Just seen Matrix revolutions : what a shame !

Discussion in 'Scifi 3D Forum' started by EricM, Nov 10, 2003.

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  1. EricM Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    Ok, was that a joke ? It felt like a spoof of some Independance day II meets terminator 12 (which is not a compliment in my mouth).

    I knew (foresee ?) it may not live up to my expectations, but this ?

    Don't worry I won't give up the plot (anyway there isn't much to spoil, it's already rotten), but all in all, even the FX were far to make this an entertaining moment.

    Each time you could have a chance to enjoy a sequence, some character open its mouth for something like :
    - wow, you're the best pilot ever dude
    - Captain, we need to get out of this ****
    - I'm the king of the world
    - We need to love and help each other to make this world a better one for our kids and small portable devices
    - Captain, we need to get out of this damn **** (twice)
    - Wow, you're the best warrior ever dude
    ...


    Before I went, I told myself : ok, Reloaded was disappointing, but if this one is a must have, I'll get both DVD's in the end. Now I know there will only be one Matrix in my collection.


    Ok, I have to stop this, but I had to spit my anger !
  2. Jedi2016 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    Seeing as how you posted this in the 3D forums, I find it interesting that you didn't once mention the film's CG. Had you done that, this may have actually been on-topic, but as it is, it's an off-topic post and will therefore be locked or deleted.
  3. diabloblanco17 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 3
    Why is this here? Not only is it blatantly off-topic, but you've also managed to use a couple of cuss words without censoring them, which is against the Rules of Conduct. Were you coherent when you decided to post this?
  4. EricM Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    I was kind of really sick when I wrote this post, thus the whole point of "The-Best-CG-ever-will-not-make-a-good-movie" idea kind of disappeared in the end, I admit.

    Mea culpa

    However, the whole movie being only a huge CG ride, I felt not so OT to criticize it in this forum. Anyhow I needed to know if some other people involved in CG felt it was worthwhile to see it, be it only for its FX.

    As for the FX, I saw absolutely no "revolutions" unlike stated in the title. As stated before, it felt like another Terminator movie. Well done, but so "classical".

    Matrix 1 : you had bullet time
    Matrix 2 : you had Digital doubles
    Matrix 3 : flawless CG but nothing you've not already seen somewhere else (correct me if I'm wrong)

    As a matter of facts, Final Flight of the Osiris seemed so much better (remember the chase in the tunnels ? seemed the same, only longer in the movie)

    At last, sorry for the bad language, I should have quoted the lines of the movie perhaps ? Wasn't more brilliant though...

    Enough with this. I had to share my thoughts, and now its done. Sorry once again if I offended anybody on this forum. I'll behave myself next time. I promise.

    I just don't want to model anything related to the matrix anymore. And that's too bad because I loved it.
  5. The-Matt-Man Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2002
    star 4
    The CG looked very anime-ish and cartoony, and mostly faky in this one. I miss the first one, where we had an entire CG rooftop that looked mostly real, etc. The CG has seemed to do a reverse evolution in these movies...to me anyway. But for the look they were going for, it was good.

    To each his own, eh?

    -Matt
  6. djr33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2003
    star 4
    the only things that were special...

    spoilers:
    -neo's bullet time punch in the rain... that was awesome :D
    and the robotic suits were pretty cool.

    i guess the swarms of sentinals were something new too...



    overall though i actually thought that #2 had the best FX of all three. (3 was 2nd)

    #3had a better plot than 2 though. and neither matched 1...

    plot (best to worst):1,3,2
    FX:2,3,1
    CG (since this is the CG forum...):3,2,1
  7. Darksteps Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2001
    star 3
    I thought it was better than the other 2 movies put together... granted you knew what was going to happen in the end... but it felt like the last stand of the Alamo...

    I for one am glad that most of the movie took place OUTSIDE of the Matrix, inside was just getting really boring as they weren't doing anything new...

    I thought the CG was great, way better than Reloaded...

    wondering why no one has made a Mechwarrior movie yet...

