ST Kylo Ren and Rey in VIII and IX (See new guidelines on page 228)

At least the image is more on topic than 17 of the past 20 posts

 

True, those huts don't seem made for tall people, so it's a big concern. He'll have to figure out how to fit in one or at least in the door

 

Maybe its part of the Jedi trials to build a hut.

 

That would be awesome if they had to use telekinesis to build a hut.

 

Step one, work together to build a hut - Team building methods

 

Yeah, as much as I want Ben Solo to be fully back in the light (and for a long time, it was my hope/head canon that the story would go in this direction) I am starting to think he will more likely end up somewhere in the middle, both light and dark.

He came from a light background, and got pulled into the darkness... after which he feels torn apart because there is this pull on both sides. I think it's becoming apparent that being 100% light isn't the answer, either. He is equal parts of both.

So, Adam's comments about nuance and ambiguity, and Kylo's humanity being explored in the next film, might just very well be about the character finding someplace in the center, with Rey guiding him. I'm very intrigued about where all this could possibly be going.

 

I also think that he will be more balanced. Jung's concept of shadow would play into this as well. By accepting his inner light and darkness, he will become whole at last. Then, together with Rey, they will be the first of the "new" Jedi.

 

Well, there will still be the KoR with Kylo for probably the first half of the Ahch-To Plot and after they are gone I assume Kylo still to be unpredictable, even if he should agree to talk with Luke and Rey about "to be dark side or not to be darkside". Luke and Rey will have a lot of problems with him and how to deal with him now nevertheless. Can they ever trust him, should they even hear what he has to say, his opinion on dark and light side? Or is he somebody who just has to be killed, because for him no hope remains? Kylo will definitely cause a lot of trouble for Luke and Rey, even when he is acting now "full loser" and agrees to talk to his uncle and the girl.
Simply because he is unpredictable and noone can really say what he chooses to do next.
That's really dangerous.

 

in this i think back to the times that kylo ren probably feels "strong." in the beginning of TFA i think he felt "strong" up until the point where he noticed finn who hadn't followed orders and participated in the mass-killing. this is all just my interpretation of course, but i think what was going on there is that the fading conflict inside finn, the fear and the pain, is what kylo sensed... and he recognized these feelings because they are how he had felt when he became a killer... and in this he feels compassion for finn, but at the same time he hates himself for feeling it... so he stares at him caught in his own conflict between the light and dark, before moving on. originally i read the scene where he talks with vader's helmet would follow this, in which he would plead with vader to show him the darkness again because the light is pulling him away into what he feels is "weakness."

when snoke tasks him again with killing his father, he says that han means nothing to him, but he can't entirely convince himself. and in the final cut after this he goes back to confide in vader's helmet, essentially begging vader for the strength to do what he fears he cannot. it's his twisted mind that sees compassion as a weakness in which he loses the ability to "do the right thing." and we don't know why his mind is so twisted yet where everything that most people see as wrong, is seen as right; and everything most people see as right, is seen as wrong. i think TLJ will provide answers there.

i think that when kylo ren is fully in the dark side (like in the very beginning of the movie before he sees finn--though there was also a pause before he said "kill them all"), he feels like he is strong enough finally, that there's clear conviction and purpose, and that he can go on... i think he is trying to tune himself more and more to that feeling of strength, but it keeps slipping from him because the light is relentless. and when he's "safe" in the dark side, all the pain that comes with killing people and with his choices, it all goes away. he has a clear path, free of the torment of what he's done or will do.

so he thinks that killing han will finally destroy what's left of the light, and there won't be anymore of that pain... but the opposite occurs, and the pain is even worse after. because once again, he's not darth vader (but an opposite in a lot of ways). after vader thought he'd killed padme, i think that firmly cemented him on the dark side. but after kylo kills his father, the conflict only screams louder inside him in response.

