Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by DarthKnight, May 14, 2002.
Glad to hear it's good. Looking forward to it.
So far all the arguments against the movie have been quite silly. If you don't like the timeline, then you must realize the ot had the same continuity problems. If you don't like hayden, then how do you like mark hamill? If the cgi didn't impress you then how did the scenes inserted into the special edition find you?
This movie was all that the sw fans needed. If youre into the eu (i'm sorry in the first place that you are) and didnt' find the answers you wanted then just look forward to the next cheezy bit of eu that floats out from san rafel.
perhaps it could be said that this storyline would have made for a better episode I, time will tell.
but this movie as it stands is an awesome technical achivement and a fun story to watch unfold. i suspect much of the criticisim leveled here is from the well-spoiled among us.
btw, full-page paragraph posts are boring to read, try and keep it concise ok
Finally saw it. I really enjoyed it. When the credits rolled I felt good.. a satisfied inner glow, unlike when the credits rolled in TPM. That time I felt... cheated somehow, but couldn't put my finger on it.
People can argue about plot holes and little tiny impefections all they want, more power to them. I, on the other hand, applaud the directions Lucas has taken. There are just so many wonderful moments in this film. moments that gave me chills, moments that challenged me, made me expand my horizons, and of course smile and laugh.
There's a very good chance that it will make me appreciate TPM more than I did 3 years ago. This time around I actually felt things for the characters, especially Anakin. I feared Hayden would be the black hole of the movie, acting-wise, that he wouldn't have enough "screen presence" to fill the screen but he did great.
It's not that much of a technical achievement considering that there weren't really any special-effects in Attack of the Clones that weren't in The Phantom Menace, there were just more of them. More does not always equal better.
Mark Hamill is not the best actor around, that's for certain, but at least I never noticed his acting; Hayden Christensen, for the most part, delivers the most wooden, forced preformance I've seen in quite some time (a few times he does seem to actually get into the character, but not nearly enough). He pretty much just reads his lines and adds only the bare minimum of emmotion required to convey that he's feeling anger/sorrow/love.
"Mark Hamill is not the best actor around, that's for certain, but at least I never noticed his acting; Hayden Christensen, for the most part, delivers the most wooden, forced preformance I've seen in quite some time (a few times he does seem to actually get into the character, but not nearly enough). He pretty much just reads his lines and adds only the bare minimum of emmotion required to convey that he's feeling anger/sorrow/love."
False comparison. Anakin's character is supposed to be more disciplined than Luke. Luke was a farmboy. Anakin was going through years of training to be a jedi. Showing too much emotions as a Jedi is a sign of weakness. Anakin puts on the Jedi "mask" but his emotions still come through, and we see the consequences...
Before getting into more detail on this board about ATOC I will say this: In victorian literature, to show your emotions was bad taste, a sign of weakness to be avoided at all costs. Think about that when watching the PT. the OT is a different age, with a different set of people with different socio-economic backgrounds. They should not act the same.
There is a gaping whole in my heart, NO, no... my soul, that only great computer generated imagery, spotty acting and poor editing can fill, no, I cannot find solace in Harry Potter nor Lord of the Rings, I must find the only thing that shall fill my hole and cease my pain, what shall cease my pain? What?
Not Spider-Man, that film had spotty computer generated imagery, horrible acting and fair editing.. what shall make me whole?
Wait! I see in my dreams, happiness and satisfaction, what can be the cause of this? I must look deeper, NO, I can't, I don't want to be disappointed... I see a marquee, it reads... ATTACK OF THE CLONES!
AH, I am pleased, my soul is complete. I cannot ask for more, WAIT... what is that I see, but the TRAILER for MEN IN BLACK 2? My hole is returning, perhaps THAT will fill it.
HA HA HA! I swear thst diatribe above will sum up the insanely devoted (those that have posted for 6 months or less!) among this board in a few months.
I did like AOTC, but I get the feeling that my problem isn't with the film, it's with the fans that are so starved for SW that they will be willing to praise film (in DLP & THX, of course!) of George Lucas walking in front of a bluescreen, lifting up Artoo-Detoo's head and taking a dump into him!
Jeez, some of you people are SO predictable!
Movie audiences are SO much more sophisticated than they were 25 years ago, too bad the fans of 25 year old movies aren't, right?
(Don't worry, after I see AOTC for the SECOND time (I have to see it in DIGITAL!) tomorrow, I won't bother you since I won't be going by my INITIAL viewing anymore!)
