ST Kylo Ren and Rey in VIII and IX (See new guidelines on page 228)

Kylo and Rey are the same characters at the end of TLJ that they were at the end of TFA.

Really the entire story for this trilogy's characters was told in TFA.

It's all just filler until the very end.

 

You know, I thought reylo wouldn't reduce rey to just a "save him with love" kind of character. Yet all I'm seeing are people arguing that rey is the one to redeem kylo ren. Thats her purpose for being I guess.


and darth vader was luke's father.

 

Honestly, by that point I won't care. Like I've posted elsewhere, this is getting redundant and exhausting.

 

He went full #Revolution.

 

kylo is going to have to choose between power or love. but he can't have both.

 

Oh man, guys, both of those went right over my head.

My nerdness DOES have a limit.

 

Hasn't he already chosen power like multiple times though? He's had so many people beg him to come back and he's said no every single time. After a while it gets kinda old with the "will he won't he" thing. Almost like wondering for two years who Rey's parents are.

As for the thing with hope, we already have three protagonists who come from pretty much nothing, who are put through hell and high water because of Kylo and the forces he's sided with. Yet those people chose the right thing even though they had tragic backstories and every reason to side with evil.

I feel like a "Hope" based ending could still be had with them instead of focusing everything on Kylo, who continues to be their antithesis at every turn. And again, we've tried to have a Rey that tried to help "Ben" and it felt really off and we see how it ended.

 

The thing is that choices exist in the moment, independent of the past. So Kylo can still choose light or dark in everything he does just like always. I don't know how it will end.

 

Hope, by destroying the last Skywalker? Nope, Kylo needs to be defeated for sure, but hope doesn't live by who you kill but with who you save (paraphrasing Rose)

 

Not spoilery preface: his mother made the decision to send him to Luke. From her conversation with Han in TFA, it was a very unilateral decision. I don't doubt that she did it with very loving and concerned intentions, but for a child or adolescent there's going to chafe knowing you're seen enough of a liability or a screw up that you're not just shipped to a family member to deal with, you're sent to an uncharted school worlds away that no one know where it is located. So even if you really really want to go home, chances are your parents don't know where you are. Secret hidden Jedi academy translates into zero parents' weekend or visits. Did he have any contact with his family once he went to Luke's academy, or was communication cut off entire.

But then it gets worse from there ...

Spoiler

everyone senses there's too much darkness in you. You can't hide it from your uncle. He's Your teacher. He knows everything. So some time passes and the darkness starts to become overwhelming, but you haven't acted on. You're still innocent of any crimes. But you feel like your constantly being torn apart.

And then one night you wake up to your uncle, some one you trusted to look out for you standing over you with his lightsaber drawn, a hair's breadth from murdering you. That's incredibly traumatic. That isn't something you get over.

But was this the plan all the long? Does Mom know your uncle was seconds away from killing you? Unilateral decisions are often made with little discussion other than "Ny word is final." Did Mom sens you there not to learn and be protected. Did she send you there so your uncle could kill you?

Kylo may assume that. If one family member so casually toyed with the idea of murdering him, what's not to say his mother and/or father weren't in on a grander plan?

So yeah, it wouldn't take much to jump to conclusions. He may have thought they all wanted him dead.

 

I never meant that they kill him off but I get what you're saying (also Rose bothers me for some reason. I feel like it would've been more emotional for her to sacrifice herself like her sister than to end up in ANOTHER coma. Seriously that's the third coma over the span of two movies. I"m not emotional invested in her character enough to care about what happens when she wakes up or if she'll be ok. I'm sorry I had to get that out).

Also when it comes to the Skywalkers I'm not sure what to think anymore. Some people say they want the Skywalkers to end, some people say that they have to keep them around. Some people say they didn't want Rey to be a Skywalker because Star Wars needs a non-Skywalker protagonist for once, but then why would Kylo need to be kept alive?

