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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

KOTOR II: The Incompletion Controversy

Discussion in 'Archive: Games' started by Errant_Venture, Mar 6, 2005.

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  1. TeddyV

    TeddyV Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2005
    The link is dead?

    is there another mirror for this...?
    I need to get that one fix that makes Atton faces me when I talk to him on the ebon hawk..
     
  2. CaptCM54

    CaptCM54 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2002
    I heard of HK-47 saying his definition of love was "making a shot to the knees of a target 120 km away." How can I hear that and where or when?
    It must sound so funny and will be hilarious, I think, if I heard it from him.
     
  3. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    It's truly annoying that in several conversations between the Exile and HK that HK mentions the possibility of a droid factory churning out the HK clones...and then that eventual visit is cut out of the game. Couldn't they have then deleted the conversation lines that made referrence to it as well so THAT gaping hole in the game wouldn't be too obvious? Truly shoddy. And just who was making the HK clones? G0T0?

    Then you're given the ability to train several members of your crew as Jedi...and when the endgame comes, you don't get to use any of them with the exception of Mira. Just who survived the crash of the Ebon Hawk on Malacore? Did Bao-Dur die? His message to the remote telling him what to do pretty much hinted at this. I understand that the cut material had HK rescuing the remote from G0T0 (which woulda been awesome to see) and Atton dying to save the female Exile. I kinda liked Atton so that wouldn't have been cool. But given that that death would seem more dramatic and necessary for a female Exile and not so with a male version, I understand why it was cut out of the game.

    Still so much cut material (not to mention the endless bugs) stick out like a sore thumb and I truly don't understand why somebody at LucasArts would agree to rush out an unfinished product just to make some last quarter figures. Was Obsidian hopelessly behind schedule and this forced LucasArts hand at releasing the game? I mean, doesn't quality control or even quality over quantity mean anything nowadays?? Was 2004 such a bad year for LucasArts that they desperately needed an incomplete KOTOR 2 to close out their fiscal year? I mean, 2005 and Return of the Sith were just right around the corner. They could've ridden the wave of Sith mania by releasing a complete (if not substantially better) KOTOR 2 last year, make a tidy profit and deliver at the same time a quality product. I truly hope that if a KOTOR 3 is to be made, the parties involved will remember the mistakes made and focus more into delivering a worthy sequel to the 2003 game of the year instead of focusing into the $$$ that will be made just by slapping KOTOR and/or Star Wars into a piece of buggy, unplayable, incomplete game code. :mad:
     
  4. Winged_Jedi

    Winged_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
  5. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    The game wasn't unplayable, nor was it anymore buggy than the first one.

    Some missing parts really stick out, they should have cut the material properly, or better, not cut so much of it.
    Most of the game is complete, only the HK-factory plot and the ending sequence need a bit (*understatement*) polishing. I'd say the game would have turned out without all these holes, if they had kept the original release date.
     
  6. portman_is_so_fine

    portman_is_so_fine Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    I agree, the game was a playable game that I thoroughly enjoyed. Nothing about the game really bothered me with the exception of the ending. And as was stated, it wasn't anymore buggy than the first KotOR.
     
  7. Lord-Draco

    Lord-Draco Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    In my mind KOTOR 2 was buggier than KOTOR. Also KOTOR 2 had more technical problems then KOTOR. I mean 30 second loading times!?!?!? Even a large game like Morrowind didn't have that.
     
  8. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Well, I haven't experienced more bugs, nor did I experience any technical problems that weren't in the first game. In fact, I only experienced one larger problem, but that one only came up after I had played both games multiple times.

    The areas were larger in the second game, so you had to load less often than in the first one.
    I never understood the problems with the loading times. Neither KOTOR nor KOTOR II took longer than five seconds to load a save game or the next area on my computer. And it's not like I had a high end machine at that point of time...
     
  9. Darth_FattyAss

    Darth_FattyAss Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2002
    I"m sure this has been discussed here...infact I think I mentioned it a while back, but currently there is a group of modders who are finishing the game. The code for the incomplete aspects of the story were left inthe game so they are pieceing all together. Obsidian has pretty much given them tacit approval because you can link to their site from Obsidian's forum. It looks as if they have a completed version that is being beta tested by long-time forum members of both the Obsidian and Team-Gizka websites. They have not put a time frame on when the mod wil be released, but it looks promising. The website for those of you who are unfamiliar is http://www.team-gizka.org/forums.html...Enjoy
     
  10. Lord-Draco

    Lord-Draco Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    See thats just the difference. You're playing on the PC and I play on the Xbox. In terms of technical power.... PC KOTOR 2 > Xbox KOTOR 2. On the Xbox it isn't 5 seconds for loading times but more like 30-45 seconds.
     
