Kyle Katarn, not a real character.

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Vong_Killer, Sep 21, 2001.

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  1. Kier_Nimmion Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 5

    Well, I for one consider both he and Jan Ors real characters, in fact, I they're some of my personal favorites. I get a little tired of Han-Luke-Leia all the time, especially, and I know I'll make a great deal of people mad with this, Zhan's handling of Luke Skywalker in the Thrawn trilogy was awful to say the least.

    Anyway, as I understand it, anything okay'd like Lucas Licensing as far as stories are concerned, is considered canon to the Star Wars universe. Thus, if LucasArts makes a video game, then since it is a part of LucasFilm Ltd. then it is canon. This unfortunately applies to the earwax movies, cartoons and the Holiday Special...well, maybe not the Holiday Special.

    While it may have its downsides, I think this is by far a great way to ensure continuity in the universe, but it makes things harder for authors who want to slot stories into a specific point in time. Going further, I like characters like Corran Horn, Kyle Katarn et al often better than the movie characters.

    On the other side of the coin, only what appears in a Star Trek movie or TV series are considered canon- the books/comics/games etc. are ignored, and seem to exist only to make Paramount and Viacom more money. And even tv series and movies contradict each other, almost on a regular basis. When Enterprise debuts, I know it's going to butcher established Trek canon, because Rick Verman is just that type of guy. Gene Roddenbery would be spinning in his grave if he knew about things like DS9 and Voyager. I'd really like to know what Majel Roddenvbery things of all this or have they salved the wounds with a really big checque.
  2. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    quote: Your opinion doesn't matter.

    LOL, that was funny!
    I think Sturm has a definite future working for the Empire..

    Anyhow, Mr. Katarn is a real character. He had a cameo in the Leviathan graphic novel, I think he might've shown up in Union, and he has three whole graphic novels devoted to him.
  3. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Actually even holiday special is part of continuity, and and influenced the EU. Kube mcdowell even said lfl told him it was canon.

    It is also the source for most of the Anti-alien, nazilike sentiment as well, as is seen in most of the Bantam EU.

    You may not be awhare but ds9, and voyager, were both based on roddenberry's plans. enterprise is the only one that never thought of by roddenberry, as far as I know.
  4. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Jeez, sorry I missed all of the fun. :D

    JMA...
    "Kyle is not mainstream. And even Valiento and Ghengis I think would agree with me."

    Both characters debuted as GAME characters and later made their way into novels.

    In that sense, Corran Horn is essentially the same as Kyle Katarn. Katarn is not a mainstream character, but neither is Corran (and Mara, Callista, Thrawn, Sedriss, Kam, etc. for that matter - but that's a different discussion).

    Corran Horn first appeared not in any comic book or novel (the fundamental expanded universe items going back 24 years), but in a RPG product - Star Wars Adventure Journal.

    Kyle Katarn first appeared not in a novel or comic book, but in a game product - Dark Forces.

    Later both characters' mythology were in novels and comic books (if you believe Leviathan, but Jedi vs. Sith has established Jedi Knight's place in the comic scheme of things).

    Therefore, neither character has any sort of claim to be "more novel" or "more mainstream" than the other.

    So, getting to the point at hand, I disagree that Kyle Katarn is less mainstream than any other pure-EU character.
  5. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Hell, even j vs. s, had kyle katarn's prophecy fortold at the end of it.
  6. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    Valiento: What exactly did the Prophecy say?
  7. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    "A Knight will come...
    A battle will be fought..."

    Something like that. It's taken directly out of the Dark Forces novels.
  8. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    What is the context?


    EDIT: Never mind. I'll just head down to the local comic shop and "browse." :)
  9. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    :D Well, you know you can support our Katarn-inspired series and purchase it. :p

    JvsS Spoilers...




















    The context is that all of the souls of the Jedi in the Battle of Ruusan were trapped in Lord Kaan's Sith weapon, the "thought bomb." (The souls of all the Sith were there too). So, the floaters with their uncanny Force-connection forsaw that one day these souls would be set free. He told Katarn's JvsS "alter-ego" about this prophecy and it lasted until Katarn's time when Jerec came looking for the valley where the Battle of Ruusan was fought - the Valley of the Jedi. It was Katarn who ended up fufilling the prophecy which originated in Jedi Knight, but was established in-universe in Jedi vs. Sith.
  10. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    "Corran Horn first appeared not in any comic book or novel (the fundamental expanded universe items going back 24 years), but in a RPG product - Star Wars Adventure Journal."

    Ghengis-

    Thanks for pointing that out, I wasn't aware of that. I still say that Corran is a more familiar character to the general EU audience than Kyle is, simply because he has appeared in A) His own novel that is immersed within the mainstream EU story arc and B) He's been a major factor in the NJO, the very definition of mainstream at this point. Just my opinion.

    JMA
  11. Ana Vitorrian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 1999
    star 3
    I take a broad point-of-view in that all characters featured in LFL star wars licensed products are official characters within the SWEU. However, how they get treated and presented from there on within the SWEU is the continuing challenge.

    Kyle Katarn has the advantage of being featured across several different SW licensees - including his own action figure - which is an extremely rare achievement for any Non-Film SWEU character.

    [By the way, Jan Ors does get some print in one of WEG's Galaxy Guides. I forget the number, but it's the one specifically for The Empire Strikes Back. Check out Rogue Squadron's Roster Bios in that WEG Supplement - you'll notice one of the Rogues, (I forget his name) has a past connection to Jan Ors.]
  12. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Are you serious Ana, the 1st ed. GG3: Empire Strikes Back was published in 1989/1990 if I remember correctly - well before Jan Ors was a twinkle in LucasArts eye.

