ST Kylo Ren and Rey in VIII and IX (See new guidelines on page 228)

It breaks my heart to say this because the Skywalker family is my favorite thing about Star Wars, but man do I agree. I can not believe I feel that way now.

 

Yeah if the choice is between no Skywalkers or Kylo Ren producing offspring (yuck!!!!), I’ll take total and complete Skywalker extinction. Thanks!

 

Just saw it again.

I think Kylo can still be redeemed... The Skywalker line has a dark side defect somewhere, and it doesn't seem like it's ever going away. But Adam Driver always plays him so hesitant and conflicted to me. I think his scenes with Rey mean something, and I quite enjoyed their chemistry together. I think they mean something to each other. I actually took my mom tonight, who can't name more than two SW characters (I dunno if she can name one,) and she got the impression that they were romantically linked. People don't like this, or agree with it, and that's fine. But all the showings I've been to, people have reacted to their presence together on screen and I think that's intentional. But Rey is strong and selfless and would end him for the good of the galaxy and I'm okay with that, too. As long as she loses a limb in the process ;-)

 

Okay I've actually seen the film and there's literally nothing romantic about Rey and Kylo save for the hand scene. Half the time they talk she's either crying or furious or both. And she very clearly rejects his advances. They're not going to go Reylo in IX, and god it'd be nice to read articles about the film that don't sexualize a clearly predatory relationship in which Kylo manipulates and emotionally abuses Rey.

 

Well yes, i agree on some of your points.

But I think rian's intentions are pretty clear when he added the shirtless scene. He was trying to set up a "boy-girl" mind frame, for the next "handtouching" scene. Without that scene, many people might still think they're related or platonic. I mean, why would he made that scene if rey-kylo are related/platonic?

But I totally agree that rey and kylo might not know what romance is. They might feel attracted to each other, but not knowing what that feeling is.

Especially kylo. You notice how he ran after rey in their first force bond scene? The girl just cut his face and humiliated him hours ago, but no sign of anger from him. He was just so attracted to her.

 

Sorry for the triple post. Bad connections.

 

This would partly save the trilogy for me and be a hell of a twist, thrown in something along the lines of Rey having to sacrifice herself to end Kylo, as you said it'd explain all the hinting and teasing (And confusion by Rian). Pretty good theory.

 

Some Rian Johnson quotes on them: https://imgur.com/a/wX4VE



From USA Today: One of the most intriguing, and potentially controversial, parts of director Rian Johnson's Star Wars: The Last Jedi is the simmering sexual and romantic tension between Rey (Daisy Ridley) and Kylo Ren (Adam Driver). Whether it's their intimate "Force-skype" sessions or the pair taking on Snoke's guard as a united front, the implication is that Reylo (the portmanteau online fans who "ship" the pair use for them) is definitely a thing, even if the only kiss in the movie was between Finn (John Boyega) and Rose (Kelly Marie Tran).

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2017/12/16/whats-going-kylo-ren-and-rey-last-jedi/956289001/


From Vanity Fair: But having seen the film with a full audience three times, I can say no moment draws more audible gasps and applause than when Adam Driver’s Kylo Ren and Daisy Ridley’s Rey whirl around in brief slow-motion, stand back-to-back, and take on a room of their shared enemies together. It’s the sexiest moment in a franchise that already featured a young Han Solo answering Leia’s earnest “I love you” with a smoldering “I know.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-reylo-do-kylo-and-rey-fall-in-love-sex



From Bustle: But now, it looks like we might be in for a new romance — that between two very unexpected characters. Yes, it seems possible that Kylo Ren is into Rey, because in The Last Jedi, the two share a moment that could definitely be seen as a hint at love to come.

https://www.bustle.com/p/is-kylo-ren-into-rey-in-the-last-jedi-hopefully-star-wars-isnt-repeating-one-creepy-old-tradition-7603507

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRF1Eq_W4AAWVbh.jpg:large

So sorry, it's very much a thing a lot of people read into; not that it's healthy. We can argue and disagree over it all we want, but we won't know for two years.

