Kyp Durron vs. Luke Skywalker who's philosophy is best?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Streick, Aug 24, 2001.

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Kyp Durron vs. Luke Skywalker who's philosophy is best?

Poll closed Sep 23, 2001.
Kyp Durron 37 vote(s) 43.5%
Luke Skywalker 48 vote(s) 56.5%
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  1. nightstun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    what annoys me are people calling them warriors when they were Knights and like Knights they had quests and violence was always a last resort.aaaaarrrrrgggggghhh!!
    to become a general has really nothing to do with your fighting ability It deals with your ability to look at the bigger picture and being able to use tactics it is more likely he got the title of General by being able to conduct good strategies for battle not for being able to fight good

    and calling them warriors relates them to the Vong and that is why they call the vong warriors they are there to fight only with no say in the matter. So please never refer to the Jedi as warriors it is degrading

    Nightsun
  2. MoronDude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2000
    star 6
    Kyp's ideas may be proactive, and show the Vong what's what, it will ultimatly lead to the Dark Side.

    Luke, however slow and ineffective, will allow the Jedi to have a future after the Vong Invasion has been taken care of.
  3. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    The best philosophy would be one that combines the best of both Kyp's philosophy and Luke's philosophy, but since that may never happen I'd side with Luke. Kyp doesn't alwyas think before he takes action, and he jumps to conclusions. He uses people and doesn't seem to care. Not the kind of person I'd want as a leader. What good will it do if the Jedi follow Kyp and wipe out the Vong, only to return as Dark Jedi and wipe out their own galaxy?
  4. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    I completely agree with the sentiment that fans want action and Kyp gives it to them.

    Luke understands the responsibilities of being a leader better and more completely than anyone else. Luke understands that alliance with the NR is a must to defeat the YV (Kyp NEEDED NR and RS help to destroy that worldship). Kyp, acting without foresight or consequence, does everything in his power to drive away the NR and its government (since policing smugglers in VP). Now I know we all believe that the NR government sucks (and there is in fact at least 1 YV supporter in there), but bureacracy has always been a necessary evil in Star Wars literature. I see Luke standing in the middle trying to reconcile Kyp's ever-agressive actions with the NR government because he understands more than anyone else, that eventually the jedi need to be united with the NR and that after the war, the jedi need to be on talking terms with the government.

    Also consider this: a true leader takes on responsibility for his supporters. Now Kyp is a competent Jedi and more importantly, a survivor. Even though his Dozen were completely decimated in VP upon meeting skips for the first time, Kyp was the lone survivor. Even though a couple of his dozen were lost in scouting out that supposed superweapon in Rebirth, Kyp survived. Kyp shows no responsibility to his followers - we assume that his constituents are more than willing to give their life to Kyp's cause (and in the process dwindle the number of formidible jedi when the real opportunity to thwart the YV threat arises, Miko Reglia and Wurth Skidder for example), but also that Kyp is more than willing to give his supporters' lives. Although we have not seen much of Kyp's side, he shows little remorse for so many that have died in the name of his supposed "doing-something" cause.

    Kyp is on his what? 3rd or 4th Dozen by now after Rebirth?
  5. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    he lost all at the start, some in Jedi Eclipse, seven or so in Rebirth. Hate to tell you, but Squadrons do lose people. Even the Rogues do.


    This is my biggest gripe with NJO, as Ive said before. Youre all saying Kyp doesnt plan. How do we know? We never ehar anything? We know so little on one side of the argument it's stupid.
  6. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    ReaperFett: "he lost all at the start, some in Jedi Eclipse, seven or so in Rebirth. Hate to tell you, but Squadrons do lose people. Even the Rogues do."

    Ah but that was not the point of my post. Maybe re-read it in its entirety? Not only is Kyp deceptive and manipulative, but he is also irresponsible as leader of his Dozen. Irresponsible to long-term effects his actions may cause, irresponsible to the people he manipulates, and most importantly, irresponsible as leader of his Dozen.
  7. nightstun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    -vergere- Finally I get someone at this page to help me show that Kyp lives for the here and now and that will not win the war against the vong it does show irresposnibility and it has cost him the lives of quite a few people.\
    REAPERFETT we know people die in squadrons but the point is if he wasn't so GUNG HO about it some of those lives could have been spared

    Nightsun
  8. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    theyre volunteer missions. He doesnt push them, does he?
  9. Streick Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2001
    I'm liking this now. Nightstun I like your way of debating the issue, you are very logical and methodical. Reaperfett I can see your point on several issues but try not to get so steamed up! Ultimately I agree with Nightstun but you are both doing really well!
  10. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    ReaperFett: "This is my biggest gripe with NJO, as Ive said before. Youre all saying Kyp doesnt plan. How do we know? We never ehar anything? We know so little on one side of the argument it's stupid."

    I agree with you here 100% here. But you have to understand this is the Skywalkers we're talking about, who have given rise to a long lineage of powerful jedi.

    Still, the fact remains that Kyp shows no remorse as leader for the lives his supporters give. Furthermore, Kyp is a manipulative and selfish leader.

