ST Kelly Marie Tran (Rose Tico) in Episode IX

Well, she didn't push him more than she crashed into him.

"Since I saved you, it was all worth it.", she says as the only hope for the galaxy gets one step closer to obliteration.

WISDOM, YOU GUYS.

 

He probably will in IX, VII - VIII was his growth period.

 

I wish they just had Maz do that honestly since she's at least familiar with corruption, and she's the one who challenged him back in TFA when he wanted to run, but then believes in him enough to give him the lightsaber and then calls him a "warrior."

Now THAT would've been more interesting to watch and explore their dynamic continued in TLJ. And at least Finn was allowed to talk back to Maz when she called him a wimp because she didn't have the right to label him like that given his backstory. That would've at least felt like a Luke and Yoda dynamic with an older, wiser mentor. And therefore I would've been at least more emotionally convinced in their dynamic.

It really just looks like Finn does nothing but take it from Rose over and over again, and it's not like he gets a 'thank you' for saving her ass. She gets a kiss and a nap

 

It also would have given Lupita Nyong'o something to actually do in this trilogy.

 

In all seriousness she was the vehicle by which Finn saw the corruption under the glamour of Canto Bight. Finn is (like Rey) a Naive Newcomer so in that sense she serves as a guide.

Her line is 'We'll win by defending what we love' and an argument could be made that Finn hurling himself into the cannon wouldn't have saved the Resistance. It shows his commitment to a greater cause, but it was also an act of desperation that wouldn't have amounted to much since NO ONE came to save the Resistance. Depending on what JJ does, Rose's line and action could serve as a guidepost to Finn....don't focus on hurting the First Order, focus on SAVING the people they threaten...that could, in turn, lead to more people joining your cause and living long enough to stop the first order.

As they said in B5 legend of the rangers: "We live for the one, we die for the one...but we don't die stupidly."

 

Finn saw the only way to save the people they threaten by killing himself to AT LEAST greatly hinder the First Order's effort to bust down the door and slaughter everyone. Which would've bought them much more time, and at least not have to worry about the First Order barging in at any moment. It's not like he knew Rey and Luke were gonna show up and buy them time. If he did then I'd be fine with them going "Okay, the Falcon's on the way for extraction. All we have to do is hold them off till they get here." But he didn't know that. In his mind, it was the only option. Finn doesn't get enough credit for the fact that he was willing to sacrifice himself to begin with, even at the risk of it not completely destroying the cannon. Rose doesn't even ever acknowledge him as a hero. She criticizes him, like she does the entire movie, and Finn pretty much gets nothing once again like in TFA.

Which is why I really can't imagine what she's gonna even do in Episode IX and what role she'll have if she's not chained to Finn the entire time. That's the problem with creating a character just to help support another. Lando wasn't made this way and that's why his arc makes sense after ESB.

Holdo was made to at least cause conflict with one of the protags, but she serves her purpose and dies. Same with Luke. DJ as well and we're no longer seeing after he ditches them on the Supremacy. They serve their purposes, create conflicts, and leave. That's the issue with Rose.

 

I like how the film poses Holdo's sacrifice as something the audience should care about despite her being nothing but an annoying red herring but Finn's attempt at sacrificing himself FOR A CAUSE HE HAS COME TO LOVE should be thought of as reckless despite the fact that he has the most reason to have done something like this.

 

Finn isn't directly violent with the First Order right after waking up from an injury from protecting someone he cares about dearly: Wow what a selfish traitor.

Finn is willing to be violent with the First Order at the cost of his own life, simply for a chance to save others: Wow what a reckless irresponsible sadist.

Honestly? Just like people said that Finn needs to be separated from Rey after TFA (and look what we got), I'm gonna go ahead and start preaching that Rose needs to be separated from Finn in Episode IX. Let her spend some time with Poe and Connix or something.

 

Rose dooms the Resistance in sudden fit of flooring stupidity: "What a saint."

 

This isn't an either or situation and I don't believe it was meant as such. I would argue Finn's attempted sacrifice was framed as Nobel in intent, just not what was needed in that moment. It's worth noting that when Luke says "The war is not over" the camera specifically focuses on Finn, implying his arc is not done and his experiences will not be in vain. What JJ does with that I can not say, but he has a lot of options available to him.

 

Right, and I like how you said that. But even then, it's the execution that was faulty. Explore his hatred for the First Order and have characters support him and understand him. If Rose is supposed to support him, then have her support him. All Finn does is support her. All Rose does it act like he doesn't know anything.

Don't treat him like he's at fault. Instead of having Poe and Rose criticize him, Rose could've said something like, "Finn please! This isn't the way! You don't have to do this! There's still time!" Something more like that in a way that recognizes his pain. Same with Poe since they're closer. They reason with him instead of chastise him. Something like that in a way that the audience understands where he's coming from, and make Rose's supportive role more evident and convincing.

Finn and Rey were able to support each other in TFA, as they both save each other. Rey inspired Finn to face his fears, and Finn inspired Rey to do the same thing with the Force. But you at least knew that they both had real arcs to go through in the future. And people were speculating what Finn could do. It's not the same with Rose honestly.