    Darksteps...
  8. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 1999
    star 4
    I haven't seen it yet... not in a real hurry b/c of the reviews I'm reading... waiting for other people to respond to this thread and take it wherever it's gonna go... and it's EricM(Maradon). He's a big contributor so we'll give him a little leeway.
  9. InvidShocktrooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2003
    star 1
    I enjoyed the flic. Most people expect sequels to topple the previous films in their series which isn't always the case. I would pay to see it again as I thought the main battle looked awesome and with the sentinels swarming in the dock it reminded me of some sort of surreal aquarium. Who needed anymore than what they got? Did you expect something to just destroy you in your seats? I liked what I got and now I look forward to seeing how Peter Jackson interprets the ROTK book.
  10. ScaPaCamem Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2003
    star 4
    All I have to say is it was terribly dissapointing. Once again keanu reeves acting was terrible. To anyone who has seen the movie you know why its so dissappointing.

    spoilers: dont read if you havent seen the movie!
    it was so stupid when the two sides joined forces. Then how Neo died. But yes neos bullet time puch was cool. Blah! i hated it
  11. Crunchy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    I agree with Darkstep's ****
  12. PadawanNick Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Saw it. Pretty much in concordence 8-} with everyone else.

    Personally, I think that #1 was the movie they wanted to make. Fantastic, ground-breaking techniques and effects. Lots of CG that I didn't know was CG until seeing "making of" materials. Good pacing, great story, awesome action. Just a really really good time. Worth seeing lots-o-times.

    Wow, whata-ya-know. It's a hit.
    Mmmm. I wonder what we could do with an unlimited budget?
    How about an additional behind-the-scenes DVD ("revisited"), a cartoon special (nah, make that 9: Animatrix), a video game (Enter...) and two movies.
    IMO ... they just way over did it.

    Animatrix and the video game rocked IMO.
    I thought that both really added to the movie experience.

    I actually enjoyed Reloaded.
    Little frustrated by the pace, but, given that it was a "middle" movie, the story was acceptable (at the time) knowing there was more to come.
    The Highway was flat out amazing.
    While much of the CGI throughout the movie was pretty obvious, the way it was used in many cases was fresh and exciting.
    Man that highway sequence was cool. :D
    The frustrating thing was waiting to get past all the mumbo-jumbo speaches that seemed to be in place for the sole purpose of giving everyone something to think, predict and argue about during the months between movies. The extent that they dumped this on us really had me expecting some kind of revalation in the final movie.

    Instead, it seemed like the last movie was simply a mop to clean up the mess left over from the second. Like they had a check list of all the little "myteries" opened in #2, and just went top to bottom as fast as they could, checking of each item as they went.

    I don't think I'm revealing anything by saying that... yes, Neo does eventually wake up, but the whole movie really could have done without everything between the Matrix code falling up to this point.

    Very little matial arts. Disapointing.
    The epic battle in Zion was loaded with great eye candy.
    I also kinda liked the banter between the two hover-craft captains. Nice ammusing division.
    SPOILER:
    Pesonally, the "real-world" fight between Neo and Smith inside the Logos was the only point where I was really into the movie.

    So, my big frustrations...(loads of spoilers)

    - 16 year old kid, not allowed in the Army, but he knows how to operate something that makes an M1 tank look like Chevet. At least give me a 15-30 second shot showing people being jacked into the Zion mainframe for operational training uploads. That I could've accepted.
    - Everyone fights to the death to give the hover craft enough time and an opening to get inside and set off it's EMP. Um ... dudes, why didn't you just build a whole cave full of EMP's ???
    - Little girl program. Um ... what? why? Blech?
    - Merv: Should have done soooooo much more with this guy. And I miss the twins.


    In summary...I really enjoyed the franchise as a whole. The overall story line and concepts.
    The business execution of this latest barrage of products was pretty interesting as well. Could lead to lots of bigger and better projects for CG artists.
    The bottom line, though, is they just tried to do too much all at once. I simply couldn't ALL be good enough.
    It seems that instead of saying, "Wow, now we have totally unlimited resources. Just how good can we make this NOW!" and instead they said. "Alright, they're hooked. Now how many products can we get them to buy before they figure out that we're all out of idea."
    Just MHO.

    Have fun.
  13. The-Matt-Man Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2002
    star 4
    I dunno. I guess you would have had to have been into the first one. I think the second two had potential, but didn't achieve it.

    I wrote quite a bit on this in the Fan-films forum, so I'll save a little breath.

    All I can say is that I SO saw the end coming from a mile away. I said to myself, this is the one of the worst possible endings they can pick, so they'll probably use it to make fun of people like me.

    It's very anime-ish all around, so I imagine it was targeted primarily at an anime watching audience, as it was based from an anime, and was intended to carry that style. No problem. Preference based. This is like the Hulk with a built in audience that was expecting more than it got from the trailers.

    -Matt
  14. Antilles01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 3
    feel free to flame me (what do i care) but IMO you guys are freakin moronic. The movie was awesome. You all act as if its obviously a horrible movie. Like in every movie, it might have been better with some small changes like shortening Trinity's death scene dialog, but those things dont take away from the movie.

