Kyp Durron in Dark Journey (spoilers)

The question I didn't pose in the topic? Has anyone's opinion of Kyp Durron changed after reading DJ?

I was really impressed at the relationship between him and Jaina and the way it was developed. I don't really think it's romantic at all, but important in the Master/Student/friendship/respect type areas.

Some reaction I've gotten already is that the author wrote him inconsistently, but Cunningham seemed to take just as much care in developing and deepening Kyp's character as Jaina's. He's going through some serious change, and that's not going to happen overnight, even in a book.

For example, the scene where he warns Jaina not to cross a certain line (can't remember the particulars at the moment), and she comes back with "Oh,it's okay for you but not for me." Hits him like a slap in the face (which Jaina has already administered anyway ). He suddenly realized this is how everyone else has been viewing him.

In a sense, the "Dark Journey" is as much Kyp's as Jaina's. Only his has been much longer. Consider his words to her, "Did you ever think that you might be the one who's saving me?"

At the same time, he doesn't suddenly swing all the way over to Luke's camp, and begin apologizing profusely for every time he went against him. He hasn't been written out of character at all, just evolved somewhat.

Also, consider his resolution at the end of the book to attempt and re-establish the Jedi Council. Kyp Durron?! I sincerely hope this storyline plays out strongly, for it has interesting possibilities, for better or worse.

Thoughts?

 

I thought his line about re-establishing the Jedi Order was the funniest thing in the book.



Oh wait, he may have been serious.

 

Kyp's just a jerk, it'll take a lot to put him on my lighter side.

 

I, too, was impressed by how Elaine Cunningham handled Kyp in Dark Journey. As many people may recall, I have had some serious problems with Kyp, especially his actions with regard to the worldship in Rebirth. I'm not sure that his character has evolved that much, because we haven't seen much of his character before this.

However, there were a few things that surprised me. For example, when he realized that he had misjudged Jaina all this time, thinking that she was some sort of "Jedi princess" when she thought of herself as more of a "Jedi mechanic". He actually stopped to consider his paradigms and changed a few of them.

Do I think he's right? No. Has he set everything right now? Again, no.

He is in the middle of a repentance process, and that is not something that you can do overnight. To repent literally means to turn away. He has started the process by recognizing his mistakes in the past, but in order to complete the process he needs to 1) correct his previous actions (to the best of his abilities) and then 2) not repeat his previous errors. He has begun this process, but it will probably take the rest of his life.

Kimball Kinnison

 

I too really liked the way Kyp was handled in this book. Though he really shouldn't establish a Jedi Council, that thing was so incredibly stupid in the Phantom Menace, and reading the JA series just proves it to me.

 

I have to take the opposite side of this from you guys. I will agree with most of your points, but I do think that Kyp was a little inconsistent in DJ. At one point, he'd be saying something was going to far, then he'd be thinking he'd be willing to make any sacrifice to fufill what he saw his mission as. I suppose it could be his wavering, not sure what he really believes. However, even letting that go, he doesn't fit the Kyp I saw in SbS. Kyp came back into line with Luke in SbS. He agreed to play by the rules and take orders. However, at the opening of DJ, it's as if that hadn't happened. I felt like the character development we saw in SbS was ignored and then basically repeated in DJ, albiet with a bit more detail.

 

To me, one of the best aspects of this book was Kyp's character. I really liked how, for the first time, he saw the logical extension of his policy of "Ends justify the means" when Jania began to take things too far. Force lightning tossed around casually, mind wiping everyone (including her best friend), performing medical tests on a human without him knowing about it...

Up until this point Kyp had been looking out for himself, and felt that anyone who followed him did so out of their own free will, and that absolved him of any guilt (in his mind) if something bad came of him. His squadron was destroyed how many times in the series so far? He was put face-to-face with his leading his squadron to their deaths when Jania was sending the lone pilots on the suicide missions against the Vong fleet.

All this built up in Kyp throughout the book. Realizing how easily someone using his philosophy was falling to the dark side, and how he had sent his squadron to their deaths was much like Jania sending the pilots on suicide missions led Kyp to the logical extension of his own views on the Force and he didn't like what he saw.

This realization at the end led him seek Luke and re-create the Jedi council

 

I loved the portrayal of Kyp in DJ. I've heard complaints about his inconsitency in the book but I think that it was Cunningham's way of bringing out his process of guilt and self realization. I've said before that Kyp's being Jaina's master would help his just as much as it would her. I think this was displayed in the book. Just consider Jaina's last vision where Kyp said that "Did you ever think that you were the one saving me?" I also liked the way he enteracted with Jaina in the story. I believe that she has begun to see him in a differnt light.

 

I have never been a huge fan of kyps character, but i did enjoy getting to see more of his character and i thought it was hilarious when he realized how he was viewing jaina was just about exactly how the rest of the jedi viewed him.

 

JHC_JEDI

You typed "Jania" three times in your post.
It's JAINA.
Pronounced: Jane-Ah. Jaina.

I'm not trying to be mean, really I'm not. But Jania is not the charcter's name. She's been with us for over ten years.

