Kevin Smith on AOTC

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Darth_OlsenTwins, Jul 16, 2002.

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  1. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    It's more than a day, I think. Leo sees her, saves her from a suicide attempt, has dinner with her and parties with her the following night, then the night after that is the iceberg.

    "Titanic" is not even a love story per se. He saves her, they become friends, she sleeps with him to get revenge for her fiance's abuse, and then he drowns trying to save her a second time. That's why it's believable. The story doesn't waste time trying to convince us that the two characters "truly, deeply" love each other, it just throws them into an emotionally-charged situation and lets them react.
  2. Arif Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2002
    I don't see why everyone wants to have a deep sympathy for Padme. Anyone who marries someone capable of becoming Darth Vader made a mistake.
  3. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The question is going to be what kind of mistake Padme makes. Does she make the mistake of believing Anakin is better than he is? I can sympathize with that mistake.

    Or does she make the mistake of deliberately excusing Anakin's crime, or of deliberately putting herself in the path of danger, knowing what Anakin is really like?

    That's what I meant, by the way, by Padme as both an accomplice, and a self-induced victim. She forgives Anakin, and then puts herself, knowingly, in harm's way.

    I'd prefer not to have her presented that way.
  4. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Maybe that was all that was needed. Just how they react to certain situations.
  5. Miiike Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2001
    star 2
    A few random thoughts from this thread.


    1. As I say every time someone feels the need to open a new thread for every bad review, this should not have its own thread.

    2. Smith's review is well written and pretty much dead on with my feelings about AOTC specifically and, all 5 generally. I have enjoyed all of them and no amount of criticism will ever change that. I only home that continues one more time.

    3. Not sure why I will bother to point this out, but I will. Many great love stories start with the characters simply being in love. You believe it because you are told. The reason for this technique is to allow the author to focus on what happened to the characters or to their relationship. For examples of this, check Shakespeare (particular Romeo and Juliet) or Chaucer (Troilus and Criseyde). By no means am I saying that AOTC is anywhere near those stories, but rather pointing out not all love stories have to be believable. Hell, in real life, I have had a hard time believing some of my and my friends love stories.

    4. I like Smith's movies.

    5. Does anyone else think that many of the fans who hold ESB out as the god almighty film but bash ROTJ formed that opinion about half way through their first viewing of Clerks?
  6. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Anyway. I belived what I saw. It is SW movie. Can not bore pepople with two hours of Anakin trying to win over Padme'.
  7. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Does she make the mistake of believing Anakin is better than he is?

    She's acting on maternal instinct, thinking she can repair the "damaged goods." Honestly, her motivations are not all that obscure.
  8. Jedi-Hosinsul Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 1
    I think that most of KS's views are right regarding AOTC. In regards to Padme falling in love with Anakin, it is something I see all the time. One of my family members and some of my friends (both girls and guys)have fallen in love quite quickly and married within a short amount of time. This is what Padme did and it can and does happen. In regards to how she feels when Anakin tells her of the slaughter. From her limited expression I felt that she did not believe that she was falling in love with a psychopath but instead simply saw the man she is in love with have a breakdown and she wanted to comfort him.
  9. Shara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2000
    star 4
    I'm just going to be short on my whole thing.

    First, I thought Kevin Smith did an excellent job and did hit it on the head. I think he's right, and it's refreshing to see people like myself realizing it.

    Second, I liked the article not just because I like Kevin's work, but I do liek his work. Despite his crassness, if you really see his films for what they are, below the surface, you'd understand them better. But he makes some parts to entertain, some to tell a good story.

    After seeing Episode II, I explained away the only thing about the movie that rubbed me wrong, namely the love scenes. These are two people who are adults, or close to it, and who have never been in love or had these feelings when they were supposed to, as teenagers. Of course they're going to act like goofs, their actions overdone, and the words cheesy. Puhlease, remember how you were at 14 or 16. Because of this realization, I absolutely love the movie!