and maybe it's because this story is about finding balance in emotional and moral ambiguity. how to determine right from wrong when faced with complexity. if that's the case, it's possible that rey (as the hero) will face some of the same conflicts kylo did as the story goes on. she'll be pulled by the dark, even though she recoils from it (just as he is pulled by the light, which he recoils from). and maybe she'll want to go full light, but something of the dark side keeps pulling at her. and so she'll have to find a way to balance it--otherwise the conflict inside her will grow stronger and stronger until she becomes an utter mess like kylo is.

this is all coming from a history of the jedi and the sith--and what we see is that they annihilated each other. for 1000 years the jedi ruled after having destroyed the sith, but the rule of two enabled the sith to survive in the shadows, plotting their revenge. and finally palpatine was able to enact that revenge. come the end of this conflict the only one left (sw rebels notwithstanding) is luke: last force user standing.

is there another way other than annihilation or two opposing ideologies that increasingly polarize against the other until "neither can exist while the other survives"?

for rey, kylo and luke: can they find a way not to repeat the past, iow.

 

Great post, that's totally my thoughts

 

I expect Kylo to come to Ahch-to as a pumped up Dark Sider. That's gonna crash and burn after the fight when he is forced to spend time with Rey and Luke, vent out some frustrations, give in to his grief, etc. Characters never stay the same after they are taken out of their comfort zone and forced to face some hard truth. In his case, Ahch-to is not a comfort zone. It isn't his turf, he's outnumbered (Luke, Rey, Chewie and the birds), Snoke is far away and possibly cannot penetrate the Force "shield" of the planet to spread his influence, his status may be a prisoner, etc. Point is, we don't have spoilers beyond the fight, save the exploding hut one (which seems plausible), but narrative logic suggests that the character will have a development so that he won't be the same at the end of the movie.

 

yeah I know But always Kylo here and Kylo there, in this thread.

 

They are not the chosen ones, they cannot balance the thread. They are consumed by attachment of one man, this is why they fail. and fail badly.

 

That tends to happen when one character has a solid background for discussion while the other is a blank slate thanks to unnecessary Mystery Box. :shrug:

 

That would be absolutely beautiful.

 

This. There will be so many fights and drama on Ahch-To, probably just verbal in the second half of the movie, but hey, this is gonna be really intense. So we should not worry that it will be lame cause no real villain around to fight. With Kylo as prisoner for example, it will be absolutely great and interesting to watch how the three deal with each other.

 

Adam described the script as being very tight, which makes me think there'll be a lot going on in practically every minute. I think it'll be very intense and interesting!

 

ManWithoutAStar

of that I'm certain. It's been "prophesised" in TFA in several places and their story is going in that direction. Why else they are going to be on Ahch-to and not some other characters or combination of? The Force is calling to them. TFA really builds up to their meeting and JJ shoots all those scenes to really pop up because they are so important.

 

Yes! With the 3 of them being stranded on the Island and forced to cooperate, while dealing with serious moral and philosophical dilemas...I cannot wait for this

 

before Kylo is killed off at the end and thrown down a cliff by Rey or Luke.

 

Good thing you are not in the charge of the story then

 

Yeah, that would be a really boring trilogy. We already had "Rey defeats Kylo". Since they got that out of the way early on, I doubt that subject will be revisited.

or when we try to bring up Rey, we get dogpiled on ZOMG you aren't allowed to talk about them in the same sentence! (See Chorus and his post about three pages back.)

So, let's talk about Rey.

She's his mirrored image. I've long thought TFA painted her uber optimistic and empathetic in what could be a bait and switch when she is tempted by the dark and perhaps falling briefly.

Wouldn't that be a fun little shocker.

And in that circumstance, there is only one person in this saga that knows what Snoke can do to an apprentice, and how much that probably sucks dead toads through a straw. Have a feeling that that the one person would be the only person to get past the barriers in the Force to urge Rey to return.

And also, can we dispense with the BS "consumed by the attachment of one man". Seriously,that sexist tripe got old about three pages back. KNOCK IT OFF.

 

I'm super interested to hear what John Williams score does with their scenes. Or rather, how Rian will edit them to Williams score because that's apparently what he's doing, editing to the score rather than inserting the score into already edited scenes.