If we're truly done with the Skywalkers, it would be fitting for him to just die if we don't care about them anymore. Not that I want him to, but there's a lot of picking and choosing being done. Not that I"m saying you're doing that, but I see a lot of those comments here.

If we're going for a Hope ending that does involve Kylo, then I think that him rejecting the Dark Side and trying to come to peace with himself is probably the best ending. But again I don't like the idea of him having an invisible 'get out of jail free' card just because he's got the Skywalker tag on him.

 

I feel like the comas are significant since there are three of them, one per act. Finn wakes from a coma and finds Rose. Rose falls into a coma at the end and Finn waits at her bedside. It kind of makes me wanna cry... ?

 

The thing is that Star Wars is ultimately optimistic- Killing off all the Skywalkers seems too grim dark for me. I always said Rey didn't need to be a Skywalker for the story to work, but I am not out for blood for the remaining ones either.

I don't think being a Skywalker gets Kylo a get out of free card, but it certainly doesn't hurt. Mainly because he is an important legacy character that we are invested in. Tbh, beloved characters get a lot of leeway in general. GoT fans are not calling out for Tyrion's blood for killing a dude and dumping the body so it ends up in a stew. DBZ fans aren't calling for Vegeta to go to jail after murdering a grandstand of martial arts fans. These characters are well liked, and get to love long happy years. (well, we will see with Tyrion, lol)

 

I don't think they would actually get together until, and if, there are Episodes 10-12. Part of me wants Kylo to live because he is the last of Anakin's lineage but I don't want him redeemed in a way that reduces Rey as a character either. I do think the idea of him being exiled to Ahch-To might be the way. Perhaps Rey might choose to exile him there rather than kill him. Years down the line a new threat could emerge and Kylo comes back into the fold to try to make some degree of amends but is always haunted by the path he chose.

 

I get what you mean, and again I wasn't saying that you're part of that group, but I've seen the argument before multiple times. But eventually even if Kylo's a Skywalker he has to own up to his crimes at some point. He can't just keep pushing the envelope (to the point of becoming the leader of an evil regime) and keep getting away with it because he's "conflicted" or a "skywalker."

So far the only legacy he ISN'T trying to destroy is Vader's. And don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Kylo to. But not because he's a Skywalker, but because he's an interesting villain. The fact that he's conflicted and on the edge so much but STILL makes bad decisions because he thinks he's in the right is very interesting to me, but that doesn't mean I don't eventually expect him to get what's coming to him.

And I agree with Rian. I don't want him to just die and be gone because there's a lot of potential there, but I don't want him to be able to virtually do whatever he wants just because of who he is. It sends off the wrong message, and it's kind of reflective of today's society in a way.

 

I saw a gif of the PG fight... I am so ready. It looks amazing.

 

Personally this is kind of where I’m at, after TFA I hoped that Rey was a skywalker so we could continue the line but now that she’s random I find myself wanting a Kylo redemption. If there are no skywalkers at the end then I don’t consider that a good ending or a hopeful one. I honestly wish JJ had the guts to somehow (in a good and convincing way) have Kylo knock her up and then die, giving him penance and us a future skywalker. But we can’t have that because what would that say to the 9 year old girls blah blah blah......

 

When an entire Republic got destroyed overnight (with no backup government just in case) and the First Order overrunning everything to establish a new galactic order of tyranny after 30 years of supposed peace after the demise of the Sith and picking up where ROTJ, it's almost impossible to feel optimistic.

The Resistance didn't even last as long as the Rebel Alliance. Got wiped out in days.

For many, it is already too grim dark to begin with. And given how they seem to have no real plan other than coming up whatever comes to their mind, there's no guarantee of a happy ending of any kind. Especially for the Skywalkers who now lost Carrie Fisher.

Why do you think there was so much support for Rey Skywalker? Because many have already felt that Kylo Ren went too far to be accepted back in open arms in TFA. And now he has committed even far worse crimes and made himself an Emperor of the galaxy. That cannot be erased.

