KYP VS. JAINA

NJ, that's not the way we do things here. I have been posting here since I was 17, and I never acted that way. (I am now 20) There is an etiqutte to posting on these boards, and any admin will tell you that age is not an excuse.

EDIT: Durron, you're about to cross the line into troll-dom. If you want to stay here, I would suggest you calm down and take a breather.

 

My thoughts on this subject are known.

Anyways, it's being overlooked that kyp has WAY more x-wing experience then jaina. The man was cleaning up piracy on the backside of the galaxy,so much so that crooked politicians were upset.*see vector prime

I still think jaina would win, but ONLY if it was a real battle. In a "safe" battle, kyp would go all out and I'd bet on him. But in a direct confrontation, I can't see him killing her whereas I CAN see her killing him.

 

Heh, I myself am merely 20 years old Narundi, so not past the stage of being a teenager by too great a margin. And yes, being that it is a Saturday, there are many many parties to attend. But, I'm stuck here at work until midnight, which SUCKS. I mean, the job is easy. All I do is basically surf the internet and chat on Instant Messenger (I'm a computer lab monitor at the University of Kansas), but it's so boring and it invades into valuable saturday party time. Ah well.

To Durron001:

You're right, you don't need my respect. Which is partly why I wasn't offering it. And no, as of right now, I don't have anything better to do. I'm stuck here at work until midnight, and your post was so amusing that I thought it, for lack of anything more fun to do, a prime time to dissect your post. I do continue to find it highly ironic that you say all WE, meaning the anti-Kyp people, do is spout "nonsense and sarcasm", when basically that's all your last post was. Narundi is right. You are certainly entitled to posting that if you want to. THis is an open opinion forum. So likewise, I am entitled to letting you know how childish I found your post to be. Next time, try not to attack people personally, and I won't have a problem with it.

JMA

 

wow, lots of 20 year olds here It doesn't surprise me. 20 is still pretty much a teenager, and lots of people in their 30's and 40's read these books and they're really written for an older audience anyway. I'd be afraid if a kid younger than 13 was reading NJO because it's so violent and complex. Kids don't need to be exposed to that kind of stuff. Oh well, that's just my opinion. Cya guys tomorrow.

Jae Angel

PS- I have at least once before stated that I have no life and that's why I read message boards. The reality is that I am a bored college student. Boredom and procrastination will make you check out message boards. I dare you guys to give me two better reasons to come here!! haha, just kidding

 

I'm in the military, and I am stationed in Iceland. Not only is it 1am here, there is little to do in Iceland. Believe me.

 

Actually I don't think Durron has any compunctions against killing anyone that gets in his way so Jaina would become a victim. In the dogfighting arena I don't really know but I would "assume" it to be pretty close. However in a ground fight Jaina would lose utterly. Jaina beating Kyp is like Jaina beating Luke...it won't happen at this junction in time. Kyp probably has more potential than Jaina(it's evidencedin JAT,etc.), and Jaina is not going to catch up in training anytime soon. Kyp was as studious a jedi trainee as they come, and breezed through the course material faster than anyone in the history of the school. Look at it this way, if Luke were to choose out of Jaina and Kyp who to fight against in a duel(and so forth) don't you think he would pick Jaina?

 

I think that even if he thought he was going to lose that he would pick Kyp if just so he could avoid hurting his niece.

I do believe that Kyp would beat Jaina. I haven't seen any evidence that Jaina is a great lightsaber fighter. Kyp has, even when not using the Dark Side. (That's a joke, don't get upset. ) In fighters, though, Jaina has proven her skill, and even Kyp has acknowledged that. In a space duel, I don't know.

Just because I don't like Kyp doesn't mean that I cannot answer objectively.

 

I agree with the general concensus here. In terms of lightsabers and Force powers, Kyp will win. In terms of a dogfight in X-wings, it's even money.

Now we know the current state of relationship between Kyp and Jaina. However, I've noticed something that they actually have in common. Both of them, at some point in their lives, have been angry with the universe.

Take Kyp. Thrown into Kessel as a kid with his family. Parents die at Kessel. Slave most of his childhood. Brother taken from him and put into academy at Carida. Regardless of your feelings for Kyp, everyone of you out there will agree that he has a right to be angry with the universe.

