Kyp Durron: Hero or Villain

I put hero. I think that Kyp Durron is doing the right thing for the galaxy. I think the problem a lot of fans have with him is that Kyp dares go against Luke. Kyp is on a different side philosophically than Luke is but there is a middle ground they meet at. They want to see the Vong gone. They want to save lives. Kyp does it his own way. It's different than Luke's but that doesnt make it bad.

 

I put hero. I think that Kyp Durron is doing the right thing for the galaxy. I think the problem a lot of fans have with him is that Kyp dares go against Luke. Kyp is on a different side philosophically than Luke is but there is a middle ground they meet at. They want to see the Vong gone. They want to save lives. Kyp does it his own way. It's different than Luke's but that doesnt make it bad.

Agreed.


~Cowboy

 

Kyp is a terrorist preying on civilians.

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after Carida because of his relative youth and possesion by a Sith Lord. However he has no excuses now.

Villain.

 

whered he kill civvies?

Total hero

 

There are no Yuuzhan Vong civilians. They all live to suffer and die for Yun-Yuuzhan.

 

Kyp will always be my hero...

 

When did he become your hero? I liked him in JAT until he turned to the dark side and to be honest I never trusted him after that.. I was anti-Kyp until VERY recently. I realized that he wasnt doing this out of some repressed Dark Side impulses or out of hatred for Luke and the NR or just for his own agrandizement. This is a part of his penance for Carida and that he is trying to save lives and he's doing it his own way.

He is as much a rebel hero is as Luke was. Yes he told a lie. He told the Rogues that the Vong were building a super weapon instead of a worldship. So what? That world ship would have been full of Vong. Warriors. Children? Yes. But those children are warriors in training. Shapers? Yes, Shapers who create horrible weapons that will be used to kill New Republic civilians and soldiers and Jedi. Kyp took the fight to the Vong and yes he had to get his hands dirty to do it.

Unlike Jacen our Kyp knows that there is a right and a wrong in the universe and they arent that hard to tell apart. The Vong and their action are wrong. Fighting them is right. Allowing evil to go unfought is wrong.

Worse than just wrong. Its suicidal. No. Genocidal.

 

"I wanted to hit them where they live, to let them know their civilians aren't sacrosanct if ours aren't." -Kyp Durron, Rebirth

When he destroyed that large worldship in Rebirth he knew full well that the majority of the YV on their dying worldships would soon be dying since they then have no where to go.

"There are no Yuuzhan Vong civilians. They all live to suffer and die for Yun-Yuuzhan."

Incorrect. In Rebirth a Shamed One on the YV ship Anakin/Corran/Tahiri took over willfully assisted the jedi in their attempt to defeat a YV armada entering the system. They do not all die for Yun-Yuuzhan or that would not have happened.

As for there being no civilians, I also disagree on that count. The YV on those dying worldships have barely managed to limp into the GFFA and are now stranded in the middle of nowhere and beginning to die of vacuum or starvation. They have most likely played no part whatsoever in this war. That's why I would class them as civilians, and apparently Kyp agrees from his quote earlier. Then you must also consider the number of YV children on those worldships.


I don't condone the willful killing of civilians under any circumstances. And that's why I class Kyp Durron as a villain.

 

I think he's a little of both.

 

Kettch, the Vong could very easily drop the civvies off on a planet they took. Kyp blew up an unmanned Worldship, which helped the war effort. I mean, lets be picky. When Luke fought Thrawn's forces, some innocents COULD have been killed by the Imps in retalition. Should he not have done that either?

 

"Now they have to choose between letting their children die in space or expending military resources to move them to conquered planets." -Kyp Durron, Rebirth

Unless Kyp is a complete idiot then he would know that the YV will not sacrifice military resources in saving those Yuuzhan Vong. They are the most worthless YV of them all(being on the worst worldships) and the YV higher ups wouldn't mind sacrificing them all.

He knew his actions would result in the deaths of many civilians and he went threw with it. Not only did he do that but he also lied and coerced others to take part in that evil act under false pretenses with him.


And to answer the second part of your post: Luke in no way knew that the Imps would retaliate and kill civilians due to his actions. Kyp knows those civilians will die.


And I also don't quite understand how blowing up a very large home helps the NR in their war effort.

 

two for me

1- War efforts might be sidetracked for this. Hence, big delay.

2- More Worldships = more Vong moving round to vital areas of the galaxy = more warriors in the main battlezones.


And Luke would know they would. The Imps blew a planet up before. Think they are all suddenly nice people?

 

Civilians. Yuuzhan Vong. I dont buy it. Other than Shamed Ones I dont recall ever seeing any form of civilian at all in this series.

