Discussion in 'Literature' started by Streick, Aug 24, 2001.
ReaperFett: "innocents dont join invasion parties"
What if they don't have a choice??? We don't know enough about the Vong society to say that for sure. Yes, the warrior Vong who are attacking ought to die but suppose they have families back on some worldship and it gets destroyed? The killing of those Vong who are not being aggressive in any way would be hard to justify under the Light side of the Force.
eeven though I and a few others have proven that Luke's philosophies are better Kyp is still a powerful jedi and I will try to look at it from your point of view here are some of Kyp's philosophies since you and others failed to give me any
1) Kyp believes that if he takes the fight to the Vong other worlds will be spared
2) by acting he believes he is taking out vong that could help them win the war in the long run
3) he believes so deeply in what he does he truly can't concieve it being wrong
4) Kyp states in a few books that because him and Luke both turned to the dark side and came back that it is not as dangerous as Luke makes it seem
5) Kyp believes that if he can wipe out the vong his bad rep will be turned good
these are just a few of the things I've picked up on through the NJO and for each one of his philosophical views I can and have proven why according to the force Luke's views are better and more light sided
I missed this thread and I've only skimmed through it so here's 2 creds.
Luke has no philosophy, he's always changing his mind, getting lectured by others(corran, mara, kyp) and really doesn't know anything about the vong. I say a combo of kyp, anakin, and jaina would make an ideal philosophy. Actually i'd let kyp handle everythin but I value other's opinions unlike the over-40-luke.
ReaperFett: Get a clue. There is a saying that is very true: Actions speak louder than words. So we might not know his thought but we know his actions. And Kyp is a lying, manipulative, self-centered @Â§Â§. If the jedi go to the dark side then with the amout of dark jedi it would be worse than the empire. and the best defence is not the best offence. Luke has so many things on his mind he tries his best and has a better philosophy yet people like Kep. When will some people learn.
Master Skywalker's philosophy, while not perfect (but possibly improving), is the better of the two. I think people aren't giving him credit for the amount of involvment Luke Skywalker has in this war.
First, Master Skywalker is the foundation from which the "new Jedi order" sprang up. He knows more about what it means to be a Jedi then anyone. And while Luke did fall to the dark side for a time, he did it in an attempt to LEARN about his enemy. On the other hand, Kyp willfully gave in to the temptation of the illusion of power the dark side offers. And it was Master Skywalker's understanding about the ability of redemption that kept Kyp from the death penalty for his crimes after the Sun Crusher incident.
While I can sympathize with Kyp's desire to take on the bad guys of the universe. I think it is his overwhelming enthusiasm that is the flaw in his plan. He's still the angry little boy destroying anything or anyone in an effort to avenge his parents and brother (who technically... HE KILLED think about that one Kyp). While Kyp makes grand speeches and lies to people who should be his allies (Jaina and Rogue Squadron), he doesn't care about the big picture.
Lastly, while recon missions and protecting refugees may not be as exciting as the exploits of Kyp and his dozen; Master Skywalker was in the frontlines of the war starting at Belkadan. Unfortunatly, now he also has to focus on the saftey of the entire Jedi order. Something Kyp would find too boring and not as glamerous.
I think Master Skywalker is about to increase his activity in the conflict, and the involvment of the Jedi (with or without the New Republic government's permission). I just hope Kyp wasn't lying about his commitment (he's broken promises before) to a unified front.
I thought the world ships held only shamed ones, children, and old folks. Why would killing the worldships make a difference?
world ships are needed to carry Vong round. No carrying, no huge conquests
Kyp is the Qui-Gon of the NJO. He's a good Jedi, but others don't exactly agree with his methods. Like with Qui and Anakin it took a while for everyone to see that Anakin was the chosen one. It will take some time for most to see that what Kyp did probably saved most of the Galaxy from becoming slaves or refugees. Luke is a great leader but it looks like his thoughts are elsewhere these days. Understandably so with a wife and son. Remember Luke's first master Was Obi-Wan. Although Qui told him to keep himself in the here and now. He still looked at the bigger picture which is what Luke is doing. So although their styles are different they complment each other. Lukes starts the network while Kyp delivers a blow to the Vong. It all works out.
