Kyp Durron vs. Luke Skywalker who's philosophy is best?

I think that Luke has the most sensible thoughts

 

'what the afterlife is like'

gee - that was clever

thats the philosophy as i see it. excuse me for voicing it.

im really sick of people bashing lukes ideals. the jedi master who taught luke with 900 years experience was voicing the non-aggressive standpoint till he died. ill believe him over some shmuck with a happy trigger finger who was causing stars to go nova. (know what - lets just blow iraq off the map and put a sea there to get rid of saddam)

kyp is too aggressive and it'll come back on him later

 

I agree that lukes Philosaphy(sp) is better. I think LFL thinks so too, thats why they are lukes, not Kyps. If you take my meaning.

 

"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."--Yoda

*****WARNING, EPISODE II SPOILERS******

In Episode II, Yoda leads an army of Jedi Knights and clone troopers into battle. Yoda also gets in a lightsaber duel with Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus.

Note: Count Dooku strikes first by trying to kill senators and building a driod army that Obi-Wan discovers while on a spy mission for the Council. Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme are captured and are about to die when an army of Jedi Knights and clone troopers, lead by Yoda and Mace Windu, breaks in and saves the them.
************END SPOILERS***************

"But, Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future."--Obi-Wan Kenobi
"But, not that the expense of the moment, be mindful of living Force, young Padawan"--Qui-Gon Jinn

 

I think that Lukes approach is better than Kyp's. I'll be the first to admit that i am quickly tiring of the lack of action the Jedi seem to be taking, however it is easy to see why Luke feels the way he does.
To begin with: Luke is THE MOST EXPERIENCED Jedi in the Galaxy. If any can understand the nature of the force (which i am uncertain they do) then Luke would be that person (Mara perhaps has an equally valid viewpoint, however it is one that agrees with Luke). It is arrogant of Kyp to disagree with Luke, and arrogance itself can lead to the Dark Side.
Secondly, The handful of Jedi are not responsible for the Galaxy. By all means, by trying to protect the galaxy as a whole, they are taking the responsibility away from individual people to control the direction of their own lives, which philosophically wrong. Further to this, they Jedi couldn't even if they wanted to. Many argue that by doing nothing, billions would die. Well, Kyp has been doing something, and millions have still died. Obi-wan said it when he said "A Jedi cannot get so caught up with matters of Galactic importance, if it means he stops paying attention to the individual" (or something like that). The Jedi alone cannot stop the Vong, and by trying to do so, they would instill false hope in the general populace. They can't do it. For heavens sake, the entire Jedi order of the old republic wasn't able to stop Vader and Palpatine destroying them. Also, the most ruthless and evil Sith lord in the Galaxy still couldn't repel the insignificant threat of a rebellion, so how are a group of fully trained Jedi supposed to repel a force of a planned military invasion?
That brings me to my third point: Many of you argue that the Old Republic knights were fierce warriors of action. For a start they weren't. They fought in defense. They DID NOT hunt down their enemy and slaughter them to a man (this is what Kyp suggests). Even Luke has fought, in defense of individuals.
The Jedi are the guardians of peace and justice, not the elite army of the Republic.
Finally, it is not right to compare the NJO jedi with that of the Old Republic. They are the NEW Jedi Order, with their own paths to take, and rightly so. In my opinion, the Old Jedi didn't get it all right if they were wiped out by two renegade Sith.

 

"the jedi master who taught luke with 900 years experience was voicing the non-aggressive standpoint till he died."

You mean the confront Darth Vader before a Jedi you are guy?

 

Double post. Look at the one below this.

 

Look, I've put a lot of thoguht into this and I have supported Kyp very well in all of these threads. Some of them are better than others. Take a look through all of them. Cause I don't feel like typing it all over again. Especially since I'd have to wade through this 75 post thread. Just if you think that people aren't giving good reasons for Kyp or you like these debates or something take a look.

"but so far all I've read is: Kyp rocks, Kyp no doubt, Kyp offense against evil is defense,"

But don't complain that people don't support Kyp with facts and reasons and only say Kyp rocks, Kyp all the way or whatever if you aren't going to look:

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=3635461&page=1

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=3593770&page=1

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=3603049&page=1

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=3671433&page=1

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=3659470&page=1

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=3751661&start=3751765

 

GA_Pellaeon.........
"It is arrogant of Kyp to disagree with Luke, and arrogance itself can lead to the Dark Side"

There is no such thing as the darkside anyway. It's just a metaphor. See the link in my signature and go there for more information on this. And it's not arrogant. Disagreement is good. If all the leaders agreed nothing new would ever happen. Our society would never improve. Disagreement is necessary for improvement. It is not arrogant.

