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ST Kylo Ren and Rey in VIII and IX (See new guidelines on page 228)

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by What Girl, May 14, 2016.

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  1. IncessantRamblings

    IncessantRamblings Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 20, 2016
    Yes, I know what I posted is correct, but Adam's statement re: terrorism wasn't in 'character' as Kylo's 'mentality', that was Adam's view of the story.

    That's fine that you feel what you've quoted & seen on screen supports your view, it's absolutely your right to interpret things the way you do (just as it's others right to see things the way they do). I never said anything about Kylo being conflicted or possible redemption cause that's off-topic and this isn't the thread for that anyway....

    But in response to your comment "if we can only go by what's on screen", the context of that quote from Pablo was when people were thinking JJ & Adam's quotes about Han & Leia meant they were neglectful parents, he isn't saying don't pay attention to the 'canon' books (hence him saying 'what's in the story' not just 'what's on the screen') he is saying don't make your mind up by going by comments from him, directors, actors, etc. because 'the story's not done'!

    And sure Snoke uses the stormtrooper program, but from what I understand, Hux Sr. (Rax?) had the child stealing operation going on when it was still the Empire and before Snoke was involved. Again, I never said you or anyone should feel sympathy for Kylo Ren, that's entirely up to you.
     
  2. ladygrey45

    ladygrey45 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2015
    if somehow rey does fall, I think if anything she will learn about stuff from kylo while still hating him.. or learn about the darkside on her own, I think whatever there bond is it will have to do with her past.
     
  3. ThreeDeathstickProblem

    ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Totally speculative, but Carrie's role growing over the course of the ST suggests to me something like this was intended. Perhaps not full redemption in the ST, but if they're going there eventually, the seeds should be planted by Han's gesture of mercy and Leia reaching out to Kylo either through the force or in person. Obviously with the latter they're now hamstrung a bit but I would hope they can still do something like that.

    But I do really want Driver to stick around. After TFA, Silence and Paterson I don't want to lose someone this good if the new generation is going to feature in more films.
     
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  4. hana_solo

    hana_solo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2016


    Nope, there's no past. Only the future. They never met before and Maz says "belonging you seek is not behind you, it is ahead." Rey's importance for the story lies in her future, whatever her role is in the grand scheme of things, not in her past. Maz pretty much says forget the past, move on. At that moment, Kylo was in her future (they were yet to meet physically), and so was Luke (ditto). Mind you, that doesn't take Rey Skywalker aka Rey the Luke's daughter off table if that is why some fans insist on the importance of the past despite what the movie tells us (forget the past, look to the future, belonging is in your future, ahead). Luke did not visit the Core Worlds were the Solos lived so if he had a daughter, Leia and Ben would not have met her.

    But that's all irrelevant cause, in the grand scheme of things, Rey's role is way more important than whether she is related to Skywalkers or not, because she can fulfill her destiny in either scenario. And that applies to Kylo. Their importance separately and together, their intertwined destines, will lead to something bigger than the question whether there's one or two young Skywalkers. So, now, what is their shared destiny? We know from JJ that they are the two awakenings, that TFA refers to both. What is the awakening? Sounds like a new thing and therefore they are the new kind, first of their kind. A bit like Dark Crystal's Gelfings, though those two were the last of their kind. So, like, reverse Gelfings.

    Why did the awakenings happen? Do they have something to do with Snoke? Why the awakenings weren't needed when Palaptine was in power? Does that mean Snoke is stronger? Does that mean that to bring the balance to the Force there must be Two (the Light awakening and the Dark awakening) instead of the Chosen One (who fulfilled the prophecy about destroying the Sith)? IMO, those are much more intriguing questions than circular discussion whether they duo is related or romance. Either scenario is secondary to the main one which is that they are the awakenings with a mysterious, important destiny.