 

But in the end, Rose was right.

If Finn did what he wanted, he'd be dead right now.

Rose intervened and now she, Finn and the Resistance are still alive.


Rose has her hang ups, but she was raised with a family. Finn has been taught to be nothing but a soldier type since he was taken (as baby at the earliest, as a toddler at the latest).

That's why she was created to support him and help him on his journey.

 

Okay, again, I'm not disagree with you guys when you say what the overall point was. But the problem is that the lesson and execution is both inconsistent and faulty when aimed at Finn. Rose gets to big decisions based on emotion and she's never chastised for it. Like on Canto Bight when she frees horses, destroys a bunch of stuff and leaves slave children. And then on Crait when she pulls a stunt that could've killed her and Finn twice (first the crash, then the walkers behind them). But for some reason she's cut so much slack on both of those occasions because of "what she's been through." But for some reason the same doesn't apply for Finn in the same sympathetic way.

Finn should've been the one getting mad at the Canto Bight business, with Rose easing him to keep a level head and focus. Not "snap him back in line." Or alternatively, have him have a serious moment and ask her why he should leave this place, and have her reason with him and understand where he's coming from. But again she just lectures him and he has to support her and her plan to give HER a sense of closure.

Same thing with Crait, have a short moment when he's heading towards the speeder, let her have a short emotional conversation with him about how she understands why he hates the First Order, but there's another way to do this and still save people. Hell, if they wanna talk about how she chastised Finn for being so "hung up" on Rey? Have her mention Rey to him! Something to show a little bit of understanding between them too. Like, "I hated how he was so focused on Rey in the beginning ,but now at the end I understand why he cared so much."
Stuff like that would've added so much substance to the story and to her character.

I get that the plan was there, but the execution was bad.

 

Actually Rose does say something like that to Finn in the film.
And his response is to take off his radio.

Plus Finn did know that Rey and the Falcon were on Crait because he just saw them shoot and distract the tie fighters out of the sky.

If Finn listened to Poe and retreated, then they would just wait for the Falcon to come back around. And probably do like they ultimately did, follow the crystal critters through the back way.

Only difference would be, Rose wouldn't be in a coma.





Back to your earlier statement. Finn DOESN'T know everything in the larger galaxy, beyond the FO. That's why Rose is there to guide him.

If you look at Finn in TFA, he was the same way, only you had an older guy, Han, guiding him. I don't see any audience members chastising Han for giving Finn such a hard time.

(Hell, Han gave Finn the worst need-some-sense-talk , in the entire franchise: "SANITATION!! PEOPLE ARE COUNTING ON US! THE GALAXY IS COUNTING ON US!! THATS NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS!!!")

A lot of people's problem with Rose's placement, seems to be that she can't be the one to guide Finn because she's not an older character like Han, Luke, Leia or Maz.

You said it yourself, you wouldn't have a problem if it were Maz. And some fans said they would preferred that Poe went with Finn to guide him.



As for Rose being chastised. Her knocking Finn out of the way was smart and ultimately successful. However, we can blame Rose for the worst decision and most easily avoidable one in the entire film.

Parking on the restricted beach in Canto Bight. You can't blame Finn, because there's no way he would know, being this is his second week away from the FO. Rose, who's already familiar with Canto Bight, and who by all accounts was raised normally in the civilian world, definitely should have known this.

 

Actually that honor goes to Poe, for failing OPSEC. There was no need for Finn and Rose to know about the shuttles, especially since they were boarding a ship run by Force users that can rip information from their minds. Poe giving away that bit of information cost the life of every single person a shuttle that the FO shot down, and the lives of everyone on the ground at Crait who died.

 

Good thing then that the movie does no such thing...

The whole thing is about the individual situations the people are in and learning from others. Holdo was going to die anyway, she was the last person on a ship the FO was hunting down, she was "supposed" to die. And just like Poe had to learn that sometimes being a leader requires the knowledge when not to fight or "be the hero", Holdo learned that there are times where that sacrifice is necessary.

Nowhere did the movie state the Holdo's sacrifice was noble and that Finn's attempt was reckless or stupid. It did however make clear that there are times where you have no choice and there are times where you are throwing yourself away for no good reason. Holdo sacrificed herself at a point where she was dying anyway, and her choice was the only thing that could have allowed the others to get away. Finn, on the other hand, thought his act would give the others a chance when that wasn't the case at all. Granted, the movie could have made it 100% clear that it wouldn't have worked, instead of doing it just to 95%, but that is rather irrelevant when talking about the general idea.

 

Plus she could have easily gotten them both killed with that little stunt anyway (also how did she catch up with him so fast, that makes no sense logically either). And wow is she lucky the FO were kind enough to hold their fire so that she and Finn could hold a conversation out in the open with no cover, and then he could drag her the long distance back to the base. How nice of the evil space fascists.

