PT Just how powerful was Anakin in Ep. 3?

I wonder how many Coruscant light bulbs he could power?

 

"Anakin, you'll never be able to illuminate the entire Senate chamber. Don't try it."

"You underestimate my POWAHHH!"

 

fixed

 

I think Yoda and Sidious were the top. Mace/Dooku/Anakin/Obi may have all been better pure fighters, but their force powers aren't as great.

Mace is probably the 3rd most powerful during Episode 3. You could make a case for Dooku and Anakin also though.

I think Obi-Wan was slightly below the others I mentioned and roughly on par with Darth Maul (the fought a few times during the clone wars series and it was nearly always equal). I think Obi-Wan was able to defeat Anakin because he knew Anakin's preferred fighting styles and kept his wits during the fight. Anakin got reckless and got exploited. Overall I think Anakin was a slightly better duelist than Obi-Wan... just not necessarily in a head-to-head bout. Sometime during TCW, Anakin surpassed Obi-Wan imo.

 

Patrick E Wing

TCW Maul owned Kenobi 3 times with force attacks. Also defeated him with lightsaber + force combat here ;


And I agree that top three was Sidious, Yoda and Mace. Then TCW Maul and Dooku comes imo, Anakin - Obi-Wan follows.

 

Totally agree except for the part about killing the Separatist Council. They were a bunch of unarmed cowards you can't give him too much credit for slaughtering them

 

He was probably more powerfull than any of the jedi. It was his arogance that made him loose against Obi wan.

 

Allow me to explain. According the famous quote of Obi - wan Kenobi in ANH: "Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together", the Force is seen as an infinite source of energy. But it is much more than that. Indeed, the Jedi just as the Sith say that the Force has its own will which makes it a cosmic, creative entity of the universe and its inhabitants. The Jedi perceive the Force as an end in itself, so they devote their existence to "Live according to his will" while the Sith perceive it as a way to reach a goal and theirs is 'Power'. Contrary to what many think, the energy of the Force that the two sects use don't come from within themselves; they do not create it but rather, they invoke it. And the element which enables them to invoke it is the midi-chlorians. According to TPM's novel, the midi-chlorians are comprising collective consciousness and intelligence, that formed the link between everything living and the Force. as evidence, here's an excerpt from the conversation between Qui-Gon Jinn and Anakin Skywalker:
The boy nodded his understanding. "Can I ask you something?" The Jedi Master nodded. "What are midi-chlorians?"
Wind whipped at Qui-Gon's long hair, blowing strands of it across his strong face. "Midi-chlorians are microscopic life-forms that reside within the cells of all living things and communicate with the Force."
"They live inside of me?" the boy asked.
"In your cells." Qui-Gon paused. 'We are symbionts with the midi-chlorians.'
'Symbi-what?'
"Symbionts. Life-forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no. knowledge of the Force. Our midi-chlorians continually speak to us, Annie, telling us the will of the Force."
"They do?"
Qui-Gon cocked one eyebrow. "When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you."
Anakin thought about it a moment, then frowned. "I don't understand."
Qui-Gon smiled, and his eyes were warm and secretive. "With time and training, Annie, you will."
The more the rate of midi-chlorians is high, the more access to the energy of the Force is expanded. Anakin, who was conceived by the midi-chlorians and not by human contact, has the highest rate in the history of the Jedi Order (maybe even of the universe), and was, "potentially", the most powerful being in the Galaxy. But being powerful does not mean necessarily being the strongest, the best. And it is what Anakin had not understood. Whether it's among the Jedi or the Sith, having a high rate of midi-chlorians is significant only in part. The other part residing in the fervour, consecration and devotion to learn and serve respectively as the Force or the Dark Side. This is what explains Dooku while observing Grievous and his 'elite' train in the novel "Labyrinth of Evil":
"Hopeless, he thought.
But he knew that he was partly to blame. He had made the same mistake with Grievous that he had made with Ventress, by allowing her to fill herself with haste, as if hate could substitute for dispassion. Even the most hateful could be defeated. Even the most angry. There should be no. emotion in killing, no. self, only the act. When he should have been helping Ventress rid herself of self, he had instead permitted her to grow impassioned. Sidious had once confessed that he had King similarly in his training of Darth Maul. Ventress and Maul had been driven by a desire to excel-to be the best-instead of merely allowing themselves to be pure instruments of the dark side.
"The Jedi knew this about the Force: that the best of them were nothing more than instruments".
Anakin, former slave, dreamed of a life of freedom and adventure, passion and love; He thought mistakenly that this is what expecting him when he decided to follow Qui-Gon to Coruscant, but it has not been the case. He was not ready to live an austere life, to contemplate and meditate the Jedi ways and travel across the Galaxy to perform missions on behalf of the Jedi High Council. For him, it was another kind of slavery. And to express his displeasure and his disagreement with the way in which the Order was working, it boycotted more and more the teachings of his masters, in particular Obi - wan, whom he considered himself superior. This and the fact to be continually flattered by Palpatine did increase his ego, thinking that no one can beat him, while ignoring that it turned him more and more away from the Force and sank him slowly into the darkness. Indeed, among the Jedi, it isn't the energy of the Force that matters, but its spirit; the Force and the Jedi as one against evil. And this is what RotS's novel has well expressed during the brief but informative duel between Obi - wan and Grievous bodyguard:
"Instantly the box of bodyguards around Obi - Wan filled with crackling electrostaffs whipping faster than the human eye could see-which was less troublesome than it might have been for that box was already empty of Jedi.
The Force had let him collapse as though he'd suddenly fainted, then it brought his lightsaber from his belt to his hand and ignited it while he turned his fall into a roll; that roll carried his lightsaber through a crisp arc that severed the leg of one of the bodyguards, and as the Force brought Obi - Wan back to his feet, the Force also nudged the crippled bodyguard to topple sideways into the path of the blade and sent it clanging to the floor in two smoking, sparking parts.
One down.
The remaining three pressed the attack, but more cautiously. their weapons were longer than his, and they struck from beyond the reach of his blade. He gave way before them, his defensive velocities barely keeping their crackling discharge blades at bay.
Three MagnaGuards, each with a double-ended weapon that generated an energy field impervious to lightsabers, each with reflexes that operated near lightspeed, each with hypersophisticated heuristic combat algorithms that enabled it to learn from experience and adapt its tactics instantly to any situation, were certainly beyond Obi - Wan's ability to defeat, but it was not Obi - Wan who would defeat them; Obi - Wan wasn't even fighting. He was only a vessel, emptied of self. The Force, shaped by his skill and guided by his clarity of mind, fought through him".
Anakin has beaten Dooku only thanks to the ingenious manipulation of Palpatine. Otherwise, he and Obi - wan would be dead. As for his duel against Obi - wan, it is the best who won. Obi - wan, being a master of Soresu (Form III Lightsaber Techniques), was able to fully neutralize the furious attacks of Djem So (Form V) of Anakin. Being in perfect control of the fight and himself, and having the Force with him, Obi - wan could manipulate Anakin to push himself to the ultimate fault. The result, it knows by all. It was only after this crushing defeat and 19-years of apprenticeship with Sidious, that he understood the difference between POWER and CONTROL, and the need to possess these 2 qualities to actually be unbeatable. The evidence is that during his duel with Obi - wan, he has completely dominate the fight leaving Obi - wan with only one option: to sacrifice himself for that Luke, Leia, Han and the droids escape.
Thank you for reading me.

