ST Kylo Ren's True Intentions and Alternative Theory

After seeing TFA three times now I wanted to submit an alternative theory to the typical ideas being thrown around. I apologize if this has been brought up in some other way in a different forum and I am sorry for the length. So here goes:

What if Kylo Ren is actually fighting for the light side? And that he has joined the dark side in order to destroy it? I will give the reasons why this could be true and then discuss the hidden back story that would back it up.

#1 – He wants to finish what his grandfather (Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker) started. This could obviously mean one of two things. That Kylo believes that Vader was and is the most powerful user of the dark side and he wants to finish destroying the Jedi for good. However, what if Kylo actually believes that Anakin was the chosen one, created to bring balance to the force, and destroy the Sith? At the end of ROTJ we are to believe that the Emperor was killed by Vader. Now that Supreme Leader Snoke is in the picture, is he a Emperor Palpatine clone, Darth Plagueis, or some other ancient dark side user? I am not debating who Snoke is at this time (leaning more towards Darth Plagueis) because whomever he is Kylo knows that he must be destroyed. He meditates and seeks guidance with Vader/Anakin to gain strength in the dark side and to control his struggle that the light side has on him. If Kylo has infiltrated the First Order with the goal of destroying Snoke then he must do everything he can to keep Snoke from discovering his true intentions.

#2 – He knows he has to kill a loved one in order to become truly Sith. He is “ripped apart” by this thought and knows he cannot do it without help. Thus, he asks his father, Han Solo, to help him. “I know what I have to do but I don’t know if I can do it. Will you help me?” I believe Han knew he was going to die in some regard. Whether that is that he knew Kylo had to kill a loved one so he sacrificed himself is yet to be unseen. But it would make sense because Han does love him and even though we are to believe that their history is rocky he would still do anything and everything to help his son.

#3 – Kylo Ren is incredibly strong with the force. Of course he is. He has Skywalker blood in him. There have been many discussions as to why Kylo Ren was “beaten” by Finn and Rey during the lightsaber battle. And there are numerous factors that played into the results of that battle: 1) He was shot by Chewie’s crossbow. That thing was destroying Stormtroopers all throughout the movie. It was made a point to the audience of the power it can dish out. He was shot and simply knocked to his knees. The amount of force control it would take to even stand up and walk away much less get into a lightsaber battle is astonishing. 2) He had just killed his father. On top of being physically hurt he is emotionally exhausted from killing Han. 3) Kylo has not finished his training. Despite his strength from everything that has happened he still is not as strong as he will be. 4) Finn is a Stormtrooper. Can we not assume that he has had basic hand to hand combat training? I think it is safe to say that when put into a situation of life and death, handed a sword (lightsaber) you will know the basic principles of what to do. Plus, TR-8R (Stormtrooper who uses the “Sun Staff” in the lightsaber fight) recognizes Finn. Why would this Stormtrooper not just use a blaster to kill Finn? I think it’s because he actually knows Finn and took his desertion from the First Order personally. Obviously, it appears that the First Order has developed these special weapons to defend against lightsabers. So it is safe to assume that these troopers have had advanced training using the “sun staff” and would explain why Finn seems at ease while using the lightsaber and was able to land a few scratches with the saber on Kylo during the fight. 5) Rey plays defensive for most of the dual. We know she is good at protecting herself and survival. She is skilled with her staff and it is not until the “force awakens” in her until she goes on the attack. So after being shot by Chewie’s crossbow, killing his father, needing to complete his training, scratched up by Finn, and then defending against someone who has just unlocked force abilities it is absolutely plausible that Rey would come out on top.

So would Kylo have actually killed Rey if he had not been injured? I don’t think so. Obviously, he would not have let himself be killed but he was holding back to a degree when he was fighting her. He even asked Rey to join him and that she did not understand the powers of the force yet. At that point, the force takes control of Rey and Kylo is forced to go on the defensive. I say all this because it gives us a glimpse of how strong Kylo Ren will become and why it is validated that he could join the dark side in order to destroy it.

Here is my theory on the hidden back story that confirms this. It all starts with Luke Skywalker. He has created the new jedi academy and is training a new generation of Jedi. I think he sensed that the dark side was returning and that Snoke was the source and that somewhere along the way realized that in order to destroy the dark side, one must join the dark side. Luke saw this with his father when Vader destroyed the Emperor. You must destroy it from within. And in order to successfully destroy it from within he needed a young Jedi strong enough to turn to the dark side but still have enough “good” in them to not completely turn away from the light side. Thus, he senses that his nephew Ben Solo (Kylo Ren) is strong enough for this endeavor. Luke explains the true events of Vader destroying the Emperor to Ben/Kylo. So the two of them create a plan to get Ben noticed by Snoke enough to accept him and begin his path down the dark side.