Now Jaina. Yuuzhan Vong invading the galaxy, killing innocents and Jedi. Politicians and most of the citizens of the galaxy against her way of life. From what we've seen in Balance Point she has resentment towards her mother that needs to be resolved. And now, with what happens in SBS (see threads on SBS spoilers and Jaina turning to the dark side to learn what happens), she's now as angry with the universe as Kyp was.

Now this is just my opinion, but I have a feeling that the relationship between Kyp and Jaina's might take an interesting twist in Dark Journey. See the other threads I've mentioned and then take a guess on what that "twist" might be.

 

Kyp will only win after he gets his upgrade and becomes Kyp Athlon.

Sorry, bad computer joke. I suspect Jaina will have the edge, either way. I believe Kyp's Dozen-and-Two Avengers got slaughtered almost to a man in Vector Prime, and even by Ruin he hadn't learned much about fighting the Vong. On the other hand, Jaina HAS learned a great deal. She's a good enough pilot to be asked to join Rogue Squadron, but she's also a competant enough Jedi to be allowed to go toe-to-toe with Vong soldiers, and she's what, sixteen? Tell me how good you'd feel about letting your kid sister or daughter fight in a war?

If, as the spoilers have mentioned, Jimmy buys it and he is who everyone says he is, why would this lead to a saber duel between Jaina and Kyp?

 

Lightsabers: Kyp, easily.
X-wings: Now this would be interesting. Jaina shows extreme talent throught the NJO and in dog fights however Kyp has exprience in battling Coral skippers and trapping Summgulers. It would be interesting indeed, whoever makes the first mistake loses.

 

JediStryker, here in America there's this thing called freedom of speech, and we can basically say anything we want. That is what forums are about. As long as we refrain from saying dirty words and stuff that violates most rules for posting, we can say anything we want. Even if we went to a party and had this punch that was pretty much straight vodka and are as drunk as a 13 year old girl right now, we don't have to worry about ettiquite cuz at 2 in the morning nobody cares anyways. I bet half the teenagers on this board are asleep!! So, I'm sure my spelling is atrocious right now, but I'm gonna have to call this a night cuz I'm making a fool out of myself and not making any sense.

Jae Angel

PS- Damn those arts majors and their stong punch!!!

 

Most of you seem to be looking at power more than personality, and the general weaknesses inherent to a personality like Kyp?s. I believe that Jaina would win in a lightsaber fight against Kyp, because he has a personality that would make him underestimate his opponent and, in the end, get him killed.

We know that personality influences the way you perceive your enemy, and also the way you fight, from The Phantom Menace. Darth Maul could have killed both of his Jedi opponents, had he not underestimated his final opponent when he was most vulnerable. Had he simply used the Force to push Obi-Wan off that little pipe, Maul would have won, the movie would have been over and Anakin would have been apprenticed to someone else.

I believe that Kyp would do a similar thing against Jaina. It could be done the way I have already described in my previous post (Kyp simply toying with Jaina for too long), or it could happen in a way very similar to what happened in the movie. When Jaina is most vulnerable, Kyp would let his guard down and Jaina would take advantage of that and kill him.

Kyp my have more physical Force strength that Jaina does right now, but Jaina has demonstrated much more cunning that Kyp ever has (see YJK books). Kyp is strong, but he has many weaknesses that Jaina could easily pinpoint and exploit, if given the opportunity.

I strongly disagree that Kyp has more potential than any of the Solo children. The test the Luke used in the JAT only demonstrated the inborn talent at Telekinesis (see I, Jedi), not the Jedi potential of a person in general. Perhaps someone can back me up here.

 

"JediStryker, here in America there's this thing called freedom of speech, and we can basically say anything we want."

You know, when I first read this, I was furious. I thought, "This little punk thinks he can lecture me on the rights and freedoms guaranteed Americans, when I am the one out here in Iceland freezing my balls off so he can sit at home and act like a complete ass???" But now I've calmed down a bit. As a member of your military, I know quite a bit about the Constitution and it's Amendments. However, in a forum run by a private organization, they have the right to decide what is and is not acceptable. The things durron has said has just about crossed that line. You may not agree, but those are the rules.

"That is what forums are about. As long as we refrain from saying dirty words and stuff that violates most rules for posting, we can say anything we want."