"Further to this, they Jedi couldn't even if they wanted to. Many argue that by doing nothing, billions would die. Well, Kyp has been doing something, and millions have still died."

Which is millions of people less than who would have died and it's only Kyp. If the Jedi would act in concert with the NR military they would be very effective in protecting the galaxy.

"Mara perhaps has an equally valid viewpoint, however it is one that agrees with Luke"

Why are Mara and Luke the only ones with VALID viewpoints. All the fully trained Jedi and everybody else too have a VALID viepoitn especially Kyp who is a Jedi Master too.

"Secondly, The handful of Jedi are not responsible for the Galaxy. By all means, by trying to protect the galaxy as a whole, they are taking the responsibility away from individual people to control the direction of their own lives, which philosophically wrong."

You're taking that a little too far. It's not the people's fault that they're in the middle of an invasion corridor. They're helpless. The Jeid are supposed to help the helpless. These people cannot fight the Vong. They are asking for help. They cheer Kyp because he is helping them. What do you want them to do?

"said "A Jedi cannot get so caught up with matters of Galactic importance, if it means he stops paying attention to the individual" (or something like that)."

Exactly and Kyp by fighting is not worrying about Galactic wide politics or his own hole which he is digging by going against Luke and the Senate. Rather he is protecting the individuals by fighting against an extragalactic invasion force bent on the destruction of the galaxy.

"The Jedi alone cannot stop the Vong, and by trying to do so, they would instill false hope in the general populace."

We know they can't. Everyone knows they can't, but they can't not fight because fighting would give people false hope. That would be forfeiting and forfeit will result in the destruction of the galaxy, the death of everyone and all ithout a fight, without an attempt at least to save people. They should act in concert wih the NR miltary. This would be very effective and allow them to do more. Luke should be talking with the military about this, not doing whatever he is doing.

"For heavens sake, the entire Jedi order of the old republic wasn't able to stop Vader and Palpatine destroying them."

Don't know the details of this yet so won't comment.

"Also, the most ruthless and evil Sith lord in the Galaxy still couldn't repel the insignificant threat of a rebellion, so how are a group of fully trained Jedi supposed to repel a force of a planned military invasion?"

He was perfectly capable. His overconfidence and underestimation of Luke and Vader's good side as well as the capability of the rebellion killed him.

"Many of you argue that the Old Republic knights were fierce warriors of action. For a start they weren't. They fought in defense."

They did fight in defense which occasionally required that they fight offensively and attack the enemy. They all attacked Exar Kun at the same time. Thousands against one and they didn't stop until he was as dead as they could make him. They realized that sometimes it was necessary.

"They DID NOT hunt down their enemy and slaughter them to a man (this is what Kyp suggests)."

He does not suggest that. He suggests taking the fight to the Vong so that less innocents die. If the Vong surrender he will accept it. However, if they continue attempts to kill people to the last man then what choice does he have: Kill all the Vong or let the Vo

 

ReaperFett: "Meanwhile, Luke has started planning a way the Jedi can stay hidden. That isnt going to win survival."

Actually it can. That is exactly how the Sith survived for a millenium and made a comeback in a big way.

Now I do not buy into the idea that Kyp is being emotionless in his actions, he may have mellowed out a bit from his Sun Crusher crusade, but he is obviously in this business because A) He perceives what he's doing as fighting the oppression he personally endured. And B) The Vong killed his apprentice.

I feel the character most abused by certain fans is Jacen. But Luke is a close second. He has not been as inactive as his detractors claim. As the head Jedi, he has the responsibility to ensure that this new generation of Knights is not exterminated. And he DID fight to defend Ithor. But it was just that, defense. The thing that the wise Master Yoda tells us a Jedi uses the Force for along with knowledge

I would welcome anyone who participated in this thread to look at the new Kyp/Tarkin comparison thread I will be posting.

 

"Actually it can. That is exactly how the Sith survived for a millenium and made a comeback in a big way"

So 75 Jedi may survive. Kyp is fighting for the survival of the WHOLE galaxy.

 

Both philosophies have their faults. Kyp's might be a little harsh but the Vong are slaying millions and are taking over the galaxy. Luke sitting on ass while the people he should be protecting are getting slaughtered. The old Jedi Order knew when it was time to draw the line, and we see that In Episode II.

SPOILERS************************************
Count Dooku is preparing to attack the Republic in a couple days when an army of Jedi show up at his base and start whooping ass. The Jedi strike first. Yoda is a general in Episode II. What Yoda meant by that quote was that Jedi don't start fights, but Jedi do bring the fight to people when the galaxy is at stake.