 

Following a rewatch, I sense that there's a tremendous amount of intimacy that develops between these two over the course of what we see but also what we don't see (it's implied that they have more conversations). I don't think it's necessarily romantic (or sexual). The link between them leaves them very exposed to each other, and therefore I buy a lot of what happens between them and Rey's earnestness. When Rey is mostly left alone and isolated from Luke (almost a continuation of her time on Jakku), her having this intimate link with another person, and someone who potentially understands her more than anyone else has, must be very appealing and nurturing. When she returns from the cave, it's Kylo she turns to describe what happened and how she's feeling. Not Luke, and not Chewie either. I find that intriguing, and I think Rey finding solace in such an unexpected place intrigues her as well.

 

I'm watching the movie later today.

One thing I find really interesting in all of this is the association between intimacy and romance.

I brought up the romantic friendship before because it's a relationship that is spiritual intimate (deep) on the level of "soulmates" without there being any sexual attraction. That is not to say there is not attraction.

Another way in which I can think of things is as a proto-romance - something that begins to evolve into a romance but is cut off when they are confronted with each other's opposing ideals and how those ideals haven't changed for either of them.

I was born in the US and all of my cultural influences strongly connect intimacy with romantic relationships, implying the deepest soul-connected relationships are romantic. This actually IMO isn't entirely true (this reflects cultural notions > reality IMO). We see it is true because we play out that cultural program in our lives and so it turns into this confirmation bias sort of thing.

I'm curious how I will see their relationship - that there is intimacy is without question, but will I also see sexual attraction, a proto-romance, the romantic friendship, simply a romance, something else? I don't know yet.

 

You're talking about twin souls.

Which is... a fated romance trope.

 

For me it feels more one sided. Ben seems to be the one with the attraction not Rey. Also I think there will be a redemption with Ben. That was set up with Luke's line.

 

For me it feels more one sided. Ben seems to be the one with the attraction not Rey. Also I think there will be a redemption with Ben. That was set up with Luke's line.

 

I think what I might like to see in IX is Rey going towards the dark and Kylo going towards the light and then they both don't want the other to go the other way and that's how the "balance" emerges.

*waits for the other monkeys to throw poo on her* (paranoia)

 

This is a thought I had after I saw the film. Rey failed to help Ben Solo come him because she did it for all the wrong reasons. (Rose gets it by the way, so does Luke.)

Hear me out.

She left Ahch-To misguided. She left thinking that Ben Solo would be an adequate substitute when Luke refused to join the war. She saw him as the Great Jedi Hope that would be this magical bit that would turn the tide. It was no different than her childlike magical thinking that would bring her parents back.
Luke knew that wouldn’t be a good enough reason for Ben to return home or to win a war. He was right that it wasn’t going to end the way she thought.

Ben Solo is a terrified boy hard wired by trauma and rejection. He was a boy who woke to the greatest Jedi ever a hair’s breadth from killing him. In that moment he felt that his family had thrown him away. Deep down inside he’s no different than Rey, except he’s at a place in life where he can verbalize that feeling.

Ben is looking desperately for someone not to throw him away. And when it happens (and he feels like Rey did when he woke alone) he channels that hurt into rage. He replaces that longing for belonging with a longing for power. Because you can’t be hurt if you’re the one doing the hurting.

So Rey will never be able to guide Ben home if she’s looking for him as a weapon. A weapon is something he becomes when he is in his fight or flight mode. It’s how he becomes a ball of jagged glass that no one wants to touch. He’ll hurt you first just so that you can’t hurt him.

Rather Ben will follow her anywhere and fully once he no longer needs to hide as a sharp and cutting weapon. He needs to know that he is safe, where he can be vulnerable and not be mocked like Snoke did to him for years. He needs to know that taking his glove off and reaching back won’t hurt. And he needs to know that when he wakes, someone will still be there.

Rey can find him. She can serve as his footlights home. But it can never be in the construct of being a weapon. Kylo is a weapon. She needs to lead the scared boy that still dreams that someone will love him without strings attached home. You can’t drag a scared creature out of the shadows. He will bite and snarl like a wounded animal he is.

Rather she needs to be patient and let him emerge from the shadows and encourage him on his journey. But that journey has to be his.