True. And getting pissed and flaming people for disagreeing with you violates the rules. That is what I mean when I say posting etiquette.

"Even if we went to a party and had this punch that was pretty much straight vodka and are as drunk as a 13 year old girl right now, we don't have to worry about ettiquite cuz at 2 in the morning nobody cares anyways."

Apparently somepeople do, even if you don't.

"I bet half the teenagers on this board are asleep!!"

I'm not a teenager, but I recall staying up pretty late on the weekends when I was. However, the posts here stay indefinitely until the thread goes away, so when all those tired teens wake up, those posts will be there to read.

 

You know, when I first read this, I was furious. I thought, "This little punk thinks he can lecture me on the rights and freedoms guaranteed Americans, when I am the one out here in Iceland freezing my balls off so he can sit at home and act like a complete ass???"

Well, this little 'punk' is 32 and has spent almost 4 years in Inuvik in the North West Territories, and done his military time in CFS Cornwalace in the middle of winter, while my father has done time in Alert, the world's most northerly outpost and at the American base in Thule. You volunteered to serve just as I did and just as my father did, and even perhaps as your father had. I have friends who were on the ground in Iraq with the 101st, and others with the Canadian Armed Forces in Bosnia, uncles who fought in Pacific against the Japanese, and in Europe against the Germans in both the American and Canadian armies. Trust me, their sacrficies are just a little worse than simply being cold.

But now I've calmed down a bit. As a member of your military, I know quite a bit about the Constitution and it's Amendments. However, in a forum run by a private organization, they have the right to decide what is and is not acceptable. The things durron has said has just about crossed that line. You may not agree, but those are the rules.

What has Durron said that crossed what line that offends the message boards and the admins here at theforce.net? Second, where is it said in any amendment that private organizations have the right to limit speech about Star Wars discussions?

 

JediStryker, here in America there's this thing called freedom of speech, and we can basically say anything we want.

So long as you are prepared to live with the consequences, sure.

 

Kier:
Great. You've done a great service to this country, and I am not trying to compete with you or your colleagues. I wasn't referring to you at all in my post.

I was angry at having a sarcastic 14 year old lecture me on the freedoms provided Americans. I know, probably better than he does, the rights afforded us.

"What has Durron said that crossed what line that offends the message boards and the admins here at theforce.net?"

In this and other threads he has made flaming remarks; telling people they are stupid, calling them asses, telling them they are losers with no lives, and so forth. If you know the rules of the boards, then you know this is inappropriate.

"Second, where is it said in any amendment that private organizations have the right to limit speech about Star Wars discussions?"

Obviously, no amendment covers SW discussions. However, a person has the right to censor or administer any forum that he provides. That is their right because this is their board. They do it here all the time, as I'm sure you know.

Anyway, Kier, I don't know why you were so offended by my post. Maybe you feel like I am not good enough because I haven't been in the places you have or done the things you have done; and I am sorry that you feel that way.

 

Hey JediStryker, I never called anybody an ass, but JMA wanted to start something so we did. My conduct was still within the range of approprietness required from this forum.
And also no amount of arrogence would ever let Kyp get defeated by an upstart like Jaina. When you have a collision between a mack truck and a toyota corrola, no amount of bad attitude from the truck is going to change the outcome: the owner of the toyota better have insurance. Why do you undermine Kyp's experience and power? So now Jaina can defeat Luke in a duel because if he decides to be condescending, Ha!

 

"Hey JediStryker, I never called anybody an ass, but JMA wanted to start something so we did. My conduct was still within the range of approprietness required from this forum."

Actually Durron, I wasn't starting anything, I was merely responding to you in the same tone that you addressed those of us who are anti-Kyp. Your conduct in this thread, up until that post of yours yesterday, was fine. But if you post in that manner don't expect someone to not post back in the same way, and then proceed to tell me to "get a life" when you don't have a single thing to say to any of my arguments. Like I said, don't make personal comments at people, and I won't be a smartass.

