Kung-fu Vader

A recent thread ("EU Shift") mentioned that the EU now features high octane lightsaber duels. Obviously this "shift" came about due to the PT's extreme combat sequences. Now this is just my opinion, but from a film standpoint, Darth Maul's martial arts skills are head and shoulders above Vader's fencing in the OT. Obviously most of this descrepency is due to advancement in the film industry and the progression of martial arts in the current box office.

In my opinion, if the Vader/Luke duels had been finished by 2002 standards, we would be seeing very different, more intense martial arts sequences.

Here is my question: Has the EU began to depict Vader as a master Martial artist? If so, what are the sources? My guess is that the comics are the only media that depict Vader in this light.

 

No, Vader doesn't need to be flashy. In Exticntion, Empire, and other Vader stories his fighting style is simple, but overwhelmingly powerful.

 

Here is my question: Has the EU began to depict Vader as a master Martial artist? If so, what are the sources? My guess is that the comics are the only media that depict Vader in this light.

See Crimson Empire #2

 

That's not to say he can't show off when he wants to.

 

Actually that should be Crimson Empire#1. Vader drop kicks his opponent.

 

Perhaps the difference is in the necessity. During maul?s fight with obi-wan and Qui-gon, the only times I can remember him using TK is to throw a piece of debris at the door switch, and to push an already overbalanced Obiwan into that open shaft.

Vader on the other hand, without even the need for a gesture, was pulling fixtures from the wall to throw at Luke during their besbin duel? I think Vader was more powerful, or at least his use of the force was more comprehensive.

Perhaps Corran Horn would need to fight like Maul, but not Vader!

If they filmed it today? I dunno. With the design of the Vader costume, it might have been tricky to include any over-complicated acrobatics. Maul?s outfit was designed with this in mind. I think if it was re-done, then Luke would definitely use more martial art skill, a bit like Keanu Reeves? But maybe not Vader. For me, he was powerful, solid and ominous, the odd spinning kick or backflip might even detract from that!

 

*Ahem*...*Clears throat*

Darth Vader was kung fu fighting,
With the Force he had expert timing.
Vader was a little bit frightening,
That Sith Lord was Kung Fu fighting.

OHohohOHHHHHHHHHHH!

OhohohOHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

Vader doesn't NEED to do fancy acrobatics. Heck, notice how easily he beats down Luke in ESB.

In Crimson Empire it seemed as if he were just having fun, but it definitely shows that he could be mobile if he wanted to.

You could also count the back flip off the stairs in ROTJ, but then again that was more him falling from Luke than acrobatics really.

 

I believe Lucas stated in some sort of interview that the reason for such a difference in the OT and PT fighting styles was that prior to TPM the only lightsaber battles we had seen were between an old man, a crippled automaton and a kid who didnt quite know what the hell he was doing. Vader is powerful, but I don't think he has the phyisical ability to be as adaquate a martial artist as depicted by Darth Maul-if he did, he wouldn't need a machine to breathe for him.

 

Lucas is full of crap and was trying to shut whiny fan boys up who asked too many stupid questions.

He simply had a change of taste and choreography.

Everyone see Cromson Empire#1 for Kung Fu Vader. Seriously, do you think proethtics as advanced as the ones they have in the GFFA would impede Vader's physical abilities? Think Data from Star Trek.

 

...the reason for such a difference in the OT and PT fighting styles was that prior to TPM the only lightsaber battles we had seen were between an old man, a crippled automaton and a kid who didnt quite know what the hell he was doing

All valid points, for certain. However, we've now seen a nearly 900 year old 3'-tall green gnome leaping and somersaulting in a saber duel against a very spry 80-plus year old human

Hmm...maybe they had more fiber in their diet than old Obi-Wan and Vader did?

 

It's just a movie guys. Things were limited back then. Smaller budget etc. Plus, even though Vader could do such things, a real guy in a giant costume would have much more difficulty doing flips and stuff. That's why there's a difference.

See Crimson Empire#1 for Vader doing fancing Maul like moves.

 

matthew trias seems to like crimson empire alot...

I take fencing, and i think it's enough to cut someone in half, you don't need to be the iron monkey against a kid who just found the on switch.

 

I'll grant that since Yoda gave Luke a "Jedi crash course", so to speak, he musta taught the kid only the basest of lightsaber combat techniques. He probably did not throw the fancy martial arts into the mix out of time or health constraints. Thus, Luke's fighting style was rather stiff -- he only had the sparsest of trainings in comparison to his old man's or Obi-Wan's, who were trained in the Jedi arts from a much younger age.

Likewise, Anakin's condition must've affected his overall agility. So, even though Vader had a few decades of experience over Luke, age, injuries and perhaps a purposefully limited armor and/or bionics curtailed what should've been a more kick-ass fighting ability.

 

*Ahem*...*Clears throat*

Darth Vader was kung fu fighting,
With the Force he had expert timing.
Vader was a little bit frightening,
That Sith Lord was Kung Fu fighting.

OHohohOHHHHHHHHHHH!

OhohohOHHHHHHHHHHH!



exactly what i thought of when i first saw the thread!



There were, funky jedi meeee_en...

from funky jedi town!

 

I think if Star Wars had been done in order, with Episode I coming out in 77, Darth Maul would have looked like Vader.

Then when ANH came out, Vader would have looked like Maul.

 

Isn't there a 'Tales' story where Vader fights a cloned Maul? any Kung fu there?

 

I read that comic, they didn't call hima cloned Maul, they just said something about the Darkside bringing him back to fight Vader.
Remeber that moment in ESB when vader jumped down the stairs? They made him a little more comicbook-ish in his mobility.

 

So far...the prequel duels...while flashy, seem rather empty...whereas the less frenetic OT duels seemed to mean something...it wasn't so much a contest of saber skill...but of the the feelings and the will of those involved......there was more of an emotional content to the battles...and i personaly think that the less frenetic style of the OT realy lends its self to that effect......despite its visualy stunning style...i wouldn't mind if EPIII's major duels were closer to the originals than the hyperactive ones we've seen of late...

 

Likewise, Anakin's condition must've affected his overall agility. So, even though Vader had a few decades of experience over Luke, age, injuries and perhaps a purposefully limited armor and/or bionics curtailed what should've been a more kick-ass fighting ability.

Why I bring up Crimson Empire, is because in that book Vader is shown doing some pretty acrobatic stuff despite his condition. Jumping to avoid a swipe, then somersaulting over his oppenent's head. Then using his staff for balance as he kicks his foe in the face with both feet. *ahem* just seems like people are ignoring my suggestion.

Let's not forget that the places they dueled in wouldn't have allowed for flashy acrobatics. Nor would Vader really need em. It's not his style usually.

 

Anyone here read fantasy lit? Or has anyone read, seen, or played anything with a guy-with-a-big-sword archetypal character? I think Vader in a down-and-dirty duel would be doing some cool looking, semi-fancy two-handed grip moves; swiping, spinning slashes and stuff like Qui-Gon could do. If anyone here reads DemonWars, maybe compare to Andacanavar? Or maybe Aragorn the way Bob Anderson trained Viggo Mortensen to portray him. Not super-fancy, but still cool looking in the dramatic way he fought.

Just some thoughts, nothing profound here.