 

Anakin was around Mace and Dooku's level. IIRC the reason he gained the upper hand on Dooku was because of force rage(cause he just saw Obi-Wan get pwned ).

Obi-Wan was more like an 8(as stated by G-Canon source) and his showings prove it. He gets pwned by Dooku twice who is near equal with Mace so it makes no sense to put them on the same level as Obi-Wan and they can't be better than Yoda so I guess they're both 9's.

Anakin was stated as a 9 from a G-Canon source and I think Mace and Dooku are 9's too.

Anakin lost because of CIS. If he had just jumped to lower ground and continued fighting I believe he would've gotten the better of Kenobi sooner or later.

He was the Chosen One yes, but he didn't reached his full potential. Now, if you look at Grandmaster Luke, that's pretty much a full potential Anakin right there. So if you're just looking for potential, look no further than Grandmaster Luke. .

 

Anakin is the man and that's all there is to it.

 

Interesting question. Anakin clearly hadn't reached his full power potential (as predicted by his midichlorian count, GL's "twice as powerful" comment, etc), but he was definitely pretty far up there. My assumption is that in absolute, raw power tested in a neutral situation--using the Force to lift a heavy object or something like that--in RotS, he was slightly less powerful than Yoda or Sidious, and slightly more powerful than Obi-Wan or Mace. Some references in the EU (the RotS novel and Karen Miller's Clone Wars books come to mind) back this idea up and even suggest that he may have been able to access as much power as Yoda under stressful circumstances.

Of course, no situation that matters is actually going to be neutral, as we saw in the movie. Obi-Wan and Mace both had him beat hands-down in terms of experience and control over their abilities, so I think those would both actually be fairly even matches, if not slightly weighted against him. Age before beauty, I guess.

 

Yeah I believe Anakin was or had the most potential to be the most powerful Jedi. He was hindered by his training he received by the council for sure. He even stated that Obi Wan was holding him back. So he even knew his potential was being wasted because he knew within himself that he had abilities but wasn't able to learn them. I think the council was also hesitant to let him fully reach his potential because of the darkness they saw in his training. If he would have never became Vader, in a suit that is Sidious would have let him reach his full potential thru the dark side. Actually come to think of it, maybe Sidious wouldn't have? When Vader is suited and comes thru and realizes his situation when Sidious advises him of what happened and he yells NO! Sidious is laughing because he now has Vader on a leash. That leash being his suit. Because Sidious has him were Vader is not able to do anything because Sidious will just electrocute him and it would be over for Vader! But it is a real shame of wasted potential of Anakin who could have been the most powerful Jedi of all time.

