KYP VS. JAINA

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Durron001, Oct 19, 2001.

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  1. Maverick_Crong Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2001
    Okay for one Thing...Kyp..is full of himself and would proboly play with Jaina until it is too late.

    Number 2 is that Jaina is a skywalker, a powerful user in the force, she would proboly look for other ways to defeat him other then by the force or lightsaber (since she is a solo..related to Leia and han luck would also be a big time thing)

    Jaina...is also..hot so I would think she would win because of her looks erm
  2. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    Ok, JediJSolo, define "Overbearing manner" for me and I might believe you. . .

    Jae Angel
  3. Solusar22 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2001
    There is insufficient evidence to show that ancestry determines force strength. Anakin Skywalker got no power from Shmi. Luke and Leia got no power from Amidala. Anakin, Jacen, and Jaina did not get any power from Han. Kyp's parents couldn't have been strong Jedi or else they would have been purged. Kyp threw Luke way back when he measured Kyp's potential. Kyp is way stronger
  4. Durron001 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2001
    star 1
  5. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    Overbear:
    1 : to bring down by superior weight or force : OVERWHELM
    2 a : to domineer over b : to surpass in importance or cogency : OUTWEIGH

    Manner: a characteristic or customary mode of acting

    Through his actions, Darth Maul demonstrated to me that he believed himself superior to the Jedi he was fighting against. Therefore, I believe he demonstrated his arrogance.

    P.S. this web sight is very helpful when debating terms: Merriam-Webster Online...
  6. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    ?Kyp threw Luke way back when he measured Kyp's potential. Kyp is way stronger?

    Okay, did I or did I not explain how that test was inaccurate?
  7. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    How can you explain how a make-believe test is inaccurate? Lets not forget that we're debating fiction here! Everything is welcome to your own interpretation, but I don't think you can prove to us that a test that doesn't exist is wrong.

    Jae Angel
  8. exar-tull Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 5
    yes after kyp got all the power from Exar kun.
    edit:so after about 4 weeks of training he can defeat a jedi master with ease, for the 80-90% it was exar kun.
  9. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    ?How can you explain how a make-believe test is inaccurate? Lets not forget that we're debating fiction here!?

    There was a scene in I, Jedi where Luke does the same test to Corran. Corran, having no inborn talent for telekinesis, does not physically push Luke back at all. However, he does use his inborn talent at mind manipulation to push Luke?s mind out of his own. This demonstrates very clearly that the test is not universally accurate.

    ?Everything is welcome to your own interpretation, but I don't think you can prove to us that a test that doesn't exist is wrong.?

    I know that you can?t prove anything that has been left up to interpretation by LFL or the authors that write the books. I would even try to take credit for being among the first people on this forum to use that as an excuse to get out of a debate (although I haven?t been here for more that a year, so I can?t be sure that I could really take credit for being the first). However, if something has been directly stated in one of the books, it can be considered to be fact in that universe. The fact that the test that you are talking about works differently on different people, for reasons other than simple Jedi potential, is shown directly in one of the books. Therefor, it can be considered fact, until LFL comes out with something that directly proves otherwise.
  10. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    yes, but if you're able to be pushing anyone out of your mind for any reason then I think it's safe to say you're a strong jedi. I think that's why we even got on this topic in the first place. Corran might have done it differently, but he still demonstrated jedi potential with the test. Therefore the test worked. And for the record I take anything that they say in the books as fact, as long as I know they said it. So, thank you for telling me about that certain part of I,Jedi. I will have to check it out again. This is why I brought all my star wars novels to college today. . .

    Jae Angel
  11. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    I never said that the test didn?t work, I just said it wasn?t very accurate. How strongly a Jedi adept physically pushes someone with the Force during that test is more related to the person?s telekinetic ability than that person?s Jedi potential. I truly believe that this test is not a good judge of what a Jedi?s full potential is, and I think that that scene in I, Jedi strongly supports that claim.
  12. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    Yes, but Corran demonstrated other potentials as a result of that test. Therefore Luke was able to see that his talent was with getting into other people's minds or something like that. The test didn't have its desired effect, but it still did show something about Corran to Luke.

    Jae Angel
  13. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    and isn't this thread supposed to be about Kyp and Jaina, and not Corran and Luke? Come on people, get back on topic!!!

    Jae Angel
  14. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    what it comes down to is that that rudimentary Force-test that Luke created is merely a way of A) Determining that someone DOES have Force talent and B) A very very very crude strength test. It's basically just good for saying "Well, so and so is pretty strong, he knocked me back five feet". And to my knowledge, Luke hasn't had that test performed on him. Who's to say that he wouldn't blow the tester through a wall?