And I did not expect Luke to die. I thought he might live long enough to be Rey's teacher for months if not years to restart the Jedi Order. With him dead and Leia likely not returning, the Skywalkers have been reduced to a man that everyone wants to see dead.

Perhaps it's time, just like many of us here, to let go of any hope that Kylo Ren will be redeemed.

 

It's okay to keep all the hope about everything! Just saying.

 

Nah, I believe in hope.

 

I have hope that Rey gets to have purpose that isn't about whether or not Kylo Ren decides to stop being a garbage person that sucks at life and torments all of our heroes that don't spend their time slaughtering innocents.

I have hope that Rey gets the be the hero of this story without regard to Kylo Ren at all, and stops being a kicked puppy.

 

Tell me, how much crimes and horrid actions will it take to make you realize that Kylo Ren is beyond redemption?

It's just a question of curiosity. I have my limits and many others do.

 

I have hope that TLJ makes me care about Rey as much as you do, I like her character a good bit but she doesn't have the history that Luke, Leia and Han have that make Star Wars for me. I came into this new trilogy knowing it was going to be a hand off to new characters but I thought at least the Skywalker name would survive, I thought it was too powerful to die but I guess I was wrong.

 

Dude, you are asking the wrong question. My favorite character in DBZ is Vegeta- an arrogant, elitist soldier who has killed entire planet's for years. Causes the death of several major characters. Knocks up a woman and could care less about her or his son. Decides to make a deal with the devil for more power and murders half the audience of a major martial arts competition.

But he gets better, ending up a loving family man who would do anything for them. But still esentially being Vegeta, Prince of all Saiyans.

It is the journey.

Not all characters get it, but Kylo is hitting all those traits that eventual redeemed characters get. It is the difference between Vegeta and Freeza, Snape and Voldemort, Vader and the Emperor. It isn't about the actual crimes they commit- they are fictional characters with fictional crimes- it is about their motivations and struggles. No one wants to see characters struggle and fail and try to just kill them off while the heroes laugh over their graves. At the worst, you are getting a heartwrenching death scene where the hero cries over their body.

At best you get to see the incredible journey they go through, be able to look back and marvel at how far they came, and root for them to be happy.

 

Vegeta lives in a universe where destruction is a plenty and death is cheap (to the point it has become a parody unto itself). Vegetal had died numerous times, each of his death was implied to be his final until they bring him back for some more. Thus, he has infinite chances of redemption. It doesn't matter if the Earth gets destroyed or half of the universe's population gets killed. Whip up the Dragon Balls and wish everyone back to life. There are no consequences at all. In contrast, once Kylo Ren kills Han, that's it. Han Solo is dead. He ain't coming back from the dead. There are no Dragon Balls or Force Ghosts to bring him back. He's dead and that is consequential.

Actions have consequences. Star Wars is not a comic book. In comics, you can bring people back from the dead, reveal that their evilness is just brainwashing, or retcon lineages just to get back to the status quo without fuss. But you can't do the same in Star Wars. You can't bring back the Jedi who were killed in Order 66. You can't bring back Alderaan. You can't bring Padme back no matter how many times Anakin tries.

I know my universes. I know in the Pokémon universe, nobody since the day that Ash and Pikachu starts their adventure has aged. I know that in DC and Marvel, all myths are true. I know that in Harry Potter, you are born with magic and that you cannot bring back the dead. Peter Pettigrew has remorse for selling out James and Lily Potter to Voldemort and framing Sirus for it, but he never got redemption. He died unredeemed and unmourned despite owing a favor to Harry Potter for sparing his life.

So tell me again, what will it take for you to admit that Kylo Ren is beyond redemption? Because it's not worth two years of waiting and speculating of Kylo Ren turning good... and then find out that Rey kills him at the climax of IX and doesn't mourn for him because he remains unrepentant and a monster.