  11. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2005

    A few comments that I have to make about this.

    How many decent REALLY in depth games aren't buggy? Looking at games that aren't shoot em ups....they are all buggy! Some of the best games I've played in the last 3 years.....KOTOR, KOTOR II, Morrowind, Civ IV....all buggy. I know this is a KOTOR II thread, but my favorite out of that batch is Morrowind, and it's bugginess is head and shoulders above the rest. Playing on the computer you can fix some bugs, but as far as console gaming you can't. I mean, playing on the XBOX the head of the Thieves guild just......DISAPPEARED before I could finish all of the quests. Also, I really really enjoyed Morrowind and don't even know how it actually ends. 120 hours on the game and I never finished it. It's definately in my top 5...more likely my top 1 game of all time.

    The point is, these games are alot more detailed (Storywise and NPCwise) than your average shoot em up game. RoTS and Battlefront can be fun but they are in no way comparable to KOTOR or Morrowind in terms of depth. They are much easier projects to complete. Linear storylines. Can you imagine all the hours of playtesting that would have to go into these games to catch all the bugs? They happen for some people...don't happen for others, it's platform determinate, hardware determinate and so on. Projects such as these are very vast in scale.

    That being said...onto the story. You hear all kinds of whining about "WHAT ABOUT THE HK FACTORY?!?!" or "That ending sucked. You should have engulfed all of the force, teleported Reven in from the outer Rim and had to fight 2094390 true Sith." (Ok, I'm exagerrating a bit.) The fact is.....THE GAME IS GOOD! No game will ever be perfect in the eyes of everyone. Seriously. NEVER. What we get with this game is some very interesting party characters (Visas and Kreia being the most interesting to me) with some very unique dialog, a very wide range of choices, changing relationships with the various characters based on your actions and interactions with them, the ability to explore many different planets, cameo tie-ins with characters from the first KOTOR, interaction with Mandalorians, occasional puzzles to stimulate the mind, the ability to be a Jedi Knight or a FREAKING SITH LORD, Spectacular Force powers (I used the force powers much more in KOTORII), and some philisophical discussions showing multiple viewpoints. Seriously, a game where your actions determine which members of your part will open up to you and give you more depth to their stories as well as exciting side adventures, "Mini-Games" that would have passed off as Spectuacular games for the original nintendo (Swoop Race, arena fights, and not so much Pazaak), and people are still up in arms about it?

    I guess I am too. They should have finished it because there would have been MORE of it. They should have taken another 6 months to release it and made it 4 discs long because I would have gotten to play LONGER and had even more fun. Both games of the series were great (Both had strengths and weaknesses......Better overall plot in I, more dialog choices, decisions, and Split party adventures on II) and if I had to pony up $50 right now to gaurentee that they would release a third sometime, I'm all for it. I have not really enjoyed a Star Wars game since X-Wing Alliance. I have not read an EU book since the Thrawn Trilogy. I loved the movies (PT and OT), but KOTOR I&II blew the GFFA wide open for me. A few years ago I had Star Wars buried under my Lord of the Rings/D&D/MTG/Vampires Fantasy World. I don't remember the last time I've even considered those things. I'm starting to become a Star Wars EU junky, I watch the movies too much, and find boards like this much more interesting than I did before KOTOR showed me how compelling the Star Wars universe still could be. Keep the Droid Foundry missing, Keep whatever happened to GOTO, Keep the bugs, just make a KOTOR III.

    Yes, Yes, I'm a gusher, but for heaven's sake how can anyone be THAT disappointed in KOTOR I or II?

    Carnage
     
  12. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    I remember cataloguing dozens of glitchs and bugs to baseline my review. If you so desire, my good Oissan, they are but a fingertip away for you. Clearly, playability is a technical definition here.

    It's only the slide of consumer outrage with time that the company hopes to weather the storm, and abscond with criminal travesty. They are mistaken, if I have any say. In a year, they have rectified all but nothing.
     
  13. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Well, maybe there is something wrong with your computer then, because neither I nor my brother had many problems with the game. There was one bug that froze the game, but that only happened once or twice and it was in the first one as well. Apart from that there were only some minor bugs, bugs that happen in every game, because you can't make it flawless...
     
  14. Lord-Draco

    Lord-Draco Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Again, I play KOTOR/KOTOR 2 on the Xbox, not the PC.
     