"I thought the world ships held only shamed ones, children, and old folks"
read rebirth. no children, no elderly(I'm sure the vong practice euthenasia), no shamed ones except for possibly a couple janitors. It was probablly completely empty since vacuum might not of been sealed out yet.
* sighs *
This is like the 10,000th thread with this as a topic.
But WOW this is close!!!!!
Hey if the worldships are mostly empty as some of you have said why attack them? That's like cracking an egg open when you know there's nothing inside.
current worldships dying
no worldships = no movement for many Vong
no new Worldship = a good thing for the NR
Neither one is best IMHO..
But there are some " good" points from each..
Depending on your point of veiw
"Hey if the worldships are mostly empty as some of you have said why attack them? That's like cracking an egg open when you know there's nothing inside."
Well, gee - the Death Star was harmless until they actually used the thing too. Bad, bad Rebels. The Sith were harmless until they actually acted - bad, bad Jedi. The Krytos Virus - yep, it's harmless sitting there all alone in its vials. Why not keep the thing around just for yucks.
Imagine trying to destroy those things, when they're harmless 99% of their lifetime. Shame on people.
I think that they are both idiots.
Kyp is so overly obsessed with killing Vong that he some how forgot about his brother and Carida.
On the other hand Luke is a Pussy, how can deny that there is a time and a place to take up in the face of attack. Case in point, the the great hyperspace war, the Sith War, The Clone Wars and countless other battles.
i think they need to find a middle ground. i get frustrated at Luke sitting on his butt pretty much doing nothing, while Kyp is practically terrorizing the galaxy again. he's learned nothing about aggressiveness.
A Jedi is supposed to be the guardian of peace and justice. the Yuuzhan Vong are destroying that peace and justice. what's peaceful about an extra-galactic race coming in to take over your home? what's just about them killing billions of innocent people just because their "gods ordained it"? seems to me that if i were a Jedi that'd be reason enough for me to go and personally kick the butts of each and every Yuuzhan Vong out there. but i don't agree with Kyp's methods. nor do i agree with Luke's lack of action.
I don't really think that either one of them is completely right, but I voted for Luke because Luke is a much more likeable person. Plus, I hate Kyp...he just...bugs me. ::shudder::
hate leads to the dark side, marie...
Hello all, it's been a long time but I can see most of the topics are still close to what they were when I left so I'll throw the same two cents I've thrown in every time this topic has come up.
I'd say neither is completely right, but Kyp is far closer to what needs to be done. He wants to defend his people, but the Jedi for Jedi idea is to far. Luke wants to run and run until everyone is killed off and is afraid to use the Force for anything. This is just stupid and unlike anything we saw in the movies. Kyp's way is the only one that will allow them to survive and the over-the-hill-ruined-by-bad-authors Luke that we have now is just a waste of space (that's very hard for me to say since he's always been one of my favorite heros).
And once again people, please stop comparing Luke to Obi-wan. If Obi-wan acted the way Luke does now when those two were in the Cantina on Tattooine, the movie would have ended when Ben was too scared to use the force and the Doc killed them both.
I don't think that either of them is more correct than the other. They both have valid points and they both have things that they need to be doing better.
For Luke I think he needs to continue looking to the future but, like Qui-Gon told Obi-Wan, not at the expense of the moment. He needs to give a little more attention to the here and now and use that to help him plan for the future.
Foe Kyp I think that he needs to to do the opposite of Luke. He needs to look more to the future and what consaquences his actions are going to have. He is so eager to show people that he is not the same person that destroyed Carida that he is forgeting the lesson that he learned, that if you take the path that seems easier you may likely end up lost. I also think that lying to get your way is never right, no matter how justified you feel in it. It may work but that does not make it right.
Those are my two cents worth.
i see both points of view, but im still with luke.
knowledge and defense. never attack
"i see both points of view, but im still with luke.
knowledge and defense. never attack "
well luke's about to gain some very priviliged info because of that tactic. What's the after life like.
Kyp's, the YV are different from any other threat and must be haddled close to what Kyp's doing.