    So they have a mysterious connection, lets see if we've already seen how it works. Could it be that one awakening prompted the other? Could it be that his probing of her mind prompted her ability to probe his mind? Could it be that when she tapped into the Force at the cliff, that made her stronger and him automatically weaker (heavy hemorrhaging aside)? There's certain detectable cause and effect reminiscent of:

    [​IMG]

    "Everything one of us does will have consequences for the other". This is from EU (KOTOR) so it isn't canon but it sounds eerily similar to cause/effect connection between Rey and Kylo in TFA. Plus, "intertwined destinies" is in the official Databank:

    [​IMG]

    It's all very interesting and building up to something big. I've no doubt that the connection is through the Force and that the intertwined destiny has to do with the balance of the Force. perhaps their combined abilities are needed. We'll see.

    But yes, the future is the answer.
     
  5. IMightRegretThisUsername

    IMightRegretThisUsername Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2016
    woohoo! aspects of KOTOR (seemingly) being canonized!! The Force has already done this with Anakin, and it's essentially the story of the saga. A dark sider was so dangerous(Sidious) that the Force itself needed to step in and literally create a person extremely strong in the Force. Luke then became that counter to Vader when he was throwing the balance. Now, Luke is "inactive" and the strongest force user is a Skywalker whom has aligned himself with the dark side. Once again an equal counter has to be provided in order to stop this unchallenged threat. It seems like Rey will be the counterweight for all of Kylo's actions.
     
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  6. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    not just kylo, but perhaps snoke...
     
  7. hana_solo

    hana_solo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2016


    This. It wouldn't make sense to have Rey awaken in the Force only to be countered by Kylo's awakening in the Dark side so that they could battle it out while Snoke is twirling his mustache. I mean, it's possible that's what happened originally but instead of destroying each other, the awakenings may join forces.

    But I agree with IMightRegretThisUsername too in that there's obviously some countering going on throughout the Saga.
     
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  8. IMightRegretThisUsername

    IMightRegretThisUsername Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 19, 2016
    I agree with both of you. Especially since Snoke appears to be from the origin/source of the dark side. He would not be unaffected by this counter relationship.
     
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  9. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2014
    some fanart I guess. :rolleyes: first pic is ok, but 2nd one....[face_sick]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. IncessantRamblings

    IncessantRamblings Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 20, 2016
    All I see is black x's? :confused:
     
  11. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 11, 2014
    No, I'm really not. The point is, they ALL had crap lives, but two of them CHOSE to be good people, whereas one CHOSE to become a mass-murderer and fascist, and then murder his own dad who was just trying to help him. And people can go "but, but Snoke was in his head," I don't care. He HAD people that he could have turned to for help, and STILL made the wrong choices. Rey and Finn had nobody to turn to, and yet they didn't go down that path.

    It's really simple, I don't find the "Snoke was talking to him" to be anywhere near a good-enough excuse. It's not a rant, I'm not angry. It's simply a statement of fact. I have no reason to feel sorry for or sympathize with the mass-murderer daddy-killing jerk, and I have no sympathy for him. Am barring some REALLY convincing explanation, I will continue to have no sympathy for him. It's that simple.
     
  12. Korr Sella

    Korr Sella Jedi Knight star 1

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    Aug 1, 2016
    Kylo at five years old: Hey, Mom, I've got this really creepy dude in my head telling me to do bad stuff and it's really scaring me.

    Leia *freaking out*: Okay, let's go see Uncle Luke and he'll teach you how to block it. Just remember, no one can make you do anything you don't want to.

    Kylo: You're right, I love you Mom.

    Problem solved.
     
  13. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Haha, kids and their invisible friends...
     
  14. IMightRegretThisUsername

    IMightRegretThisUsername Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 19, 2016
    the content of individual threads merge way too easily.
     
  15. Darth Gummybear

    Darth Gummybear Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 15, 2016
    Except that would not make for much of a story...
     
  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    It would make sense and not be drama for drama's sake. Sounds like a great life story.

    I think the nature of life, complicated as it may be, makes for a great story on its own, without inserting unnecessary drama into it just to make a longer story.