 

Well... I had the same ideas since 7.
The no-meeting was suspicious imo.
Even more because Poe and Rey share a lot
of lines and shoots. More than anyone
in that movie.
In this one.. You're right about the parallel
Poe/Kylo. But Poe and Rey arcs too parallel
each other.
And then in the finale, first Rey turns back at kylo,
them inside the Falcon she looks at Finn taking care
of Rose and only then there's the meeting scene.
Which is a weird, because every one of us just assumed
they've already met offscreen.

That said, I think it's too late to make this plot line
compelling. If this is the purpurse they've already screwed up.

It's like, if by chance this is the case we may add it to the list of complaints.

 

This is a great point. Ben's not ready to come back, and I think Leia was going to be the force to bring him back. In a lot of ways Rey was being like Luke in Esb.

 

This is a great point. Ben's not ready to come back, and I think Leia was going to be the force to bring him back. In a lot of ways Rey was being like Luke in Esb.

 

not sure if anyone suggested this already but am i the only one that thinks kylo was only pretending to be unconscious when hux found him? i mean he lied without hesitation that it was the girl who had killed snoke, like it was planned. i think he let rey go and then acted like he had been knocked out so that hux wouldn't realize his duplicity.

 

I thought that, at least until he ordered his men to fire on the MF. Presumably he could sense Rey was onboard when he said it. If Ren was still conflicted about Rey's safety, he could have let Hux give that particular order instead, just like he let his wingmen shoot Leia's ship when he couldn't.

 

Lmao yes she's miserable the whole movie and the first time she ever smiles is when she's shooting FO TIEs out of the sky. Then her first genuine moment of happiness is in Finn's embrace, and then looking around the MF and seeing what real love and caring and family looks like.

I'm glad RJ confirmed Kylo is indeed manipulating her. None of that "he makes her strong, he offers what she needs" nonsense. He literally spells it out that this was part of "weakening" Rey. He never had any intention of wavering from his position, but allowed Rey to believe that's what he was going to do. He doesn't want to know or accept the "real Rey", he wants to mold her in his twisted image.
I'm also suspecting that something similar went down with Luke's students. He convinced some to join him apparently, and the others who refused, he slaughtered.

 

Rey didn’t fail because saving “Ben” isn’t her job or place. “Ben” failed because he sucks at life.

 

Where did he say he was manipulating her?

From Bustle: “I don’t think he’s lying in that moment — I think he is like telling what he saw and I think that Rey seems like she believes it in that moment. So for me, I wrote it as an honest revelation and as an honest kind of reaction to it, as opposed to a move in a game of chess," he says, effectively knocking down the theory that Kylo was just saying anything he could think of in order to get her to join his side.

"Now as we know in these movies, you know the whole idea of a certain point of view comes into play and as you know I’m not involved in writing the next movie. JJ [Abrams] and Chris [Terrio] are writing it so, I want to make it clear I’m not sure how it’s going to get resolved," he adds. "For me the important part was saying it was an emotionally honest revelation, I feel like it, I don’t know, I believed it."

 

I think IrisBest is referring to this EW interview:

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/16/the-last-jedi-spoiler-rey-parents/2/

 

I figured it might be that one once I posted.” But then he also said: But for me, in that moment, Kylo believes it’s the truth,” Johnson added. “I don’t think he’s purely playing chess. I think that’s what he saw when they touched fingers and that’s what he believes. And when he tells her that in that moment, she believes it.”

And: “ "I think part of the fun is you know people having their interpretations of it and revisiting the movie and having arguments with their friends, I would absolutely not want to come in and play the math teacher and correct anyone," he says via phone less than 24 hours after The Last Jedi was released to the public”

It’s like was Palpatine really weak when he was begging to Anakin all over again! :lol:

 

I agree. I also don't see how kylo is gonna be redeemed after this. I certainly don't see a "scared little boy". I dunno if they were trying to get sympathy for kylo with that back story but it backfired. To learn that he straight up betrayed his family because......he chose to, does not cast him in a sympathetic light at all. His treatment of rey sort makes the "romance" thing hilarious at this point.