    Thanks Kevin, you did a great job!
  10. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    I'd just like to quip in that I liked KS' review.
    He had it lined up with me on most parts except on what he got out of Padme.
    In that part, I agreee with Jabbadabbado more. She's can't believe what she's hearing. She's standing there stunned, and a little afraid. She can't grasp the full impact of what's actually going on here. She doesn't understand about the darkside and what it can do (for that matter I don't think Anakin does either. That, or he just quit caring somewhere down the line.).
    What I got from her is equivilent to someone getting news that a loved one has been murdered. It hits you like a ton of bricks at the same time it hits you as a feather. Kind of interesting since, in a sense, Anakin Skywalker started to 'die' that night with his mom and it started with his innocence, the part that he had while around his mom. She died, his innocence died. When the Jedi start to die, another part of him will die (and he'll even help kill it). When (granted, if) Padme dies, the last of Anakin Skywalker will die. Or so people think. But just like there's a bit of Anakin left in Luke, there's a bit of Anakin left in Vader.
    Is this what Lucas had in mind? Probably not. But it's neat to think about :)
    But boy, did I veer off course.
    Back to Padme. She can't see it as 'I'm marrying an axe murderer' because she can't comprehend Anakin as an axe murderer. He just knows he got revenge on things that kiled his mom. She wasn't there. She doesn't know.
    Bah. I'm not getting my point across well at all.
    But I guess the big difference between me and Jabbadabbado is I liked the scene and the acting. If we can get something out of Padme without her saying or eggagerating a thing (covering her mouth and gasping with little tears in her eyes. Some would say that's better acting, I'd say that's melodrama), I'd say she did alright. Portman isn't bad, so much as subtle. The problem with this is Padme's not always a subtle character. But Portman does get the energy kicked in in quite a few parts in AotC. Which is good. She seems like a pretty decent high energy actress.
  11. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Actually, I like the scene and, for the most part, the acting in that scene too. It's the only interesting love scene in the movie, and what makes it interesting is the ambiguity of Padme's reaction and the dramatic import of her reaching out to Anakin in that crucial moment, and that is what we're really talking about anyway.
  12. G-FETT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Seems as though Kev knows what his on about ;) I agree with everything he says.

    I doubt it will make much differance though. The vast majority will continue to like/love Attack of the Clones. A small (but vocal and important minority) will continue to dislike/hate Clones. The rest will say it's better than Menace, but still doesn't quite reach the OT.

    I think ALL these opinions are set in stone now, and Kevin Smith won't change anybodys mind. Which is how it should be. If Clones didn't turn you on, then it would be absurd for the views of others to make a differance. Which is why I find many of the Gusher/Basher wars around here, frankly rather bizarre and pointless! :)
  13. -TheForce- Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2001
    star 1
    To me the only problem with the love story is that there isn't enough of it. Many of the deleted love scenes should have never been deleted and I hope at least some of them can be reinserted into the movie for the DVD release.
  14. Darth_Terrell Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 2
    I personally don't think Kevin Smith gives a damn about people who dislike and are clueless about the film. Just giving his take one the matter.

    "On another note, I also want to try and find out why the film turned out as horribly as it did."

    It didn't. It was a great film. Maybe you should skip out on Episode III. I can already tell you won't like it.
  15. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    Darth_OlsenTwins, love your icon! :)

    Anyway, Kevin Smith's review just confirmed what I already suspected. Real Star Wars fans love AOTC.
    Case closed.
  16. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Duckman, the immatureity at which you classify fans as real or not is only matched by your blinded faith for the films, however mediocre tey might get.

    True, I will never turn my back against Star Wars as I love the bloody thing. This will not, however, stop me from trying to find out why this latest installment is such an abject failure.

  17. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Don't let it bother you AL. I've been a "fake fan" for three years now, and I'm loving it. As a fake fan, I never have to praise the Gungan battle, Anakin's whining, or Greedo shooting first.
  18. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Maybe in your eyes ALit is a failure but some of us, like me, loved it. To each their own I guess.
  19. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The main thing you need to know about AL is that he's totally sincere about the fact that he gave AOTC a chance and really wanted it to be a great film. He criticized me a few times before the release for my comments about the dialogue from the online script. Although I disagreed with him about the idea that it's impossible to judge a movie's dialogue outside the context of the film as a whole (movie producer's have to make that judgment call all the time), I understood where he was coming from and why it was important for him to really judge the movie on its merits only as a completed Star Wars film.

    The few bashers I know who dislike AOTC are anguished about it, absolutely hate the fact that AOTC didn't redeem the saga for them.
  20. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    I am not here to change people's opinions on the film, nor am I here to judge them for enjoying it. The same courtesy I offer is seldom extended to me or other such "bashers" by the blinded fans hiding under the umbrella of "true fan gushers".

    Let's keep it civil guys; we are all part of the same hypocrisy.

    (You know it's a good day on the boards when someone quotes Michael Corleone.)
  21. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    The fans failed AOTC. AOTC didn't fail the fans.


    By fans I mean you guys, not some sort of cooling device. Although the cooling device did fail when I watched AOTC. I was hot and sweaty but I loved it anyway - the sign of a good film, IMO.
  22. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    How did the fans fail AOTC?
  23. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    I have absolutely no idea what Duckman is talking about.
  24. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    AL
    I try to extend the same courtesy as you are. Sometimes it does not come out the way I want it. I always respects people's opinons that are opposite of mine. No one can ever change another's mind on things. People feel how they feel. Just do not like it when people try to bring me down for loving something. Not that you are doing this AL but debates I have had at work here or at home. I feel little.
  25. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    AL, I have yet to hear you say anything positive about AOTC. Maybe that why some people think you're biased? Please prove me wrong.
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