To be honest I dont even think The Shamed Ones even really count as civilians. Until recently they have been serving the Vong very willingly in hopes of being redeemed and being un-shamed so that they can join their betters in smashing the infidels. No doubt a lot of Shamed Ones would still be willing to rip out an infidels throat rather than look at them.

As for children.. I doubt they're civilians either. I'm sure they're conditioned in the ways of combat and shaping at a young age and are being taught of course to kill all infidels.

It seems to me that all Yuuzhan Vong citizens seem to contribute in some way to the war effort against the NR.

And please note that it is an unprovoked war agains the NR. The Yuuzhan Vong chose to attack the New Republic. Chose to murder civilians and military alike. And chose to bring 'civilians' if they exist into war zones.

If the Vong are willing to let their 'civilians' to die then I see nothing wrong with Kyp obliging them.

Lets face it civilian casualities are unfortunate but they are the price of war.

This is a war the Vong wanted, well Kyp is making sure they know the price of that war.

It's noones fault but theirs.

As for Kyp tricking others into destroying the worldship.. Yes he did. But it takes two to lie. One to talk and the other to listen. Wedge and Kre'fey made no attempt to follow up on Kyps information. They didn't try to verify it, they just took him at his word and forged on.

How does that make them look? Pretty stupid.

 

You're justifying intentional civilan deaths for military gain. You would never do that in the real world, so there's no reason to do it in the star wars world.

And I really don't understand your Luke analogy here.


As for the previous poster: You are basically saying that if I suspect a previously peaceful person of going on a murderous rampage that I can kill that person and be correct. Those YV have not contributed to the war. They couldn't possibly when they can't even transfer themselves to a habitable planet. They are civilians.

 

I dont get it. What civilians? Yes Kyp made refs to civilians but does he really know? I've read all the books and dont see anyone who doesnt fight. I dont see mothers playing with their kids. Friendly shoemakers chatting with the milkman! Vong villipvision stars! Nothing of the like. Warriors. Preists. Shapers. Polaticians. Thats all I see.

I think Vong civilians are a myth.

 

Every person in the entire galaxy is capable of fighting. Not all of them have fought, and not all YV have fought.

Just because you aren't shown the YV family life or the YV children doesn't mean they aren't there. The novels just center on the "good guys". Saying the YV have no civilians is highly stereotpical, imo.

 

Well I'll beleive it when I see it.

 

Kyp has killed civilians. He admitted it. And that's not right. If I did that, then I would be thrown in jail, court-martialed, and sent to Leavenworth for a few years.

The end does not justify the means. And you disagree, then you have a long, hard life ahead of you.

 

I would like to point out that Kyp did not attack and kill civilians.

Kyp attacked and destroyed a Yuuzhan Vong worldship that was still under construction.

Yes civilians on the other world ships would have transferred to the new ship but cant because it is destroyed.

They will probably die.

But that is not Kyps fault.

It is the fault of the Yuuzhan Vong hierarchy. If they think civilian life is worthless. If they think that diverting manpower from the front lines would be wasted saving their own people then you know what?

It's the fault of the Yuuzhan Vong and the Vong alone.

It isnt Kyps responsibility to save Vong lives. It is his job to wipe out the enemy and destroy their resources. If the Vong are too stupid to save themselves then let them die.

 

so if the Vong said they would kill a Vong civvie for every Warrior killed, would the Jedi stop to save the civvies?

 

I hope not. That would be suicide for the people of the GFFA. The Jedi have to keep the greater good in mind. The greater good being the lives of the citizens of The New Republic. The Vong civilian or not do not fall under that category.

 

Kyp Durron is kickin' ass in the hero poll.

 

_admiral_kettch_ -

I couldn't agree any more with everything you're saying.

I dont get it. What civilians?

The editors and authors of the NJO have portrayed the YV as they must: evil & callous. As kettch notes, that does not exclude civilians from the YV hierarchy. In fact, we were shown a very personal side of the YV from a Shamed One (Taan) who assisted Corran, Anakin and Tahiri in Rebirth.

Also consider that in any heirarchal society such as the YV, the majority of people lies at the bottom: the Shamed Ones surely carry the brunt of the society.

Someone once said that the Shamed Ones perpetuate the YV killing machine and deserve to die. Not only is such a notion contrary to the whole idea of a jedi which Kyp knowingly yet intentionally violates, but Rebirth foreboded of a large majority of the YV population which could rise against its oppressors if shown how. There is a very human & personal side to the YV hierarchy that definitely does exist.

Yes civilians on the other world ships would have transferred to the new ship but cant because it is destroyed. They will probably die. But that is not Kyps fault.

Not only is taking their lives Kyp's fault, he violates the very idea of a "true jedi" when he intentionally deceives others (Wedge Antilles & Jaina) in killing innocents who may later on rise in our favor.

 

Definitely a villain. Points very well made by kettch with references...