Kyle Katarn, not a real character.

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Vong_Killer, Sep 21, 2001.

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  1. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

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    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2001
    star 5
    And saying that they're not characters at all is ridicules.

    TC
  2. Grand Admiral Reese Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 1999
    star 6
    <<The prophecies, the immense power, the effortless skill and the maximum result.>>

    There can't be more than one child of prophecy in the galaxy? It's a big place, you know...lots of prophecies(and, not every prophecy can have the same hero). Remember, Kyle didn't kill anywhere near as many baddies(excluding the Dark Jedi and Dark Troopers)as he did in the games, that's just gameplay. Not that he didn't kill any, but mostly he snuck around, avoiding the guys with conc rifles and thermal detonators.

  3. Domenic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2001
    star 1
    Someone somewhere also said he apeared in Darksaber when they were channeling the force through Dorsk 81...

    I'm too lazy to go look it up right now tho
  4. Darth McClain Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Its been a while (fortunatley) since I've read that book, but I dont recall him being mentioned in it.
  5. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    His name wasn't in the book, it was all explained in the Essential Chronology...another source that considers Game Characters official.
  6. JediMasterAaron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    I've since been forced to amend my thoughts on this issue. I now acknowledge Kyle as a viable and true character of the Star Wars EU as a whole. But he is in no way a mainstream character. This isn't to say it's a bad thing, but he's really not. I wouldn't mind seeing him show up in the NJO, because apparently he would have alot to offer, but I honestly doubt it's going to happen.

    JMA
  7. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    He's not a mainstream character, I definitely agree. Neither, in that sense of the word, is Corran. And yet they've both interacted with the main stream, and worked on issues of mutual interest. I don't want a NJO book focussing on Kyle, I'm just hoping that an author will acknowledge his existence, tell us where he's been, and add him into the equation.
  8. jedimasterED Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 1999
    star 4
    Well, whether or not we all agree on Kyle's "officialness", all those who are clammoring for Katarn to be seen in the NJO might not get their wish.

    If I read the recent PC Gamer article correctly (and I think I did since I've read it 20+ times trying to pull any meaningful story information out of the giant advertisement), as of the printing of the article (which takes place, of course, after the events of the game), Kyle Katarn is described as "the now-retired Jedi outcast".

    What exactly am I saying? It seems to me that Kyle's career must go something like this:

    Kyle steals part of the Death Star plans; trains the Katarn Commandos; undoes the Darktrooper plot; fulfills the prophecy of the Valley of the Jedi; trains as a Jedi at the Jedi Academy on Yavin IV; "tutors" Mara Jade on Altyr 5; travels to Drumond Kaas to uncover the mysteries of the Sith; and returns from Drumond Kaas to leave the Jedi order giving Master Skywalker his lightsaber, afraid of "losing his soul to the Dark Side of the Force". [All derived from the Dark Forces games, books, or conjecture.]

    Some eight years later, events transpire that bring Kyle back into the struggle between the light and the dark. These events are chronicled in the yet-to-be-released Jedi Knight II - Jedi Outcast.

    After Jedi Outcast, it appears Kyle "retires" once again from his "career as a Jedi" (I despise that term, BTW).

    So, if MotS wraps up sometime around 10+ years after the Battle of Yavin, Kyle's been "retired" for a while by the time the Yuuzhan Vong enter the galaxy.

    Here's hoping he, like others, leaves retirement for this one.
  9. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Kyle steals part of the Death Star plans; trains the Katarn Commandos; undoes the Darktrooper plot; fulfills the prophecy of the Valley of the Jedi; trains as a Jedi at the Jedi Academy on Yavin IV; "tutors" Mara Jade on Altyr 5; travels to Drumond Kaas to uncover the mysteries of the Sith; and returns from Drumond Kaas to leave the Jedi order giving Master Skywalker his lightsaber, afraid of "losing his soul to the Dark Side of the Force". [All derived from the Dark Forces games, books, or conjecture.]

    Some eight years later, events transpire that bring Kyle back into the struggle between the light and the dark. These events are chronicled in the yet-to-be-released Jedi Knight II - Jedi Outcast.

    After Jedi Outcast, it appears Kyle "retires" once again from his "career as a Jedi"


    You've got things a little out of order:

    Kyle steals the DS plans, spends a time as a merc and pirates, foils the Dark Trooper plot, fulfills the prophecy of the Valley of the Jedi, tutors Mara Jade on Altyr 5, travels to Drumond Kaas to uncover the mysteries of the Sith; and returns from Drumond Kaas with Mara's assistance; trains as a Jedi on Yavin IV; then gives Skywalker his lightsaber for fear of the Dark Side.

    Four years later (nine after JK, the eight after MotS is apparently erroneous)events transpire that bring Kyle back into the struggle between the light and the dark. These events are chronicled in the yet-to-be-released Jedi Knight II - Jedi Outcast.

    It's yet to be seen how that game ends, but it takes place around the time of The Crystal Star, which leaves him plenty of time before NJO.

    Another interesting point is that in JO Kyle is a master of both the light and dark sides of the Force...

    And another is that given the inevitable success of this game (come on, the legacy of Dark Forces meets the team behind Elite Force), there will also inevitably be an expansion.
  10. Vong_Killer Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 3
    Thanx for the help. I'll make point of reading the Katarn Graphics in the near future, and maybe i'll see it from a different angle.
  11. JediMasterAaron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    "Neither, in that sense of the word, is Corran."

    I disagree with you there Mastadge. Corran is a book character first and foremost, which are without a doubt the most widespread form of Star Wars EU. The books, I think, are what define mainstream. Corran has since appeared several times in the NJO, playing crucial roles in two of the books, which gives him even more mainstream credibility.