    Heres some advice, if you get into the habit of hating movies and refuse to let them entertain you, then you should probably stop watching them, you will never be satisfied. And in a way you dont deserve to be.

    :)
  15. The-Matt-Man Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2002
    star 4
    I saw user reviews that reminded me of the above.

    Ones like: "If you don't like this movie, your obviously not intelligent enough to appreciate the intellect."

    I beg to differ, half the diologue was meaningless mumbo-jumbo all wrapped in this whole mess of events meant to make you think something good was happening.

    But then, there's the aspect of people being allowed to get whatever they deem canon out of a movie, and that's fine.

    I enjoy movies for the record. I just didn't enjoy the past two matrix movies. I rather liked many of the movies that came out this year, even the Hulk, but Reloaded and Revolutions didn't do it for me. Sorry if you think I'm some sort of lower mind for thinking so.

    I also don't have a high anime appriciation either (and I found the matrix anime-ish from the beggining), so if that helps you, more power to you.

    Please don't try to make yourself out to be a person possessing some lost art form of movie goer-ism. That's silly.



    -Matt




    (And if you wanted a flame post: "STUPID HEAD, STUPID HEAD, STUPID HEAD) :D ... :) ... [face_plain] ...well I thought it was funny...
  16. EricM Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    Had it been a regular sci-fi movie, I might have had a similar attitude : ok, it ain't the best flick ever but it surely had a load of eye candy and was entertaining.

    Being a sequel of the Matrix, I feel entitled to ask more than a rental movie like Armageddon or ID4 (once again sorry if these are your cult films, I do not mean to hurt you). This really seemed like a regular Joel Silver movie (basic plot, shallow characters and big effects).

    ---Spoilers ---

    Even « effect-wise », it didn?t match my expectations. It was surely a nice ride, but each time you may enjoy a sequence it gets spoiled by something so predictable or so stupid it gets all the effects down. Plus there was almost nothing « new » in all the shots you could see :

    - The night club fight : you talk about déjà vu. It?s a playback of matrix 1 final assault.
    - The tunnel chase : Nice but from Return of the Jedi (death star attack) to final flight of the Osiris, you?ve seen it a hundred times.
    - The zion battle : the APU?s are nice as well but in the end it?s just shooting all over the place. Quite Aliens-like by the way.
    - The final fight : it felt like superman without the red panties. Granted the punch in the rain was stylish, but 5 secs isn?t enough to save the movie. The truck crash in Reloaded was way more impressive to that respect, and unlike the burly brawl sequence you do not see much closeup interaction between the two. Just regular wire-fu fight or long distance shockwaves?




    All in all, it looks like they didn?t know how to have a climax to end the trilogy and that they took the easy way by ripping everything they knew before. But they lost what made the Matrix different : originality.

    I think the Wachowsky brothers gave birth to something too big for them. After the relative disappointment of Reloaded, I tend to believe Silver got scared by the complicated storyline that was unfolding and that he took the lead to finish the trilogy the way he wanted to : easy and simple. Big explosions, short one-liners, happy ending.

    This third opus tastes so much different from the others (even the second which wasn?t my favourite).

    Maybe the fourth one will be any good ? Matrix Resurrection ? Who knows...
  17. djr33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2003
    star 4
    i have heard that there will be another trilogy... just rumors.

    and dont kill the messenger ;)
  18. The-Matt-Man Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2002
    star 4
    Watch it be prequels.

    -Matt
  19. djr33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2003
    star 4
    yeah and i gotta say that i think it will suck.

    if we already know what happens,
    and we already have seen movies with the same idea...

    then whats the point?

    unless it is filled with wondrous new FX, then i have no clue how it could be good...

    and a sequel has no real point... its over at the end of #3
  20. Antilles01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 3
    Im not saying that there is some God given divine meaning in the movie, probably the opposite, its only a story involving guns and robots and rocket launchers and stuff (BANG KAPOW BOOM!) But, the quote:

    I beg to differ, half the diologue was meaningless mumbo-jumbo all wrapped in this whole mess of events meant to make you think something good was happening.


    can be said about any movie ever made if you want. Revolutions' dialog was pertinent to the story at hand, how could it be meaningless? Was there another meaning you were hoping to derive from it?

    Anyway, I don't like anime that much either, and I don't possess the Lost Ark of Movie Goingism. And i liked pretty much every movie this year, i just didn't care for the editing in the Hulk.

    And I can understand someone wanting originality, but theres a point where if you are just writing things into scenes for the sake of originality, eventually it just won't end up serving the story. I mean, they could have had Neo and Smith fight with candy cane striped cat paws while singing Russian songs, hey, it would be original, but like i said, it wouldnt fit the story(thats a very exaggerated example, i know :( ).