  15. plo_koom

    plo_koom Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    I bet a lot of them are exploitation glitches, glitches you have to try for hours to set off and even then, few of them aren't game ending.
     
  16. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    As my review said, these were the sort of system and gameplay glitches that couldn't possibly have been invisible to the myriad game testers, Oissan.

    Issues like your companions not attacking in concert with you. Or stuck in walls. I'm not talking about the shocking garbage of the movies---three stop-start clips just to land on Telos, many just 2 secs long. I'm talking about actual gameplay bugs that most certainly was not unseen in any beta and final testing.

    These are not issues that other games also have. Not to this extent; and honestly, my list of two dozen faults didn't come out of helium air.

    The company is hoping fans like the Sith Lords Restoration project will clean their nappy for free, or for the storm to blow over with time. It's the fans who have themselves to blame. If they voiced enough outrage and kept doing so, now, after a year, the company would be forced into repentent action. It's a post like this that they fear most. This isn't just something you can dismiss---they're happy to take your money, remember. I'm not a fanatic or furious rage, but I know when I've bought serious garbage, and not even Homeworld 2 was that badly designed compared to this. This game with absolutely no ending.

    It's not inconceivable a class action suit could be made. They provided a naked product sans the clothes.
     
  17. Mandalorian-Jedi

    Mandalorian-Jedi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 28, 2005
    Finished it.

    Underwhelmed.

    I played through expecting some really cool ending and a resolution but also a cliffhanger. Not just a ship flying away from an exploding planet! And where did he Hawk come from? Who died when it fell?


    Aaaahhhhh!!!
     
  18. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2005


    If indeed it turns out that it is a Trilogy, it is a good middle part of a Trilogy. Compare the actualy Star Wars OT to KOTOR (Canon Light Side Ending)

    ANH: Our good heroes save the galaxy from evil temporarily and have a big celebration.
    KOTOR: Our good heroes save the galaxy from evil temporarily and have a big celebration.

    ESB: We find out that the Evil wasn't defeated forever. A new mentor comes in and tells our hero much more about the force than we learned before. Revelations of the past of the characters and what they are about is the "Action". There was no big blowing up a Death Star/Star Forge type thing. We have a History lesson taught by an evil father to a son and a member of the party lost somewhere, encased in carbonite. The heroes appear downtrodden and at a turning point without a real clear sense of direction. Perhaps to reunite with a lost friend (Han) and finally go try and defeat the evil (The Sith Lords)

    KOTOR2: We find out that the Evil wasn't defeated forever. There are more Sith lords. A new mentor comes in and tells our hero much more about the force than we learned before. Revalations of occurances of the past and the issue of Reven's disappearance is important. We have many a history lesson taught by an evil "Mother" to a son and she is killed. The fate of the heroes are uncertain and they are at a turning point without a real clear sense of direction. Perhaps to reunite with the lost Reven and go defeat the Sith Lurking in the unknown regions?

    RoTJ: Reunites all of our heroes and they finally defeat the evil forces.
    KOTOR3: Reunite all of our heroes and defeat the true sith?

    If they release a KOTOR3 that fulfills the RoTJ role in the saga, it will make the "Incomplete" and anticlimactic KOTOR2 seem greater. And as I feel, 100 hours of exploration (50 on light side game, 50 on dark....the game is quite a different experience depending on how you play), philisophical dialog, cameos of old friends, and mashing of Enemies with your lightsabre and force powers is just plain cool. I do have prolems with the game too.....Glitches in the XBOX version....Nihilus being just this.....thing...Sion being a Whimpering little beezatch, GOTO being dumb....missing the HK sidequest.....it could have been better but it could have been worse, it could have not been made at all!

    Carnage

    Carnage
     
  19. TeddyV

    TeddyV Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2005
    So anything new of the fixes for KOTOR II?

     
  20. Darth_FattyAss

    Darth_FattyAss Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2002
    The restoration team has invited roughly 11 people to Beta test their patch. IT sounds as if a generally release is still a couple of months away. For more info check http://www.team-gizka.org/
     
  21. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    This should be interesting.
     
  22. snelson

    snelson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 2005
    kotor 2 is a good game not as good as the first there were some problems the ending sucked. when you play for 45 minutes the game freezes i play the x-box version
     
  23. DarthKakarot

    DarthKakarot Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2005
    I think the games should be remade on the x-box 360 anywho.
     
  24. TeddyV

    TeddyV Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2005
    I think they should just give us a Free expansion pack that fixes everything and restores all of the goodies they took out.
    I would not mind playing KOTOR II TSL: Gold Edition.
     
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