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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Just in case you didn't think I was arrogant enough... (clip inside)

Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by Ryan_W, Mar 15, 2003.

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  1. Antilles01

    Antilles01 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    i just want to say something on a couple of points:

    about Dooku and Anakin swingin the sabers over their head with no noise, I agree with Zap (at least i think it was Zap) that it might have been better if they had added some clashing noises.

    Also, someone said that Ryan took out a wide shot of Dooku and ObiWan, thats the original editing, which looks a bit strange. That leads me to my second point, if anything should be changed about the lightsaber scenes, its the editing! There were times when i cringed at the editing in both ObiWans duel with Jango, and also his duel with Dooku. I get the impression they tried desparately to cut down the timeby taking out bits and pieces, but i think it showed in some places.

    For example, when ObiWan first comes at Jango, they cut when his saber was obviously swinging in an arc, to another shot where the saber was in a different position. They cut out about 3 seconds of ObiWan blocking shots (which appears in the trailer btw). I wish they would have kept that in, its a little jarring without that follow through motion.

    In conclusion, I guess we all have to learn not to concentrate on a tiny aspect of the film and just be entertained.
     
  2. Xorbo

    Xorbo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    i am sure if ryan could get an unedited version of the clip (the same shots, but without the ilm sabers), the rotoscoping he did could look a hell of a lot better than it looks, not to say it is bad now.
     
  3. MasterZap

    MasterZap Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2002
    it's a sort of tone poem


    Tone poem? TONE POEM?

    (#&¤¤ no wonder we can't get a decent movie out of the guy any more. We want some action and he makes tone poems and fart jokes. OMG.

    /Z
     
  4. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 3, 2002
    As much as I dislike the phrase "tone poem", I agree with Ryan on this issue.

    I'm guessing that sort of special thing is going to be reserved just for AOTC/ESB (given "the rhyming trilogies", as it were). Which makes me sad. I want more! :_|

    As for the editing in the duel, I still have yet to notice any editing errors. But then I'm incompetent at pointing out that stuff. (I finally noticed a mismatch edit in a professional production last week... the "Comedian" trailer... after watching it ten times in a row. Heh.)

    No comment on the fart joke in TPM though. (Worst. Five seconds in Star Wars history. Ever)



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  5. durbnpoisn

    durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database star 5 VIP

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    May 20, 2002
    No way, dude. The worst seconds in all 5 movies so far were C3PO in the battle at the end of AOTC. In fact, it was worse than all the screen time Jar Jar has combined.

    I cannot believe how much ended up on the cutting room floor so that nonsense could stay. I feel embarassed to be a fan because of those scenes.
     
  6. foxbatkllr

    foxbatkllr Jedi Knight star 6

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    Jul 27, 2001
    I love 3P0 and all of his screen time in all the films. Jar Jar's pretty cool too. You know, I'm pretty sick of many of you criticizing Lucas, especially given the quality of most fanfilms...(mine included)...thank God real filmmakers like Kevin Smith and Steven Spielberg know a good Star Wars movie when they see it.
     
  7. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 3, 2002
    I think the end battle scenes are Threepio's finest moment. I laughed. Hard.

    However, I do not like the bit when he falls and hangs from the droid. Although his lines are funny, the scene does not look good. I hear in the IMAX cut he just falls and lands on the belt. That would have been better IMHO.

    (But we would lose "It's a nightmare! Oh, I want to go home!" Hmm.)

    Sue me, I think droid abuse is funny. :p


    EDIT: I agree with durbnpoisn though, that some stuff in AOTC that needed to get picked off the cutting room floor. Specifically, the Lost Twenty discussion. (The rest can stay there, as can pretty much everything that was cut from TPM.)



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  8. durbnpoisn

    durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database star 5 VIP

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    May 20, 2002
    I, too, like some good droid abuse from time to time, but that set of scenes belittled an otherwise tense action sequence.

    (The rest can stay there, as can pretty much everything that was cut from TPM.)


    The scene where QuiGon cuts the sith droid in half should have stayed in the movie. It was in the book. And, it tied the following scene to it. That's what clued QuiGon in that they were being tracked.

    In the final cut, you just see Anikin and QuiGon running toward the ship with no explanation as to why they were in a hurry.

    But, I agree that the rest was fine to be dropped.

    Oh, and QuiGon's saber looked really, really good in that scene. :D snicker :D
     
  9. Ryan_W

    Ryan_W VIP star 4 VIP

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    Aug 15, 2001
    Yeah I really liked that part also. Something about how he's walking, walking and at some point he realized the droid was there and just instantly spins around and hacks it down. I love that kinda Jedi stuff.