JMA

 

Whoa there buddy! Not that I don't love hearing all this arguing because it's what makes forums fun, but please get your facts straight! It was not the 14 year old Durron001 who was lecturing you about freedom of speech. It was me! I am a 20 year old. So please, if you're going to be pissed off at something, please be pissed off at the right person! I want credit for what stupid things I say when I'm ::ahem:: just a tad intoxicated. I didn't violate any of the rules here by posting while in that condition, at least I hope not. If there are any then I just gotta say that's pretty silly I dunno, you are right. Who am I, a 20 year old punk, to talk to you about freedom of speech when you're stationed in Iceland? I have friends who are ROTC and I respect anybody who will put their life on the line for our country. Because our country is AWESOME!!!! Ok, so I better stop agreeing with what people say before this arguement gets stale! But for the record I agree with you on that point.

Jae Angel

 

Anyway, Kier, I don't know why you were so offended by my post. Maybe you feel like I am not good enough because I haven't been in the places you have or done the things you have done; and I am sorry that you feel that way.

Whoa! Chill, man! I guess I got lost somewhere along the way, I thought you were talking about the Kyp Durron in the books, and not some wet behind the ears smart ass. My bad, sorry.

 

?And also no amount of arrogence would ever let Kyp get defeated by an upstart like Jaina. When you have a collision between a mack truck and a toyota corrola, no amount of bad attitude from the truck is going to change the outcome: the owner of the toyota better have insurance. Why do you undermine Kyp's experience and power? So now Jaina can defeat Luke in a duel because if he decides to be condescending, Ha!?

I thought that I already established the fact that Kyp?s arrogance would influence his fighting, and Jaina?s cunning would give her the advantage she would need to defeat him. We are not simply comparing size and power here (your truck description makes it appear that you think we are), we are talking about how Kyp would fight against Jaina. We know Darth Maul could have killed both his opponents, he had much more power than the both of them did, but he lost because of his arrogance.

I don?t quite understand your last sentence. Jaina could not defeat Luke, because Luke would not underestimate the cunning of his opponent. Arrogance is a weakness that you don?t have to be strong to exploit. Obi-Wan was hopelessly out of his league, but he defeated Maul because he knew Maul?s weakness. Kyp has made his arrogance blatantly obvious to all that have been around him. He has made no attempt to hide that weakness and the only person who would not know that that weakness could be easily exploited would be someone with an equal amount of arrogance.

Jaina would not win easily in a Lightsaber fight against Kyp, but she could win (?could? not necessarily ?would?).

In regard to Forum etiquette, any statement made in this forum that is purposefully inflammatory, is inappropriate. The question of first amendment rights is actually extremely complicated (I don?t pretend to understand it all either), and I will not get into it, other than to say that this forum has every right to regulate what is said in here.

 

I didn't think that Darth Maul even spoke for all of the time he was alive in Episode One, except maybe to say "Yes Master". Where do you get that he was arrogant? I think you need to hear a person speak before you can determine whether they're arrogant. Maul might have been overconfident, but IMHO he wasn't arrogant.

Jae Angel

PS- Kyp however is! Yes, even Kyp-lovers have to admit this one too!

 

Overconfidence doesn't have to be a weakness in this fight. Kyp has been a jedi for over a decade, now a master, I think he'd learn how to be sensible when fighting! Yeah I guess anybody could beat anybodyelse but the odds on this one are way higher than a jackpot in powerball.

 

Just to let all you guys know, I'm bowing out of Kyp threads until after SbS. These just aren't going anywhere, and they just end up frustrating me. So cheers until then!

JMA

 

Arrogance: a feeling or an impression of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims

Through Darth Maul?s actions (his ?overbearing manner?) I think he clearly demonstrated his arrogance.

?Overconfidence doesn't have to be a weakness in this fight.?

Overconfidence is always a weakness.

?Kyp has been a Jedi for over a decade, now a master, I think he'd learn how to be sensible when fighting!?

I was trying to point out that he would see little need for that sensibility when he was fighting against someone who he saw as extremely weak compared to himself. That would be a demonstration of his arrogance. Also, the fact that Kyp calls himself a master mean little. The title of Jedi Master is one that is self-proclaimed in the current Jedi order. He didn?t have to pass a test to become one. He needed only to convince himself that he was one.

?Yeah I guess anybody could beat anybody else but the odds on this one are way higher than a jackpot in powerball.?

I?m am truly glad that you are keeping an open mind about these things (I?m not being sarcastic). I just think that the odds of Jaina winning are much higher that what you might think.