 

Potential, skill, and power aren't the same. I agree he had potential but his lack of wisdom, balance, coupled with blinding arrogance were his own down fall and his corruption tainted the galaxy.

 

Anakin was very powerful. He defeated Dooku, only the very elite Jedi or Sidious could have stood against him. He was more powerful than Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan trained him and that gave him the edge against him until Anakin let his arrogance undo him.

 

Yeah I agree with that. He still had great potential but he let his anger, jealousy, obsession etc. get the best of him. And his potential was destroyed and any hopes of ever becoming that great Jedi he saw himself as a youngster.

 

My view is that Anakin has the potential to be the most powerful Jedi or Sith ever but that his conflicted nature prevents him (in either trilogy) from ever reaching that potential. In RotS I think he has access to incredible power. At that point I think that he's more powerful than anyone except Yoda and Sidious. However the power masters him rather than the other way around. I've always thought that they should've had a proper Mace vs Anakin duel where Anakin kills him. Sidious lowering himself to a lightsaber is just fangasm to my mind. As it is it's hard to know exactly where Mace is save that he's a very powerful Jedi but presumably no Yoda.

Anakin is more powerful than Obi Wan in terms of raw power but Obi wan is a true master of his own abilities. One thing that's noticeable in their duel is that Anakin is powerful in the sense that he is very aggressive, strong and fast and is driving Kenobi backwards for most of the time but when Kenobi counterattacks he seems to have more penetration and Anakin has to really pull something amazing out to prevent being injured. This also seems to be the case in footage of the training for the duel which has some of the stuff that was cut (can we have that back please because it looks like great stuff!). I'd also say that it's reflected further in their lightsaber styles in RotS. Anakin looks very strong, blazingly fast and extremely skillful but Obi Wan's style appears more elegant and he seems to have more finesse (I think there's a constant play on who is the better swordsman between them in the Invisible Hand section that is a real tease). This, I think is the difference between them. Anakin has more raw power but Obi Wan has greater mastery.

FWIW

 

As is often the case in Star Wars, in the end human strength trumps superhuman. Intelligence, composure, judgment and patience can sometimes make short work of a high midichlorian count.

 

That depends how one sees the midis. I see them as merely a biological device.

 

"You have to be either Yoda or Mace to compete with Sidious" ~ George Lucas, the Making of Revenge of the Sith; page 204.

So because of this, Anakin cannot be in the top 3. Sidious himself says that soon he will be stronger than either him or Yoda. The word "soon" makes it clear that he is not on that level yet.

Anakin has 4th place and 6th place simultaneously. Let me explain. Obi-Wan was unable to beat Dooku in ROTS once again. When Anakin defeated Dooku, he was able to draw on both sides of the Force because his mind was relatively clear.

When Anakin fights Obi-Wan, he is an absolute wreck because he strangled his wife and felt betrayed by his best friend & the Jedi Order. Because of this, he cannot draw from both sides of the Force.

So we have this:

Sidious
Yoda
Mace
Anakin
Dooku
Obi-Wan/Anakin (Turmoil)

 

Sidious can't beat Mace on his own so Mace has to be number one.

 

I think that's debatable. Sids merely played Anakin in 3.

 

I'm not so sure about this. I think that Obi wan goes down like a punk here in order for it to look like he'll have no chance in the final duel. It's building Anakin up as part of the drama. However, on seeing it again you should notice that the scene cuts to Palpatine supposedly cheering for Kenobi destroying some battle droids and seemingly doing so in a manner that is very projective. Kenobi has just gone around and up the other stairs in order to get behind Dooku and surprise him. However, I believe that Palaptine is warning Dooku that Kenobi is there so that instead it is he who is able to surprise Obi Wan leading to his embarrassing defeat (again...).

It's certainly understated but then that is necessary because at this point the narrative is still being treated on the basis that the audience doesn't know that Palpatine is Sidious (a very large gap from the reality of the time of course). There really doesn't appear to be any other reason for that cut away shot to Palpatine, and unless this is what is happening it doesn't actually make sense once once the audience knows that Palpatine is actually a Sith.

 

Out-of-universe: Yes, they indeed nerfed Obi-wan to make Anakin appear powerful.

In-universe: One has to infer that Dooku was still more powerful since there is nothing that firmly indicates otherwise. Although I admit, I do like your theory that Palpatine was warning Dooku about Kenobi

 

Like I said, I'm not so sure. I suspect that cut to Palpatine is intentionally there for you to make that deduction. Not on the first viewing but upon repeated viewing. When you first see it you're supposed to think Dooku has totally thrashed Kenobi. On repeated view you're supposed to see that Palpatine helps get Kenobi out of the way so that Anakin is alone with Dooku and will kill him. There just isn't any other useful dramatic purpose to that cut away (and it doesn't really make sense) which suggests that it is not what it at first appears.