You may be asking yourself if Kylo is truly fighting for the light side then how can he stand by and watch planets get destroyed by Starkiller or let the First Order lay waste to anyone and everyone they wish? Remember what Darth Vader said in ANH, “The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force”. It is the same reason why Luke is in hiding. Obviously, Luke knows what is going on but also knows that there is a bigger picture and that sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

So who is Rey, why is she important, and does Kylo know her? It’s been pretty much narrowed down that Rey needs to be either the daughter of Luke Skywalker or the daughter of Leia & Han Solo. Either way, this makes Rey is a Skywalker. Now it’s just a matter of if Rey and Kylo are cousins or siblings. Yes, she could be a Kenobi or a random but let’s be honest; Star Wars is about the Skywalkers. My theory is interchangeable whether she is Luke’s daughter or Leia’s daughter. She was born after Ben Solo (Kylo Ren) and the events of Kylo joining Snoke and the First Order. She was hidden on Jakku because of her importance and to keep her hidden from Kylo/Snoke/First Order until she was ready. Ready to find Luke and complete her training, then join Ben Solo/Kylo Ren to defeat Supreme Leader Snoke.

The Light Side (Rey) and the Dark Side (Kylo) join focres to defeat the all-powerful evil force in the universe, Darth Plagueis.

Sister and Brother / Cousin and Cousin / Blood and Blood / Both descendants of Anakin Skywalker join forces to defeat the all-powerful evil force in the universe, Darth Plagueis.


Darth Plagueis whom has been behind the scenes in every movie, waiting for the perfect time to return after his “murder” from Palpatine/Sidious.

 

No.

He had an entire village executed.

 

Of course he did. He has no other choice. Look at the bigger picture. If Plagueis has returned (or some other ancient evil force) then Kylo must do anything and everything necassary to play that part. One village, 10 villages, and even planets destroyed is a terrible price to pay but a necassary part when it comes to the entire universe. Those are simply drops in the bucket compared to Snoke becoming truly powerful.

 

Im not convinced Snoke is the big bad of the ST

 

interesting perspective. reminds me of Luke in Dark Empire. i think it won't play out this way, though.

 

What could possibly be necessary about killing everyone in a village on a lowly planet like Jakku?

 

It's what is expected of him. First Order are religious fanatics after all. Not killing them would be a red flag to Snoke. Not saying the theory above is true, just giving a reason why he gave that order.

 

That is definitely a possibility. Snoke could very well be a puppet or even an illusion created by Plageuis or this ancient evil force. Either way, this evil force has been around for a very long time which is why Kylo's light saber looks so archaic compared to the newer light sabers of the Jedi Order, etc.

 

The First Order's purpose is to commit galactic genocide? News to me.

 

Yes. We are on the same page.. I feel this to be true. They made to much of a point to "point out" his conflict with the light side almost screeming that he is good.

 

Exacatly Doc10. We know the SW movies are rhythmic. They mirror and flow together. Kylo Ren will have to fall very far into the dark side to accomplish his task set out by Luke. We even discover from Rey that he is fearful that he will never be as strong as Darth Vader. I think that is something Kylo will absolutely struggle with in the upcoming films. Can he be as strong as Vader and destroy the dark side? Will this fear be his downfall or will he harness that fear and control it?

 

I'd love this theory... I must remain sceptical though...

 

Yes, I wanted to discuss the possibility of Kylo being an agent of light, even if it was his first goal, then corrupted. I just posted about this in another thread and I wanted to hear some thoughts. It's somewhat plausible, somewhat absurd. Perhaps the truth is a mid ground, say he started with good intentions then was corrupted?


Some evidence that would support this theory:

1. Kylo Ren struggles because Snoke senses his light side.
2. Kylo does not harm or hurt Poe. Why keep him alive and unharmed after he got the information he needed?
3. Kylo does not support the idea of using Starkiller to destroy the Resistance. In fact, he argues against it, claiming he would still bring the droid, but Snoke prefers to listen to Hux.
4. Kylo does not hurt his subordinates, he only trashes rooms.
5.In the novel, he does not want the trooper who let Ray escape to be tortured. He tells people just to keep interrogating him (according to the novel).
6. In the forceback scene, it looks like he kills someone to protect Rey. (Not confirmed, but still)
7. Near Maz castle, it is his fault BB 8 is not found. Perhaps it was on purpose?
8. He asks help for his father, and does not seem to enjoy killing Han.
9. He doesn’t kill Finn or Rey. (Although, yes, he does hurt Finn)
10. Minor, really, but, on the TFA poster, he has a symbol of the rebellion and resistance on his coat foldings. (Maybe it has a meaning)
11. Minor again: his chosen name. Ren is a title. But why Kylo? SKYwalker SoLO. A little odd for someone who’s denying part of his family, especially the Solo one. Why chose a name that rhymes with Solo?
Seen from this perspective, his dialogue with his father makes a lot more sense. Also, doesn’t he know his grandpa turned? Well, maybe he does! Why does he asks for help? Because he’s doing a very hard job. Also, it that is the case, he would probably not be under anyone’s orders but his own, or perhaps Luke’s. His struggle is not to fight back the light, but to conceal it enough that Snoke does not see through him.