Also great job Rose, you save him, just so that you can both go back to the base where you have no way of escaping, that's about to be overrun and you all get killed anyway because you sabotage that last chance that they had to maybe prevent it. Wow are you lucky that Rey ex Machina showed up when she did, otherwise you'd have "saved" him for nothing.

 

They already knew Rey and the Falcon were on Crait.

 

That's still taking a HUGE risk. One ship vs all of the military might of the FO, sure Finn was in the wrong there (not really). Also again Rose could have easily killed them both with that stunt and the movie contrived a scenario where the FO doesn't shoot at them inexplicably so that they can talk and then he can carry back a long distance, for no reason.

Also the movie doesn't make it clear AT ALL that it wouldn't have worked. And it would have been pathetically easy to do so, Rian just didn't bother to. Most of the people that I talked to after the film didn't think that "it wouldn't have worked anyway." They felt like it would have, but Rose screwed it all up for selfish reasons.

And yet again we have another film where Finn just bumbles around being the butt of jokes, accomplishes nothing of note, only here it's worse because he's treated like a clueless child and lectured by this annoying new person who doesn't even have a good point.

So forgive me if I'm not confident that they'll FINALLY do something good with him in the final film after failing for two films.

 

@Thrawn082 The movie made a point of showing Finn's skimmer's lasers melt off.

All he was doing, at that point, was trying to ram the cannon, while he was still in its pre-firing shockwave. (His cannons were already melted off, his skimmer was experiencing drag from the shockwave, he was in a faulty rusted old skimmer to begin with)

If you apply real world physics (which I know is moot in Star Wars), Finn was doomed.

Hell, Rose is the mechanic and was the one to assess the skimmers as best she could in the first place.

If she knew ramming the FO cannon with the rickety skimmer was pointless, I'd choose to believe her.

 

Exactly. When I saw Finn's puny skimmer wilting away as it approached the cannon I didn't think that Finn's efforts were going to make a difference and Rose could see that too. Made since to me that she would save him.

 

Regardless I'm getting sick and tired of Finn's entire "heroic journey" centering around how many lessons he has to learn with little to no pay off whatsoever. How many times has Finn got to learn a lesson and then use that lesson to save people? How many times has it been properly highlighted as a heroic moment that the audience should appreciate (that doesn't end in him getting interrupted or cut off).
And again, even if it wouldn't have worked, they don't have to constantly make Finn look like an irrational idiot at every turn, or then call him a coward when he's making a different type of plan. It's this constant back and forth from one extreme to the other, like the story doesn't even know what it wants Finn to be. It just wants him to have as many flaws as possible so that it can masquerade itself as character development without actually developing him.

This is why I have such an issue with how Rose was written. She isn't there to support him. She does practically no such thing but hinders his development at every turn and is always there to tell him how wrong he is about everything. And again, Finn never gets a huge payoff in the end anyway, so what's the point? If he was really doomed then Rose mightaswell have just let him try and kill himself with the hopes of damaging it instead of almost killing both of them twice.

Sure he had to bail her out then, but again, it's not like he gets a bunch of pats on the back afterwards anyway. And now in IX I can't imagine what her role would be if she's not there to "support" Finn the whole time. She's just not a likable character for me, nor do I find her compelling. She's just annoyingly written.

 

I'd be perfectly fine with Rose spending Episode 9 entirely in a coma. I'm not even saying that because I hate the character. I honestly think the best thing for both Finn and Rose is for her last words to actually hang over Finn the entire film. Have her saving him actually mean something other than a nap. The two of them skipping along, happy and having adventures in 9 just... it's too much. She's an unnecessary character that served her purpose. She isn't developed enough to stand on her own, and a "Finn and Rose adventure" subplot is the last thing the final film in the skywalker saga needs to focus on considering we already have at least theee other plot threads to follow. Kylo, Rey, and Poe will all likely be their own major threads, a fourth isn't needed. Finn will easily do double duty, working with both Rey and Poe in 9. While Rose could certainly tag along, I really feel strongly that her actually in danger due to his decision is the best way to move that forward.

Also we won't have to deal with anymore terrible romance between the two.

 

I honestly think most of the hate for Rose is racism and sexism on at least a subconscious level. She's an Asian woman who's not conventionally attractive.

Most of her "annoying" traits are simply her opinions and ideals. Even though it's a series about fighting an oppressive, fascist government, Star Wars never actually discussed oppression until Rose showed up. I think seeing a woman of color with strong morals and political opinions makes a lot of people uncomfortable. She's the Lisa Simpson of Star Wars.

 

Perhaps some of the reaction involved racism/sexism, but a good amount of it comes from the fact that she was a character invented for a subplot most feel was irrelevant, boring, and unnecessary.

I liked Rose's moxie in the beginning, sans tasering Finn, but the decline begins on Canto Bight with very simplistic (transparent) moralism - not KMT's fault, and ends with a poorly-staged (illogical) sacrifice for Finn.

The audience where I saw TLJ awkwardly murmured after Rose delivered her "saving the people we love" line. Then Rose passed out on melodramatic cue and it went from bad to worse - again, not KMT's fault.