    Now, I guess they could've added something to the 2nd Ed. revision of it, but it seemed they really didn't make many substantial changes to the bios - just included some more graphics and some narratives.

    Now, either Jan Ors existed prior to LucasArts (sort of like Squib Mace Windu), or it was a new addition.

    I don't doubt you, but it is indeed interesting. One finds good stuff all of the time digging through WEG's stuff - as evidenced by their use of Kiffar/Kiffu in Riders of the Maelstrom long before Dark Horse ever created Quinlan Vos and used his people.
  13. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    According to the Dark Forces strategy guide jan ors character was invented to act as narrator and mouth piece for kyle katarn, after they found out that in-level cutscenes would not work very well with the DF engine.
  14. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    Yeah, Ana, I remember that as well. Not sure if it was in the 1st Edition, but it was definately in the 2nd, under "Tarrin Datch's" bio.
  15. Ana Vitorrian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 1999
    star 3
    Thanks Mavrick889 - I was going off the 2nd Edition and I believe the Rogue you sited is the same one I'm thinking of.

    Genghis12 and Valiento - I don't know all (or any of) the backends on this Jan Ors reference - but it's there. For the Kyle Katarn completest, it's worth looking into.

    Weird stuff!

    Ana V
  16. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Ana, or mav, Could you type up the quote for me, :-D, so I can save it to my HD? It's a bit hard to find those old WEG books.
  17. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    I actually don't have a copy of the book here, i might be able to soon though!
  18. RebelOutlaw_Ace Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2001
    star 2
    Thought I should clear something up:

    According to the Star Wars Encyclopedia, Kyle created the Katarn's Commandos. They were an extremely elite team of men, and when Kyle retired from the team, he handed the leadership over to none other than Pash Cracken, who then created the team's insignia of the Kashyyykian Katarn pouncing out of the New Republic crest.

    Also, in Leviathan, they show some guy lightsaber sparring with another guy, one of which looks like Kyle, correct? I haven't actually read the book, but I read somewhere that his cameo went something like that.

    -Reb
  19. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    It doesn't say that in the in the Official Star wars encyclapedia. It says katarn commando's are named after the katarn of kasshyk
  20. RebelOutlaw_Ace Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2001
    star 2
    Did you look until Kyle's name or the Katarn's Commandos? I thought it said the same thing...

    -Reb
  21. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Alright, I have both of them right here :D

    GG3: Empire Strikes Back (1989)
    ...and of course no Tarrin Datch to be found. :(

    GG3: Empire Strikes Back (1996)
    "...When he dismantled a particularly stubborn plate, he found a hidden compartment containing a striking, if wounded, human female. She seemed delirious, probably the result of the strange wound on her right leg. She called herself Jan Ors, and Tarrin was both terrified and captivated. The crew of the freighter had gone to find medicinal supplies for Ors, to heal a strangely infected wound sustained in the jungles of Oulanne. In her delirium, Ors mentioned to Tarrin that the freighter contained a cargo full of prime-grade fuel slugs destined for the Rebellion...As Jan went off to other special missions, Tarrin began training as a fighter pilot..."

    Good eye, Ms. Vitorian. ;) Would've certainly sat in obscurity on my bookshelf - generally didn't have any need to go through the revised version in detail. :D

    Minor tidbit in the 1st ed. Wedge's gunner on Hoth was Derit Janson. However, only a few pages later, we learn Wes Janson is a gunner. Brother-brother gunner team on Hoth? Is Derit a typo or does he exist?
  22. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Derit janson was in hoth stuff, :D, ;).

    One error fixed in that issue just a few more to go, ;).
  23. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Good one Val. :D

    However, one cannot get away from the fact that Luke, Leia and a random Rebel all partake of the Wedge Antilles insanity.

    I'm sure Luke knows what Wedge sounds like, and unfortunately, he was rather clear in identifying Wedge's voice. :(

    Of course, Wedge states that he boarded his Y-Wing with Janson - his bud and most likely his Hoth gunner.

    We know, of course that the Y-Wing gets shot down and Janson never recovers from the wounds suffered there and dies from being tortured.

    Wes Janson's superhuman bacta-recovery injuries are most likely extreme embellishment and it was probably Derit Janson who died tragically on Hoth.

    That way, Hoth stuff at least doesn't contradict anything with Wes Janson's being alive. It was Derit Janson who died. WEG says Derit Janson was Wedge's gunner. Because Hoth Stuff doesn't give the first name of the Janson who died, it must've been Derit.

    Even a mortal wound is a bit much for bacta to heal, no matter what stories Wes likes to tell.

    Now, however, it still leaves the fact that things are still a bit wedgie with the story.
  24. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Well, second off all the parts it says Tatooine and his girlfriend there, you have to put correllia instead.

    The bubble were it says that luke was a childhood friend of wedges on tatooine would have to be drastically rewritten(in the SE comic edition, ;) ), to mean something more in the lines of friends since the Death star incident.

    Where it talks about derit janson, ;) and wedge attending academy together, that was just highschool academy, not carida, ;).
  25. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Simple - the staple of all Star Wars time problems.

    They were talking "childhood" in terms of "Noghri-years."

    At their age (early twenties) - they can be considered to still be children in any number of long-lived species' eyes. So, they both can be considered to be childhood friends - just not human-childhood friends. :D
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