    When I did some writing and had paired up a couple of characters, I was told by one reader that I should throw in a third character into the pairing, a love triangle or potential love triangle scenario, to "create some tension." My response was, um, no. The relationship already had other dynamics beyond the sunshine-and-roses happily-ever-after scenario, dynamics that a lot of couples have. I was not going to throw in a potential love triangle (which is one of the stupidest tropes in storytelling anyway--why would one person pit two people who like him/her against each other, and why would a person chase after someone who is already involved with someone else?) just to manufacture tension for the hell of it.
     
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  17. Korr Sella

    Korr Sella Jedi Knight star 1

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    Aug 1, 2016

    No, but neither is "he had no choice! He was corrupted from the WOMB!"
     
  18. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    if something is in your mind interfering with your very thoughts, it's going to be difficult to sort out what is you and what is not you. what is in your mind may not feel separate like an imaginary friend, but it may feel as though it's actually *you*. it's starting to look like it took leia longer than i initially would have expected to sort this out, and that's without the presence being in her mind interfering with her thoughts, feelings, and perceptions. if it's in your consciousness itself, your task is much more difficult--especially if it *always* was, in which case as long as you remember it will have felt like it was part of you (or you, yourself). you will never have known anything different. you will never have known (lasting) peace.
     
  19. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 2, 2016
    Wait. What if Snoke IS the womb?
     
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  20. Korr Sella

    Korr Sella Jedi Knight star 1

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    Aug 1, 2016
    Because we have no real life frame of reference for "dark side entity in your mind" it's all speculation how much interference there actually was, if any at all.

    Before anyone suggests it I'd rather not draw any mental illness parallels to this because that seems distasteful.
     
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  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Oh hell.
     
  22. Darth Gummybear

    Darth Gummybear Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 15, 2016
    My point was that scenario would not make for much of a story in the ST's context. There would likely not even be a Kylo Ren in that scenario when the story writers chose to create a story where Ben Solo became Kylo Ren.

    If Ben felt a dark presence in utero, that would not be drama for drama's sake if it tied directly into how he eventually became Kylo Ren.
     
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  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    And mine was that there are other ways for him to become Kylo Ren. It does not have to be a scenario that could easily be solved by his going to his loving parents for help.

    I don't like the "dark presence in utero" scenario for reasons beyond that, as I said earlier, and that is also not how I read the Empire's End scene.
     
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  24. Darth Gummybear

    Darth Gummybear Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 15, 2016
    Well, it does not have to be one extreme or the other. I believe it is likely to be a combination of factors including Snoke's influence and Kylo's choices. Also, pethaps other things we do not know of yet.
     
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  25. ThreeDeathstickProblem

    ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost star 5

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    Sep 25, 2014
    Generally speaking, if you're not open to seeing Kylo in less than purely evil terms I'm not sure what discussion there is to have. And I have to wonder why you're in a thread involving Kylo's character arc in the sequels, if you are totally disinterested in the character beyond his being a force of pure antagonism. Like, what is there to discuss about his interactions with Rey or even Luke? The decibel level at which he's yells at them? Even Vader began to show shades of "nuance" and "humanity" as his story progressed, to quote the guy who is actually playing Kylo Ren.

    Not to get meta, but a lot of this forum has become like this: every thread fills with comments about "unless X happens or Y does not happen, I don't care."
    • Unless Rey is the daughter of _____, I'll be disappointed.
    • I hate Kylo's character and Adam's performance and I just wish he'd die and be replaced with someone more Vader-y.
    • If Finn isn't a Jedi I'll not watch Episode IX.
    • If Rey struggles with the dark side or does anything remotely less than good it'll ruin her character.
    • I wish ___ and ____ characters would get together and have a romance or I'll be disappointed in the trilogy.
    Hyperbolic paraphrasing, but it gets to the spirit of it.

    It's like a lot of the people who had major issues with or concerns about TFA and where the ST should go from here went home and decided write out the next two installments their heads. And God help the actual films if any part doesn't fit it.
     
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