    Having said all that, I really believe Kyp is integral to the NJO. He had one of the more memorable quotes in the series so far ("This is OUR war. WE are the New Jedi Order."). As I've said before, Kyp is a powerful jedi and a survivor. With all the theories flying around about the next supposed death, I really hope both Kyp and Jacen remain throughout the entirety of this series. Both balance each other and their ideas well. When those two extremes ever reconcile, watch out YV! :)

    This invasion has caused a unique time wherein the people of the galaxy are at war with themselves as much as the YV. As far as philosophies go, I really believe Kyp's strains progress to win the war among ourselves - which we must do first before we may attack the YV as united jedi WITH the NR and possibly even with the IR.
  11. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    IR is the Imps, right?
  12. -Vergere- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2001
    star 4
    IR = Imperial Remnant
  13. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
  14. RogueJeedai Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2001
    star 4
    <<violence was always a last resort.>>

    Don't you think its time to move on to the last resort? The NR is running out of options, and if violence is their only hope, SO BE IT.
  15. darth-skycrawler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 2
    I still don't see how trying to push the vong out of the galaxy would turn a jedi to the darkside. Luke is not a knight. A knight in the camelot years went around saving helpless people and fighting to protect people like Kyp. The knights also used to be heavily dedicated to God. Kyp is dedicated to the force and he selflessly puts his life on the line for others. If England was avaded by an enemy force and they started wiping out entire cities would it be wrong to attack them. Ny the time Luke begins to act it will be too late. Luke and Jacen are the same fight if your family is in trouble and twiddle your thumb when anybody else is. Luke attacked when Jacen got caught and Jacen attacked when Leia got caught. Kyp attacks when any innocent is in trouble therefore he is a true knight.
  16. wild_karrde Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 1999
    star 7
    Luke should be more like Cock-Knocker:

    "Don't f*** with a Jedi Master!"
  17. ganner_rhysode Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2001
    star 4
    Where was the "neither" option?

    Luke needs some Pro Plus and Kyp needs some Valium...and possibly some electro-convulsive therapy to make him keep his eyes off Jaina.
  18. Nightsun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2001
    star 2
    pushing them out without getting to understand or even know if there is any good in them is aggressive which is of the dark side

    Roguejeedai well the only problem about your statement is that you said they are running out of options which means they still have a few left therefore they don't need to use violence until they've exhausted those last few

    Nightsun
  19. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    yes, there arwe a few options left. But while they prattle round waiting, millions more die. Wow, Luke's a great protector of the people
  20. Nightsun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2001
    star 2
    again ReaperFett you are looking at the smaller picture Luke is setting this whole thing up to save trillions of lives and we know no matter what he himself cannot defeat the vong it has to be the jedi, the NR, the IR and possibly the chiss and all but the jedi have an HQ to launch missions from by setting up this HQ he will be able to save the GFFA not just the millions you keep refering to

    Nightsun
  21. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    Lukes planning? All Ive seen is him planning how the Jedi can stay hidden. THe longer he waits, the more plants the Vong take, the more Vong are created, the quicker the galaxy goes. Kyp has it right, get the Worldships now. They cant win without them. The longer they wait, the less chance terell be.



    And prove to me Kyp isnt thinking long term, being as we never read his thoughts
  22. Nightsun Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2001
    star 2
    I guess you never read Rebirth because it states that part of the reason in fact the main part of setting up the river is to have a place the jedi can act from and I'm sure nobody minds if the vong wants to take a few plants (JJ refering to your last post)and if the jedi have no place to gather and collect info they won't know the best way to deal with the vong.

    now to deal with your bigger issue which is Kyp's ability to think Long Term and you're right we don't see his thoughts but we see his actions and we hear his speaches and then there are those tid bits of info we get from other characters all refering to his agressive nature and his one track mind KILL THE VONG!! If he were thinking long term he would be thinking what the GFFA will be like after the Vong invasion but he doesn't want to look that far because he is dabbing in the dark side and doesn't want to see how things will turn out if he keeps acting the way he has been. In fact we don't even know if he has the ability to see visions and look long term this is admittedly your best point so far but as I said there are numerous hints that point to his inability

    Nightsun
  23. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    I read Rebirth. I still think there are better things he could do.


    Also, my point is, you cant say Kyp thinks short term until you have read him actually think it. All we've seen are some great speechs
  24. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    Darth-Skycrawler, Kyp's way is turning him and his followers to the dark side in part because he is attempting to kill ALL the Vong, not just those that are attacking. An example is

    ***SPOLIERS FOR REBIRTH***






    destroying the worldship in Rebirth. Though there were not any Vong on the ship he caused or will cause the deaths of thousands of other innocent Vong as their own worldships die and they can't get a new one. This is of the dark side since he is not attempting to understand the Vong and their customs. Perhaps if he did he would find that not all the Vong deserve to die. Isn't it true that the Jedi must protect the innocent? Well, some of the Vong are innocent and if Kyp wants to kill them, so be it, but that is where the Light side ends and the Dark begins. It is almost an unsolvable problem in a way, since there also innocent non-Vong that are dying that the Jedi must protect, but if the Jedi don't want to end up on the Dark side they should probably follow Luke.
  25. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    innocents dont join invasion parties
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