Now, some evidence against the theory:
1. He orders the troopers to kill the villagers in Jakku. (Perhaps he was only playing his part, but still…)
2. He is worried that Rey might escape, and that her force powers are growing fast. Why should he be worried? Unless, perhaps, he really wants to have her as an ally. Could be.
3. He is truly mad at Finn. Okay, it could be because Finn is an obstacle in turning Rey. (assuming here he wants an ally)
4. He kills Lor San Tekka in cold blood. Could it be because Tekka knows Luke’s location, and Kylo doesn’t want Luke to be found? Could it be to display his power? I don’t know, I’m not sure that death was necessary. On the other hand, from the point of view of the first order, killing San Tekka is a very stupid idea. Why not torture him or force the map out of him? Perhaps Kylo had no choice.

 

I do not think the First Order's main purpose is galactic genocide. But they will do whatever they need to do to accomplish their goals. Re-read what was originally in the post in case it was missed. "You may be asking yourself if Kylo is truly fighting for the light side then how can he stand by and watch planets get destroyed by Starkiller or let the First Order lay waste to anyone and everyone they wish? Remember what Darth Vader said in ANH, “The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force”. It is the same reason why Luke is in hiding. Obviously, Luke knows what is going on but also knows that there is a bigger picture and that sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

 

Some very good points. Thanks for your input. I definitely think he is trying to conceal the light side in him and not turn away from it completely. But he will struggle with it since it must be concealed so he does not completely turn to the dark side.
1. Yes, he does give the order to kill the villagers in Jakku. Maybe this is customary for the First Order, leave no witnesses or survivors. If Kylo is to be successful in infiltrating the dark side he must do what is expected from the First Order.
2. I think as far as Kylo knows right now is that Rey possess a threat to his mission. She obviously does not know what is going on or his plans to all he can do is try to control the situation as best as he can.
3. He is absolutely mad at Finn for being a "traitor" to the First Order. I think it throws a wrench in his plans. How does he look in the eyes to the First Order and Snoke if Stormtroopers are going AWOL? Again, he has to play the part. He has to become the part.
4. Killing Tekka was very brutal. I think you are right that he knew Luke's location. And if tortured by the First Order thus revealing his location would have been detrimental. Killing Tekka may have been a choice that had to be done.

 

I don't see any scenario where Luke does this to his nephew. Snoke has been in Ben's head from an extremely young age. He was sent to Luke to calm his anger and Vader like tendencies. I don't see anyway this is possible.

 

Yes, 1. in terms of killing the villagers, perhaps that's what is expected of him. Perhaps he can't just say: "let them go" and then report that to Snoke, so it's fine if he's just pretending/infiltrating the dark side.

2. With Rey... I don't know, lots of things, hard to argue either way.

3. He is genuinely mad at Finn. On the other hand, in Jakku, he seemed to notice Finn, and didn't do anything. He noticed so much that, by the time Hux announced a traitor, Kylo knew his name. Why didn't he do anything before?Stormtroopers going AWOL I don't think is a problem for Kylo, it might even be good, because it shows Hux as incompetent. Kylo is not in the best mental state after having killed Han, but why is he redirecting the anger towards Finn?

Those are problems to the theory that Kylo could be an agent of light. I am not sure Luke would agree with that, though, and I tend to think that it's more likely that Kylo started with good intentions until the dark side corrupted him. I'm not sure if Rey and Kylo are related either.

 

The villagers were hiding the map. To the First Order that is a crime that should be handled one way. Death by execution.

Again it expected of Kylo to say "kill all the traitors". I really don't know why this is controversial given the nature of the First Order. It isn't very different then Vader killing everyone on board Leia's ship at the beginning of ANH. Kylo letting a few live would made the other First Order leaders go "wtf"!

 

If you're destroying planets because you can't think of any other way to stop a great evil....the fight has already been heavily lost. It's like if the US nuked the entire Middle East and half of Africa right now in order to get rid of terror threats. Sane person wouldn't do that.

 

I can understand what you are talking about but what else would you have done? There are billions upon billions of planets and galaxies. Simply put, if you want to make an omelette you have to break some eggs. Remember who killed the Emperor? Not Luke, Obi-wan, or even Yoda. It was Darth Vader. A Sith Lord who by the grace and love for his son destroyed the Emperor. Luke would have easily been destroyed by the Emperor if Vader had not intervened. Now Luke is in hiding waiting until the right moment all the while where planets are being destroyed. He is still just one man and knows a thought out strategic plan has to be in place in order for the light side to prevail. Kylo Ren is one man and knows this too. Why does it only take two dark side users to rule the galaxy and a plethora of Jedi to maintain it? Luke can't do it on his own, Kylo can't do it on his own, and now Rey will be able to fight for the light with them. It takes time and extreme sacrifice. No one said it would be easy or pretty.