(Break out the Chapstick so the GL Butt-Kissing Club of America can come to order!)
(Oops, was that post too long?)
Brief reminder: no AotC spoilers allowed in here until Monday. If anyone see's one, please PM a mod.
Waitaminute, how many 12 year old boys have an understanding of Victorian social edicate?
Are you saying that SW is so highbrow that it ISN'T for KIDS?!
I guess I need to go get a PHD before I see Ep.3!
"Waitaminute, how many 12 year old boys have an understanding of Victorian social edicate?"
I don't understand your question, please restate.
"Are you saying that SW is so highbrow that it ISN'T for KIDS?!"
No. At what point did I say it's not for kids?
"I guess I need to go get a PHD before I see Ep.3!"
Keep it up, George!
HA HA, I was jus' funnin' with you.
The comment about Victorian literature was enlightening, but not many 12 year olds will be using that as a way to understand the Anakin/Padme relationship in AOTC.
My comment about being too highbrow is for fans and LFL people that say that these are kids' movies, why waste time on such detail and history if it is "junk entertainment" for pre-teens?
I think it's funny how GL is hailed as a mythmaker, but he now wants to degenerate his life's work into being a KIDS' MOVIE?!
(He can't have it both ways.)
Just saw it...
First of all, I suggest not seeing it at a late showing especially after a busy day.
There is so much to see, attention span can fade quickly.
I wanted to like the movie so much, but the glaring "problems" mentioned earlier stuck out to me. Ebert was more honest than my local reviewer who rated it 3 1/2 but Spider-Man 2. The story was great, better than TPM.
However, Lucas needs to hire a director. Mainly the timing was glaringly awful, and the editing of the scenes. There is not enough time to explore or reflect and acts are cut short like for example, the constant
switching of scenes from Camino/Genosai and Obi-Wan to Naboo and Tatooine with Anakin and Amidala. The exposition was ok and the political background and the sinister relativeness to our real world politics was excellent and thought provoking. It's just that the actors and the scenes need to be directed better. In ANH, Lucas' ex-wife helped him trim the movie and keep the scenes on track with the average attention spans of the audience. Lucasfilm needs to spend some time on research on attention span and how much the eye and brain can register a plethora of CGI animations before it just gets too cluttering much like how early film evolved to frame rates and movie
screen sizes we have today.
That said, I'll go on to the stuff I liked. The animation of Yoda CENSORED was awesome and I intensely enjoyed it along with the
lightsaber fights. The massive fights need new animators. I had to get used to Doug Chiang's art style instead of Ralph McQuarries but I appreciate and enjoy Chiang's style a lot now and particularly enjoyed Amidala's transport at the beginning. Enjoyed the Coruscant blade-runner like scenes. I'm glad Jar-jar was cameoed. C3PO is much more real SW and sci-fi-robotlike comic relief.
Very impresed with Hayden Christensen. Especially his sinister relavation to Padme.
I like his lightsaber choreography the best of all the jedi. Hayden swings it the most convincingly. Like the "symbolic" extended "lightsaber-light" clashing as you'll soon see if you havent yet.
Christopher Lee was great, all the actors were great. Just need a new director. With all the resources at Lucasfilm's disposal (money, talent, public interest), they could could do more audience testing and tune up the storyboard and pacing with a relatively small investment. All the mistimed scenes, lost dramatic opportunities that could have brought out the best from the actors, bad pacing of the excellent artwork and effects frankly stem from mediocre directing imho.
Much like StarTrek:The Motion Picture, a good movie, half a great movie. It's still a Star Wars movie and better than Spider Man!
Mod Edit: Spoiler
Its not that AOTC isnt an enojyable film, it is, but when you consider the fact that its the halfway point for this trilogy, its a bit dissapointing. AOTC is pure bubblegum action, but Episode II really needed to get stuck in to a deeper story.
If Episode III gives us the deep plot that everyone has been waiting for, then that might redeem Lucas a little, but at present, this new trilogy consists of one dreadful film, and one entertaining one, if Lucas loses the momentum for the next movie, then AOTC will be the only real highlight of this trilogy. If Episode III sucks then Star Wars is finished.
Besides what happened to all of this talk of the new trilogy being "darker" than the last one. As I recall, Rick McCallum and Lucas made statements about how this new trilogy will really delve into the backstory of Anakins fall to the dark side, this trilogy could have been a real treat, but so far its been a bit thin on the ground on real story in terms of really developing the mythology.