    JMA
  15. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    "There is insufficient evidence to show that ancestry determines force strength. Anakin Skywalker got no power from Shmi."

    Anakin got his power directly from the Force.

    "Luke and Leia got no power from Amidala."

    Luke and Leia got their power from Anakin.

    "Anakin, Jacen, and Jaina did not get any power from Han."

    Anakin, Jacen, and Jaina got their powers from Leia.

    "Kyp's parents couldn't have been strong Jedi or else they would have been purged."

    Perhaps they had the innate ability but were not found and trained? Of course, the heritage of Force-power doesn't always have to apply, it has to start somewhere.

    "Kyp threw Luke way back when he measured Kyp's potential. Kyp is way stronger."

    Wasn't that when Kyp was possessed by an ancient Sith Lord? Not just Kyp, then.
  16. JediJSolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2001
    star 4
    NarundiJedi: ?Yes, but Corran demonstrated other potentials as a result of that test. Therefore Luke was able to see that his talent was with getting into other people's minds or something like that. The test didn't have its desired effect, but it still did show something about Corran to Luke.?

    I never said otherwise.

    NarundiJedi: ?and isn't this thread supposed to be about Kyp and Jaina, and not Corran and Luke? Come on people, get back on topic!!!?

    Okay, this little tangent was started when someone tried to use that particular test to prove Kyp?s superior Power and full Jedi potential. I tried to show that there is sufficient proof to disprove that assumption.

    I still think that Kyp?s arrogance has a very good chance of being his fatal flaw in any battle against another Jedi with a lesser amount of arrogance.
  17. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Jedi or not, arrogance will almost always cause those who are to slip up. That's been a universal idea for many, many years. Remember the Tortoise and the Hare? The Hare was so sure he would win, he screwed around until eventually he did lose. (Sorry, I know you all know the story, I just wanted to make the relevance obvious. :D)

    Is Kyp arrogant? I would say yes. He truly seems to me to believe that he is invincible. He certainly has no qualms with picking fights whenever it suits him, no matter the effect on others. He continually causes problems between the Jedi and the NR, yet whenever Luke brings this up Kyp blows it off, essentially saying that the Jedi know better than the NR, and that they could deal with them when the time came. That's an arrogant stance. He's willing to manipulate others into doing what he wants them to do, even if he knows they would not do it without his deceiving them. That's not only arrogant, but flat-out wrong.

    I don't want to seem like I am Kyp-bashing. I don't like the guy, but I understand that people do. I like Luke, and a lot of people don't. That's life.
  18. Durron001 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2001
    star 1
    Yeah and Jaina is not arrogant..this argument is a peice of trash. Who's to say Jaina does underestimate Kyp as well? To think that Kyp would fall to Jaina in a fight because of arrogance is a disservice to his reputation. If we have to bring irrelevant pointsinto the equation that means Jaina's defence is really desperate.
  19. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    In Jedi Search Leia performed the test on Luke and he knocked her back into her chair. Who knows how far she would have been knocked back if the chair wasn't there?

    Jae Angel
  20. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    Kyp was possessed by an ancient sith lord after he began training with Luke during Dark Apprentice. Kyp threw back Luke in the end of Jedi Search. Kyp had no contact with the dark lord at that point. That is what the book says anyway.

    Jae Angel
  21. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    "Yeah and Jaina is not arrogant..this argument is a peice of trash."

    I haven't seen Jaina being presented as an especially arrogant person. As far as the argument being trash...I already said that I thought Kyp would probably win, but I also think all possibilities should be explored if we're going to discuss the topic. Kyp's arrogance could be his downfall...remember what Luke said to the Emperor. "Your overconfidence is your weakness." The same could be said of Kyp. Would it ultimately lead to his losing? Who's to say?

    "Who's to say Jaina does underestimate Kyp as well?"

    It hasn't been said anywhere that she does or doesn't, so who knows? I would think that Jaina would probably be smart enough not to, but if she did it could potentially be her downfall as well.

    "To think that Kyp would fall to Jaina in a fight because of arrogance is a disservice to his reputation."

    Which reputation? He has several, not the least of which that of being an arrogant, pompous jerk who only does whatever he happens to feel like doing at the time.

    "If we have to bring irrelevant pointsinto the equation that means Jaina's defence is really desperate."

    It's not irrelevant, it's a good point. If Kyp just slashed uselessly at Jaina, thinking he would kill her after he was finished toying with her, and Jaina suddenly struck at him and took him by surprise, then she could conceivably defeat him. It's not unheard of.
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