    That being said, I think originality does help, and their attempt at it was to have them fight in the air instead of on the ground, which, like some of you noted, looked like a Superman movie. I understand that, but it's still neo and smith fighting and it fits into the story.

    I think the dock fight was impressive and 'original' enough. I cant remember the last time i saw a movie where 100 mecahnized machine gun walkers fought for mere survival against hundreds of thousands of swarming robots. Can you imagine how it would feel to be strapped into that machine, aiming up at the crumbling ceiling? Did it give you any feeling at all? Or were you all just thinking, "man this is so lame, this isnt original, it's big robots using machine guns, its just like movie A, B, or C," etc etc.

    In conclusion, I know this isnt going to change anyones mind, so its a bit dumb of me to write all this stuff, ergo, you're entitled to your opinion.
  21. The-Matt-Man Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2002
    star 4
    I just don't see why everyone is getting so heated up at one another over a movie. It's all in preference. Originality, beauty, meaning, it's all relative.

    I can derive a meaning from something whereas another person can take the same material, derive a different meaning, and we both have got something. the thing with most movies that have diologue that's irrelavent, but sounds relavent is that it's accidental, or they just don't care. It's almost like, with these movies, they intended to do something HUGE and spectacular, but all people like myself got was an effects show.

    The effects were great for the most part. The composites were...good. I didn't think the people in the walkers looked extremely real, but it was a cool until it started to drag, and then the scene went dead. So I'm not saying that it was a horrible movie, no doubt, end of story. What I'm saying is that, in my eyes, I thought it was very dragging in most parts, and the look to it wasn't exactly the look I would have picked for something like it.

    (the walkers reminded me of 'Alien' :D )

    I don't find the movie very original or clever, but no movie will ever be %100 original, mind you.

    It didn't do it for me, but that's just me. If it makes you feel any better, I wasn't as crazy about the first one as everyone else was.

    -Matt
  22. DarthZome Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 4
    Although I found Revolutions to be enjoyable, there's one thing that really bothers me about a lot of movies that have been coming out recently: "badass"-ness.

    I think it's ok for a movie to have a little bit of badass attitude, but many of these movies go way over the top.

    Remember that kid in grade school who tried to act so cool? He spent all his time showing off his attitude and designer clothes, trying to convince everyone at school how cool he was. However, in trying so hard to be cool, he was looked upon as a total dork.

    A lot of recent movies remind me of this kid. They try to have these tough, trash-talking characters fighting all the time, with lots and lots of bullet time and other flashy gimmicks. I don't find these movies to be cool, I find them idiotic.
  23. Antilles01 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 3
    yeah, I agree that it dragged in some places.
    And, in some places, it

    d r a g g e d.

  24. DorkmanScott Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Spoilers:

    I must be the only person in the world who thought the bullet time punch was stupid. Though Smith's face made me laugh hard, so it was entertaining.

    The problem is that the Brothers forgot how to tell a story. I already did this rant on fan films, but the main thing is that they shifted the story entirely away from where it began with the original. They made the sequels about Zion when they should have concentrated on the billions of human slaves trapped in the Matrix. The humanity of the films -- and our connection to them -- was completely disregarded in favor of a lot of CG and hamfisted philosophy.

    Name one non-program, non-Zionite character in the sequels. And I mean NAME one, not describe one. So no "The Hispanic lady who saw the Burly Brawl" or "That chick who ate the cake" or "the dude in the SUV that the Twin shot up." I mean a "blue pill" who was important enough that he, or she, was given a name.

    Can you think of one?

    The movie was fun. I was entertained for the two hours I sat in the theatre. It was cool. I got my money's worth.

    But it was NOT a GOOD movie. Especially if you think about what could have been.

    M. Scott
  25. Crook Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 1
    The punch was TERRIBLY bad CG, not for the quality of the rendering but of the poor attention to detail it showed.

    Raindrops are spherical. There's no getting around it. I know exactly what the CG artists did. When you see raindrops on film, they are all motion-blurred. So the 'public' percieves them as small cylinders of water. Why not render them as small cylinders of water then!?

    NO!!!! It would have been perfect if the transition to bullet time slowed down the motion blur to almost nothing as the drops became spherical.

    That ripped me right out of the film. It was a very poor choice, and despite the CG artists being far better than me at the actual work, they lost respect on the philosophy side in that 3 seconds.

    That, after the missing axles on the truck in reloaded (what a stupid mistake) shows the sloppy CG work done in these 2 sequels.
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