The fanboys are going ape over the film but they dont really seem to look into the potential for Episode II. As far as they're concerned, Lucas said it, they believe it, that settles it.
Just look at all of the possibilities as what Episode II could have been, Episode II doesn't have to be everything, but it could have been SOMETHING more than what it is.
For instance, the scenes at the end where the clone-troopers make their assualts is like watching a real war film, so why not have actually made Episode II into a fully fledged war movie.
Or how about more focus on the Jedi and their fighting abilities. There's been a lot of martial arts stuff recently with Crouching Tiger... and The Matrix, Lucas could have given Ep II the chance to blow them all the way with more intricate lightsaber battles, except he went more for the tried and tested.
Or what about the romance side of things, romance may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the romance between Anakin and Padme could (should) have been more convincing, why not make it more of a romance film.
Or how about a psychological film dealing with aspects of the dark side etc. etc.
There's alot of directions which havent really been explored. Yes, Star Wars is a kids film, but there is no reason a kids film cant be creative and emotional too.
MAN OH MAN!!!!!!!!!! Well worth the wait! This movie kicks! I agree, Yoda is the true Jedi Master! I can't wait to see it again!
I thought this movie was AWESOME AWSOME AWESOME!!!! Love story did not hurt the film at all. Thought it fit in perfectly. Hayden wooden? Do not think so. Anaikin was by far my favorite character. Scared of him at one point. Wife was even going to cry at another. Hayden did a great job. Thought Hayden and Natalie definitley had chemistry. This has to be my fav SW right up there with ESB. But all in all I just LOVE the SW saga. From beginning to end. I even loved TPM So there! AOTC was just anohter thrilling chapter. Can not wait til EPIII! I have to say. I am 27. I saw the OT in theatres and have watch them over and over again. And I do no tthink that the OT is better then the PT. I think the PT fits in the whole saga perfectly. You can not compare both trilogies because different things are happening. Different actors. Once all six movies are out. And we can watch them in order we will see that the PT fits like a puzzle with the OT. And that is my opinion. You either like SW or you do not.
What did I think of the movie? It blew my mind. The visual look of the movie was better than anything that I've seen before.
Also- Yoda. Little green guy + Lightsaber + lots of energy= really good action
Clone Troopers: Better than storm troopers
Battle Scenes: Awesome. Chaotic.
Ok this movie Seriously kicks ass....If you are a Star Wars fan you should abosolutely adore this film... IMO it was the best SW to date..bye bye ESB...But even for the people that dont like it better than Empire, it should still be up there i 2nd,3rd place
The ones bashing it probably didnt know a clue about the story, and the ones saying it had bad acting...wow...you guys are just dumb.
AOTC is a very entertaining film, But it's NOT better than ESB. AOTC did not shock audiences like ESB did. The fact is we know whats happening next.
Obi-Wan has apparently taken the Han Solo place in the PT, but the fact is he is NOT Han Solo.
The chemestry between Hayden and Natalie was not always there; some of the romantic moments were very awkward. After I see it a few more times I'll have a more complete view. I still think it's worth seeing ten times and is probably the second or third best in my opinion.
"The ones bashing it probably didnt know a clue about the story, and the ones saying it had bad acting...wow...you guys are just dumb. "
Its funny how the people who enjoyed AOTC resort to using insults against the people who didnt enjoy it. It seems that your not allowed to say that AOTC was mediocre, or average, or good but not great etc.
If anyone does dare to state they didnt enjoy the film, then suddenly they're not a "proper" fan, or they dont "understand" the film.
Sorry, but insulting peoples intelligence is a desperate last resort. AOTC is good at being a bubblegum film, and I enjoyed it for the most part, but it is still lacking something.
I watched the film spoiler free, with generally little prior knowledge of the movie. The good bits wowed me, while the bad bits stuck out like a sore thumb, and I'm not gonna sit here pretending to myself that those bad bits didnt exist, or were a figment of my imagination. Sure, if you watch it 10 times in a row, you can become numb to some of the bad dialogue, or lack of true depth, but whats the use in that?
Well...Initially...I saw the film when I was dead tired... I had been up the previous night splicing together my final film for my Super 8 class...so I didn't soak it all in correctly when I finally got to see it...so I left the theater(Santa Monica 7 DLP theater) feeling very tired and confused...a little dissapointed, but eager to watch it again to see it fresh...and hopefully have a better time with it.