    Also I thought the waterfall scene was really nifty, and Sebulba's fire thrower (it's only a few seconds, I wish it had been left in, it was so cool :D )

    For example, when ObiWan first comes at Jango, they cut when his saber was obviously swinging in an arc, to another shot where the saber was in a different position. They cut out about 3 seconds of ObiWan blocking shots (which appears in the trailer btw). I wish they would have kept that in, its a little jarring without that follow through motion.

    I know exactly what you're talking about. He's going in for a swing and then it cuts and he's not at all. I wouldn't really call that a nitpick since your're either looking at him or Jango and it was a pretty obvious continuity error. But whatever.
     
  10. Lone_Padawan

    Lone_Padawan Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2001
    I laughed along with the rest of the audience at Jarjar and 3pos antics. I still feel all the saber sfx discussion is rather petty. So long as it's reconisable as lightsabre- who cares? Theres much more interesting effects to discuss and replicate.
    (I also found all the effects 100% realistic- but I have been told this is wrong ah well)
     
  11. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 3, 2002
    I wouldn't call the Clone War sequence "tense", at least not the arena part. It's just flat-out goofy and silly to me, which is WHY I love it. The only AOTC fights I would describe as tense are the ground war / Jedi-on-gunship bits and Obi/Ani vs. Dooku.

    So to me Threepio's silly antics only added to the atmosphere.

    But then I tend to prefer silliness in SW to when it tries to play straight. (shrugs)

    The Qui-Gon / probe droid thingy I could take or leave.
    I agree that it left a dodgy edit (why are they running in that one scene?), but because that edit didn't take me out of the movie, I say what the hell, shorten the movie. (Not that TPM STILL doesn't need to be shortened, mind you.)
    And frankly TPM had enough of "that kinda Jedi stuff" for me. I could have done without a lot of that stuff.

    Waterfall scene looked neat but added nothing. (Although I DO miss the shot toward the end when they're walking through this one nice pretty Naboo place. Pretty location.)
    I wish the waterfall scene was filmed as written. Jar Jar has a line in the script: "No! Too scary!" which I find very funny for some reason.

    Sebulba's flame thrower could have been left in, but I don't think it would have made a big difference either way.
    (My one beef with the TPM re-edit: In the pre-podrace sequence, there was this one shot where Watto cheered "Sebulba!"... I thought that was the funniest @#?!ing line for some reason. Why did it get cut?)




    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  12. durbnpoisn

    durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database star 5 VIP

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    May 20, 2002
    I don't wanna highjack your thread with the cutting room floor stuff... But, since you're doing it... :D

    I liked the waterfall scene too. But, it was utterly meaningless. I can see why it got cut. That wasn't in the book, by the way.

    But, that brings me to an interesting point about a set of effects that were truly awesome. All that underwater stuff with the huge mosters was just awesome. I think that's one of the more underated effects.

    Even if people complain about the sabers, that is an example of an effect that makes up for it.
     
  13. Ryan_W

    Ryan_W VIP star 4 VIP

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    Aug 15, 2001
    Yeah I agree.

    And I didn't say I thought the waterfall scene was meaningful and should have been left in, I said I thought it was nifty. ;)
     
  14. durbnpoisn

    durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database star 5 VIP

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    May 20, 2002
    btw: The saber in your icon looks terrible!


    *Falls over laughing* :D :D Ha ha ha ha!!!


    (I can't believe this thread went 5 pages without someone making that joke)
     
  15. Just_Joe

    Just_Joe Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Aside from the glows, the white cores ILM made were well done I think! Even if the dont flicker a whole lot, their shapes are consistant and stay true to the original shape of the dowels! :)

    Also........

    Effects wise in Episode 2, I applaud ILM for the Clone Troopers! I swear to God that when those guys were in battle, and viewed from a distance that they looked 100% real! You can sorta tell from the close-up shots that they are CG, but hey, I aint complaining! :)
     
  16. durbnpoisn

    durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database star 5 VIP

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    May 20, 2002
    Oh, yeah, I'd have to agree with that. I didn't know that they were ALL CGI until I read about weeks after seeing the movie.

    Their movement is nearly flawless. Even the dude flying the gunship (when he turns around to tell them they are out of missiles), looked dead on real.

    Now, a good example of a bad effect here is when they show the gunship go by with all the Jedi inside. That looked so fake. Like they were standing in a room that was totally still. (a green room, perhaps).

    That was one of the scenes where Kai's saber was suddenly a different color. (wasn't it?)
     
  17. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 3, 2002
    Clonetroopers = amazing. I love their design and execution and place in the story.

    I'm not sure WHY they went the CGI route -- I can't imagine that making the CGI clonetroopers was any easier than just building a suit and spending a day with an actor -- but I don't care. They look too awesome to me... I cannot find one frame in the whole movie that I can point to and say "Not perfect".