 

As much as Kyp is debated around here I would have thought that this thread would be on fire by now. Well, perhaps everyone has not read DJ yet.










UP!

 

This sounds good, it's encouraging me to by the book.

2 points:

Kyp's 'ends justify means' policy was never as extreme as it seems to some here. He saw the Vong as an aggressor who had to be opposed, he did not fear crossing over to the dark side becase none of the killing was done out of anger.

It is said that because Kyp lead the taking out of the Vong worldship, loads of Vong children died. Why shuld that be Kyp's responsibility? What he knew was that the Vong should not be allowed a massive, new worldship, irrespective of potential use. The Vong should not have been so militaristic and obsessed over war as to neglect attending to their kids. A real example is the evacuation of British children to the countryside in WWII. A German bomber crew, doing to London what British crews wee doing to Berlin, could quite easily retort that it was the British's own fault children died as they kept them in the city. More recently, consider the human shield concept seen in the Gulf and Balkan wars.

Kyp's policy was more aggressive than Lke's but it was not infinitely so, Kyp knew to make it such would return him to the dark side; something he knows very well.

Jaina's redemption is not going to be easy, if ever, given the acts attributed to her in this book. By all accounts this dark side fall lies only behind Anakin Skywalker's, not even Luke and Kyp fell so far or so deep.

The second point concerns the reforming of the Council, what makes anyone think it will be the same as the old? That the old was destroyed is a quite effective indication of failure? The Jedi will recognise it as such and learn from it.

Jedi Ben

 

I found Kyp Durron's character to be right on. Along with his Sith baggage, Cunningham used Octa Ramis to point out his stubborn attacks. Jaina Solo was used to point out how important chain of command is and how the Force should be used. He is beginning to progress the same likable way that Fey'lya did. I pray that this is not a sign of his imminent death.

It was inevitable that he help set up a new (High) Jedi Council. I find the new Jedi Order's ignorance of the other threeJedi councils disturbing however. Back in the day there was the First Knowledge Council, the High Council (five permanent members, four long-term members, & three limited-term members), the Reassignment Council, and the Reconciliation Council (five members, though rarely the same five). I can only hope Kyp revives these councils also to obtain a better balance.

 

I really liked the dialogue between Kyp and Jag. Kyp was probably my favorite part of the book.

 

I liked the Kyp and Jag combination too. I thought that they made a good team. It was intersting what was brought out about thier first meeting. It was never in any of the books from what I rememebered but it was written in a way that seemed to assumed the reader knew about it. I for one would have liked to have read that scene.

 

Yes, Jag also added an interesting element to the whole thing. I was really surprised at how the grudgingly respectful relationship between him and Kyp had emerged by the end of the book. I'm sure most people around here would have bet quite a lot that it would have turned out the opposite, but I don't think anyone considered the two of them in the same context, just which one was more right for Jaina.

"Why does Jaina Solo hate you so much?"

 

Sache, I'm glad someone else saw the grudgingly respectful aspect of Jag Fel and Kyp Durron. I believe that it was a result of each character's attraction to Jaina and their mutual understanding of the other's attraction. Personally, I feel that Kyp's urging of the Jag and Jaina relationship by the end of the book was a result largley of how he percieved her feelings when she had the vision about him and the dissapointment she felt when Jag did not appear to feel the same way. I think he realizes or at least believes that he's either not good for her or that she does not feel that way about him and wants her to be happy. I think that this is a good side to Kyp. Contrary to the one that Jaina saw in which he was only self serving. So many people around here deny that Kyp had any attraction to Jaina, that he was only using her, but I feel that there is evidence in DJ to support that he was attracted to her, at least on a subconscience level. I'm not sure if it will ever materialize into anything and I don't really want to start the debate again. So many people are against it.

 

*cheers that Lianna doesn't want to start debate again!*

j/k

 

No Freya, really I don't. I was just voicing my opinion. Please, don't bait me. I'm not that strong yet.

 

I found it very interesting that Kyp wanted a Jedi Council re-established as well.

 

I liked that Kyp wanted to start the Council back again too. Perhaps more than anyone he can understand the need for the it.

 

hehe...I was only playing with you Lianna.

 

I have always thought that Jacen would inherit Luke's place when he was through, but the way things are going with Kyp and his redemption, it looks like he might be a good future head of the Jedi.

 

Thanks a lot Freyja!

No, Love, as much as I like Kyp or say love Kyp, I don't think that he would or should head the Jedi.

 

"So many people around here deny that Kyp had any attraction to Jaina, that he was only using her, but I feel that there is evidence in DJ to support that he was attracted to her, at least on a subconscience level."

Here's a little quote, Lianna, that shows that, at the least, he notices how pretty she is:

"He stabbed a finger at her in a gesture that reminded her a little too much of her father in a parental snit.
"Don't challenge me, Jaina."
"Give me one good reason."
His eyes raked over her, and the expression in them dispelled any fatherly comparisons. "You couldn't channel the Force wearing that dress. There isn't enough room in there for it to squeeze through...."

Clearly, the "unfatherly" expression in his eyes meant that he was gaping at her, or ogling her, or something.