I agree that George, although a great storyteller, isn't the best director in the world...but I really think he is aware of this. He's just using these movies to improve his craft...like any other artist. I think he wants to get better at directing. Most would agree that his directing on AOTC IS an improvement over TPM ...he's learning from his mistakes. By the time Episode 3 comes out, he will refine and advance his skills even further...preparing him for his non-Star Wars projects, that will solely rely on his skills, rather than his franchise.
If anyone noticed that I came in disliking AOTC then suddenly gushing over it:
1. I had ONE hour of sleep.
2. I was sick. Sore throat, bathroom...everything.
3. I had to crap in line AND while watching.
4. My GF's mom was a word I can't say that day.
5. My GF got grounded and couldn't talk to me on the phone.
6. My friends double crossed me.
7. One of my friends used me to get tickets.
8. My mom forgot to register me for the ACT test on time.
Translation: I didn't see AOTC in optimal viewing conditions my first time.
I went back and was blown away.
God bless you George- you *finally* done it! ESB has been dethroned!
In my opinion at least.
Oh, I mean guys, MAN did I have to CRAP! The whole blasted movie! The whole time I was mashing my buttcheeks together...and was I about to get up and go to the restroom?
So, all in all, I was WRONG about AOTC- it owns me, my life, and my future, and Episode III better STAY AWAY because after that, no more movies...
My AOTC score- 26592837659287364972863456273645726345629836475982639457629387652987345928763948572639484562938456293876592873648592763985762938569265398457646538823516036103984610368347059187340968730601384670139846103468783486
(I'm not exaggerating)
I love threads where I have to scroll across to read.
I just got back from seeing it, and I have to say that its really great. Its right up there with the original trilogy. This is what Star Wars is all about.
I think they need to remake TPM now, it doesnt even compare with AOTC and the original trilogy.
it was aight.
worth seeing again.
special effects were better (read: "less tacky-looking and apparent")
i really didn't think christensen's acting was as bad as they said it was. but some of his lines were.
there's a thin line between reality and stupidity.
I went to see AOTC yesterday in a MUCH BETTER THEATER in Memphis (my first showing was in a smaller town theater), and I will admit that I did like the film much better this time.
On a bigger screen, you can see the little facial movements and such that makes convincing acting. Today I am going to see it in DLP (I was supposed to yesterday, put we got the wrong theater and am going back today!).
I will say that the dinner scene and the fireplace scene DIDN'T flow well at all, and after reading the script, there wasn't another scene, but it FELT like there should have been one in between those sequences.
The Threepio stuff at the end still didn't get any better. I think it bugged me even more because it reminded me of something from the old Marvel comics series or the DROIDS cartoon in the 80's.
The end battle benefits from a second showing and it makes me wonder if GL will give us a less "cartoony" TPM battle on a Definitive Edition DVD (I hope so, and I have broblems with the S.E.'s!). The ending of this film REALLY makes the TPM battle SUCK.
The love story still isn't a love story (it's still about Anakin's manipulation of Padme) and I will concede that Hayden's acting did hold up better on a bigger screen and he IS better than Jake Lloyd and Ewan in TPM. Natalie still isn't doing much better than she did in TPM (It's funny how a director/storyline affects performances, The Professional still has some of her best work and she was a kid!).
There are still f/x flaws (The Shaak scene is the worst!), but the f/x composition was BETTER on a better projector and it didn't look as "placed" in front of a bluescreen
I will say on repeat viewing, it has better use of the main characters than ROTJ did, the action and themes are still repeated from EMPIRE.
If I saw AOTC in DLP and wasn't as spoiled, I could say I might be screaming that it was on par with EMPIRE, but it isn't.
Since we are dealing with unemotinal Jedi, the PT WON'T have the CHARM of the originals and since there is a lot of theme repetition between the OT & PT, I can't say how original the stories are.
I feel that if GL would have let someone on the level of Irvin Kershner direct this film, we could scream from the mountain tops that the OT has been dethroned, but this didn't happen.
BTW, since GL is still "learning" his craft as a director, than why didn't he "practice" on some T.V. shows, miniseries or on cable. Something as important as SW, I would have!
If I could stand to watch TPM about 25 times or so since it's debut, I could stand to watch this film about 50 times. (Not in the theater, I'm not spending that much money! )