    :D :D :D :D :D

    Clonetroopers > Stormtroopers

    Stormtroopers > Rock Men in old Flash Gordon serial [face_laugh]

    Everyone < Birdmen in 1980 Flash Gordon "remake" that is far superior to all. (Flash! ah-ahhhhh! savior of the universe)




    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  18. EagleIFilms

    EagleIFilms Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2001
    ven if the dont flicker a whole lot, their shapes are consistant and stay true to the original shape of the dowels!

    Actually, watch again. Dooku's saber rotoscoping totally messes up a couple times, and isn't where the dowel (it's not really a dowel, but okay...) is at all.

    Not that I watch the movie frame-by-frame, but I did watch this clip frame-by-frame, and the roto'ing isn't as good as you're saying here. While it doesn't ruin the movie for sure, it doesn't deserve to be praised.


    ?Eaglet
     
  19. durbnpoisn

    durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database star 5 VIP

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    May 20, 2002
    That whole battle was a gigantic improvement over the CGI battle in TPM. In every respect.

    The key to making excellent special effects is that the audience shouldn't be able to tell when something is fake or real. It should ALL look real. They obviously failed miserably in TPM. But, man, they made up for it with this one.

    I never once felt sorry when a Gungan got fragged. But, I actually felt for the Clone troopers. It's a testament to how real they looked.
    Imagine going through 10 years - your entire existence leading up to this point... All that training. And, you get blown away in the first 3 seconds of your first battle. So sad.
     
  20. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 3, 2002
    durbnpoisn -- I would have felt sorry for a Gungan who got fragged if we SAW Gungans get fragged. We see dead Gungans sitting around on the battlefield toward the end, but it's subtle...

    As much as I dislike the "Corpsey the Dead Ewok" scene in ROTJ, it at least brought home the fact that the little fuzzy guys were dying.


    I agree with you that it was great how we could feel sorry for clonetroopers, and cheer them on, etc. ... I love the fact that I'm rooting for the same guys in AOTC that I grow to dislike from ANH on out.

    THAT is quality movie plotting.

    My crappy Episode II fan script's big battle was just Republic armies vs. Mandalorian clones. YAWN! (Although at least I took time to explain the Obi/Bail friendship and "General Kenobi", which needs to be touched on in Ep3, don't it.)



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  21. Metal-J

    Metal-J Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2003
    I'm a little late, the discussion has changed subject from when I were here last time!

    When I saw Ep2 I wasn't into filmmaking and sabers so I thought that the lightsabers were good.

    But... yesterday I watched it.. man I have totally changed my opinins from earlier...
    for example Yodas lightsaber looks almost exactly as My first lightsaber in Media Studio when I drew Two lines for it,
    one white core and one green glow.

    But the blue sabers are better that Dookus and Yodas actually. But man yodas & Dookus are really sadly bad.

    Have u played Jedi Outcast?
    Well there is the saber like a flat core always pointed to the camera.
    Like sprites u know.
    At least I think that, looks so in close-ups. THAT'S how the sabers look in Ep2

    And the glows. I WANT the red saber to be dark red!
    But I KNOW it doesn't look right.
    I just WISH could look right :)

    Well that's what I had to say I think.
     
  22. Just_Joe

    Just_Joe Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Amazing how the Clone Troopers seemed so powerful and easily turned the droid army into scrap(ecspecially that one scene where a buncha clone troopers are blasting away in a cloud of dust'n'smoke! Awesome!) but the stormtroopers cant shoot worth a damn!

    The empire must have started slacking off in their recruitment operations. :)
     
  23. durbnpoisn

    durbnpoisn TFN Staff Cast & Crew Database star 5 VIP

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    May 20, 2002
    Actually, the explanation is a lot more simple than that. And, this equation holds true for movie in general.

    Bad guys = bad aim.
    Good guys = outragously good aim to the point of being rediculous.

    So, when the Clonetroopers became Stormtroopers they lost their ability to shoot straight.

    But, I remember in ANH, Obiwan says "These blast points are much too accurate for Sandpeople. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." He must've been reffering to his earlier experience with them.
     
  24. Ryan_W

    Ryan_W VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2001
    btw: The saber in your icon looks terrible!

    I couldn't agree more. [face_laugh]

    I'm not sure WHY they went the CGI route -- I can't imagine that making the CGI clonetroopers was any easier than just building a suit and spending a day with an actor -- but I don't care. They look too awesome to me... I cannot find one frame in the whole movie that I can point to and say "Not perfect".

    The answer is fairly obvious as to why they went CG. Look at the neature of most of the shots. Tons of troopers and lots of camera moves. To take the time to bluescreen actors in suits, match move and composite them would have been a huge drag. Just motion capture acotrs, apply it to the troopers and bam. Render it out. Very smart, in my mind. Came outjust excellent. I hope we see lots more clone war in the beginning of Episode III. :D
     
  25. winter_chili

    winter_chili Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2002
    ^^^^

    yeah i hope so too
     
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