    JMA
  12. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    <<I disagree with you there Mastadge. Corran is a book character first and foremost, which are without a doubt the most widespread form of Star Wars EU. The books, I think, are what define mainstream. Corran has since appeared several times in the NJO, playing crucial roles in two of the books, which gives him even more mainstream credibility.
    >>

    Kyle played a crucial role in 3 books.

    Corran is no more of a character than Kyle. "More books" does not outweigh another character's importance.

    <<Kyle steals part of the Death Star plans; trains the Katarn Commandos>>

    Actually, that's never been confirmed anywhere. It's just conjecture and speculation, really.

    The Katarn Commandos first appeared in the Heir to the Empire Sourcebook. ( 1992 ) They were led by Lieutenant Page and were named after the predatory katarn of the planet Kashyyyk.

    In 1994, as Justin Chin developed the backstory for Kyle Katarn, he probably had it in mind to link him with this commando unit, but it was never confirmed. Just noted as some kind of coincidence by us fans.


  13. JediMasterAaron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    "Kyle played a crucial role in 3 books."

    You're missing my point. The Dark Forces novels are not mainstream reading, in the same sense that the X-Wing novels, the NJO...etc. Kyle is a viable character. Kyle is not mainstream. And even Valiento and Ghengis I think would agree with me.

    JMA
  14. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Why does it matter if it's mainstream or not? The "mainstream" books almost always focus on Han Luke and Leia to begin with.
  15. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    disagree with you there Mastadge. Corran is a book character first and foremost, which are without a doubt the most widespread form of Star Wars EU. The books, I think, are what define mainstream. Corran has since appeared several times in the NJO, playing crucial roles in two of the books, which gives him even more mainstream credibility

    And I must disagree with you. When I think of the SW mainstream, I think of the movie characters. Many fans of SW novels as a whole that I've spoken to have skipped the X-wing novels entirely because they're about different characters. And in case you didn't notice, the X-wing books themselves were, admittedly loosely, based on the computer games and wouldn't have been written if not for the success of same. Why do you think I, Jedi wasn't published as an X-wing book, when more than half of it is a followup to the X-wing line (as opposed to the JAT parts)? It's because if it were not a "mainstream" SW novel, with Luke on the cover yada yada, it would not have been as widely received.

    Corran is the main character of non-mainstream books, based on video games, who interacted with mainstream characters

    Kyle is the main character of non-mainstream games, adapted into books, who interacted with mainstream characters.
  16. KansasNavy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2001
    star 4
    If it weren't for games, I wouldn't be a SW fan. After playing XvT, I decided to read the X-wing Series, and here I am, many books, games, and comics later. I love games, and I believe they're good entertainment. They have great storylines, and, like said earlier, fill in gaps between stories. Rogue Squadron, X-wing: Alliance, Force Commander, MotS, etc. I get the strategy guides for each game, because they're created like novels, and describe the actual events (as opposed to if the player created the history).

    And, Kyle Katarn has a living flesh-and-blood actor: Jason Court. Only Mara can claim that title as well.

    Keyan Farlander, Maarek Stele, Ace Azzameen, Brenn Tantor, Kyle Katarn, and Mara Jade are all game main characters that played important roles in the EU.
  17. JediMasterAaron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    "Why does it matter if it's mainstream or not? The "mainstream" books almost always focus on Han Luke and Leia to begin with."

    I'm not sure it does. I'm just pointing out that if you ask the average Star Wars fan who Kyle Katarn is, they'll probably go "Who?", whereas if you ask who Jacen Solo or Anakin Solo is, they'll go.."Yeah, Han and Leia's kid". Kyle is not anywhere near as well-known, because of his lack of exposure into the main story arcs of the Star Wars EU literature.

    "Corran is the main character of non-mainstream books, based on video games, who interacted with mainstream characters"

    Corran is a main character in I,Jedi, which deals in large part with events taking place at the Jedi Praxaeum during Kevin Anderson's JAT. the JAT is most definitely a widely read series, much more so than the Dark Forces novelizations (Although there's no accounting for taste, because the JAT is pretty sad in my opinion). Corran is also a main character in the Dark Tide duology, which is part of the NJO storyline, which is the very definition of mainstream at this point. Corran is, without a doubt, a mainstream character.

    I feel the need to state again, lest my ramblings be misinterpreted, that I have nothing against the character of Kyle Katarn. I readily admit, after some prodding from Ghengis and Valiento ;), that Kyle is an extremely viable EU character, and important in his own right. I dug the Dark Forces games immensely, and can't wait for Jedi Outcast. I just don't think of him as mainstream, in the same sense that I think of Luke, Leia, Mara, Han...etc. as being mainstream, widely recognized characters. This isn't to say he's less cool, just not as well known.

    JMA

  18. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Okay...so...What was your point again?
  19. JediMasterAaron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    "Okay...so...What was your point again?"

    Merely that he is not mainstream EU. As you say, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of SW EU if he is or not, I just happen to believe that he's not.

    JMA
  20. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Okay. I know that he's not as well.

    But he's still a character. A valid character that has affected the EU in various ways, both big and small. ;)
  21. JWK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2000
    star 4
    The comics don't count until the Books refer to them and then it gives me a headache.
  22. JediMasterAaron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    "But he's still a character. A valid character that has affected the EU in various ways, both big and small."

    We are in complete agreement there. He has indeed affected EU as a whole, and is also indeed, a character.

    JMA
  23. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    And, Kyle Katarn has a living flesh-and-blood actor: Jason Court. Only Mara can claim that title as well.

    Rookie One, Ru Murleen

    As to that comics not counting until reference in books:

    Not only does LFL say differently, but in that case...Essential Chronology is a book that referenced all the comics out. There you go.
  24. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
  25. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Up? The topic is done and finished. You saw to that Mastadge.
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