me...

    Personally, I fail to see why they wouldn`t change the armor design entirely. If the clones do indeed cause more trouble then their worth, then the Emprie wouldn`t adopt the same visage so easily...

    Would you slap on Swastika on a modern day german officer?

     
  6. Duker_Duck

    Duker_Duck Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2001
    it's called recycling. And judging by the clon troppers in Ep II the armor did some good for them. Just became outdated later on.
     
  7. Elewyn

    Elewyn Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2002

    As it relates to the OT While the stormtroopers may all seem alike, its true that they're not and are in fact recuruted. Han Solo himself was supposed to go off to the imperial end to become one, but luckily thought better of it.

    Perhaps some are clones, following the war though, who would know?? Given that one assumes the majority would be wiped out. I think the fact that these are NOT clones gives more depth to the trilogy, like in any war, it forces people to think of those on the otherside, these are young men who are either invested in the idelogy of the empire or are not in a feasible position to defect. One would assume they all have ideas and values and families and histories. Hence while we all cheer the rebels for moral reasons, one must think that every time a stormtrooper falls, that is perhaps that same rebel's cousin or schoolmate.

    Once again in every war there are two sides, which makes it not so much a glory fest but rather a circle of despair doomed to repeat itself and choreographed by some higher power.

    Just a little food for thought as in my humble opinion, the point of Star Wars is not necessarily good against evil in some large scale sense, but the fight against oneself when confronted with a universe changing before it can be understood.
     
  8. Psiberian

    Psiberian Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2000
    There was actually a short comic story in Star Wars Tales # 10 a few months ago about some guy who was in training to be a Stormtrooper. It was written by Garth Ennis, and it was a good, if somewhat brutal, story of what a person has to go through to become a Stormtrooper. The main character, who is definitely not a clone, makes it through the training, though there's a great ironic ending that I don't want to spoil if you haven't read it. ;)

    This book came out in December, so AotC was already mostly filmed, and I assume that most SW writers had the information from the movie avalable to them. I guess this means that at least some of the Stormtroopers are not clones.

    On a side note: If the clones are speed aged so that they grow to (20? 30?) years in just ten years, do they stop aging once they hit the optimal age, or do they continue aging fast, which would mean each batch of clones would only be good for a few years before they get too old and need to be replaced?
     
  9. Woofer

    Woofer Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 2001
    I think Stormtroopers are remnants of the original clones.

    There is apparently a line in the novel about how they need to keep Jango around on Kamino to keep the gene pool strong because you get a form of genetic weakness after X number of clones.

    Now with Jango dead, the clone source will be in trouble. Notice the look on Dooku's face when he realized Jango died. He knew the implication for the clone army.

    They might have started making clones from clones, but that would weaken them, and by the time the events in Episode IV happen, they are shadows of their former selves, working more as a symbol, then as a real threat.

    Its possible that the Empire started recruiting "normal" humans as troopers as well to build up the ranks, and that explains the difference in voices. Since regular humans are not genetically modified the way the clones are for combat etc, they aren't as good as the original batch either.
     
  10. Master_Siphadius

    Master_Siphadius Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I guess that would support GL's statement when he mentions ( with reg to clonetroopers)
    "What we see in Episode-II,will eventually evolve into the stormtroopers"
     
  11. Dain_Bramage

    Dain_Bramage Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2002
    I think it's possible that you can have both.

    You can have some stormtroopers who are formerly clones as well as recruitment for new troops.

    A bigger question for me is if Clonetroopers were clones of Jango, wouldn't the clones (that were near perfect) have an inate ability or desire to become a bounty hunter?

    I understand that the clones were literally brainwashed, trained and controlled to act and think a certain way, but an exact clone would at least have the same quirks as Jango.
     
  12. Woofer

    Woofer Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 2001
    It was said in the movie itself. They've been genetically modified to be more subserviant.

    Boba was an unaltered copy.
     
  13. Dain_Bramage

    Dain_Bramage Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2002
    But as Dexter Jettster said, Kaminoans are good cloners. To me it would imply that they have a good standard in making clones, but not achieved perfection in the process.

    So I figure that clones can have flaws or deficiencies in them that could per se, make them "more subservient" and have an ego, attitude or other quirks that Jango had.

    I personally don't think Boba Fett was even a "perfect" clone. He maybe was unaltered but not perfect.
     
  14. Jedi_Kat

    Jedi_Kat Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2002
    I was talking to someone about this quite recently...who? I dunno, I can't remember...

    Anyway, my two cents: I don't think stormtrooopers were clones. I think by then, there were few, if any, clones left. The whole Imperial Academy argument, and also...they were SUCH bad shots! They had NOTHING on the clones of Jango! ;)
     
  15. Master_Siphadius

    Master_Siphadius Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    We'll I think we don't give the IST's enough credit here.I don't think that they were bad shots at all.in the begining of ANH they were pretty good actually, And ben tells luke about the accuracy of the Stormtroopers.
    In TESB however Vader calls for "NO DESINTIGRATIONS" the troops were merly following orders so as to shoot to miss.However when ordered to shoot to kill they did a pretty good job.Now as far as their encounter with the Ewoks was concerned, thats a different story.
     
  16. Subject Zero

    Subject Zero Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2000
    I have another theory to pop in here. Who ever said that by the OT they were all Jango's clones? It could be possible that they cloned several people by that time. And the whole thing about Han becoming a stormtrooper was in the books. GL can disregard everything he wants from the books.

    I guess we'll find out in ep 3

    :p
     
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