Lit L-Canon -- or, Taking Matters Into Our Own Hands (Final Results Announced)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    just saying but Bin Laden was a good pal of the US presidents even after the attack with his family saved by them and such.. he even provided good cover for all the excuses the US government needed for their wars and invasions into foreign countries as well as their new shiny laws for protection, gearing up for war and whatever else they made worse.

    so yes.. Bin Laden was on the governments good side, even if nobody admitted it to public ;)
  2. Starkeiller Force Ghost

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    Indeed. The reason I immediately liked it was because they essentially made Barriss into Tim McVeigh, which is very interesting. I've read a lot on the case of the Oklahoma City incident to understand how McVeigh was led from legitimate grievances with the US federal government to the most heinous of all acts, blindly killing innocents (and no, "he was a murderous loon" isn't an answer, same as it isn't for Hitler, Yezhov, the Khmer Rouge leaders currently awaiting trial, or in fact Osama bin Laden and anyone else eager to commit mass murder out of conviction and ideological rigidity -- it works fine for Genghis Khan though). Of course, McVeigh hit a civilian target, despite the fact that he based his actions on the delusion that it wasn't one; Barriss hit a military target during wartime. Take away the charges of treason and that's not even a crime. Of course, she was then forced to murder her co-conspirator in cold blood in order to save her skin, showing that "once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny".

    Again, I liked the way the whole thing was handled. It was character development for a Jedi who had barely been an extra in AotC. Filoni & Co. actually did something creative and thought-provoking with Barriss, so I don't see how I must sweat to preserve her previous fate, resolved as quickly as could be managed in two panels of the RotS comic.

    Precisely. Not in public. I see your point (although, don't forget that the bin Ladens are super-wealthy oligarchs, not religious warriors like Osama, and he has 50 brothers or something), but as far as the public is concerned, the only good Osama is Has-a-Bullet-in-the-Brain Osama. Anything goes behind closed doors, which is why I could buy the Jedi having Barriss around in the Temple where she'd meditate all day in the gardens next to Depa Billaba or something. It's the fact that she's out leading troops I just can't find any excuse for.
    Last edited by Starkeiller, Apr 5, 2013
  3. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    I like your reasoning there ;) as for her leading troops.. I guess, jedi and chancellor know of her crimes but not all clones did, just those involved in the incident. So I doubt the news spread to all the clones.. and those serving her in webstrips might be not in the loop about her previous actions. still it requires her to have had limited contact with public, like only through channels of Aayla so nobody notices the intel comes from Barris maybe, with her Padawan to redeem herself as well as to check on her status and sanity for the council. Zonder could be a Sentinnel playing undercover as a Padawan to watch on her :p he was too skilled for a shorttime padawan anyway 8)
  4. Shira_French_Cheese Jedi Grand Master

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    Is it possible to move Reversal of Fortune before the TCW episode? If so, that's what I would do, and retcon Barriss from that RotS comic panel to be a different character entirely.
  5. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    RoF depicts Order 66 and its aftermath, so that wouldn't work.

    Personally, I could totally live with the Order being willing to pardon Barriss, but the whole point of the story is that the matter is being taken out of their hands, so it's got to be Palpatine that does it. I do like the probation idea, only because Palpy knew O66 was coming up anyway--could RoF work with Aayla acting as sort of a parole officer? In a way, the fact that she's there with Barriss could actually make the story work better than if she were on her own.

    Zonder would be a problem, though.
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Apr 5, 2013
  6. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    read my above post for Zonder.. it makes sense then ;)
  7. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

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    I'm still highly in favor of it being a setup for an undercover operation, which is both easier than dealing with pardons and then padawans for a legitimately evil Barriss, and has precedent in prior Jedi operations- Obi-Wan and Vos both went undercover for various reasons.
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  8. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Only if Barriss is stupid enough to think they'd have given her a Padawan while out on parole.
  9. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    well.. it would not be the first time that happened in the orders history ;) they gave Anakin Ahsoka to be less reckless.. (yeah I know how that turned out :p) but there are others over history too.

    Could even be the rare mutual apprenticeship thing with Barris technically still a Knight and thus higher ranking yet under relearning with a fellow Padawan whose trials include to babysit Barris and learn from her as well as teach her a lesson.
  10. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Well... Maul is discovered by Savage circa 21 BBY, according to the Readers Companion, after MedStar, so it's fairly unlikely that the Ahsoka-Barriss arc took place overly late in the war. If it did take place earlier, as in, early 21 BBY, Barriss could come back under the initiative that allows for Altis' Jedi to join the war effort, which was 940 days ABG.

    That gives her time to re-integrate with the Order...
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  11. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    Honestly this seems like the smartest retcon. Which makes it the most unlikely
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  12. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

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    These two I like as well because it still keeps her crazy and wrongheaded in her decision. The first one is cool cuz it draws on KotOR and could be an indication that the PT Jedi council was heading down the wrong path to extinction if they had to whip out crazy mindwipe techniques from a thousand years ago.

    I think I like the 2nd one more, more Palpy pulling strings to shove her back into the Order, for various evil reasons but also to get her in front of a squad of clonetroopers before Order 66 as well, and to discredit the Jedi more after he proclaims himself Emperor ("One of the various reasons we destroyed the Jedi was they had a murderer commanding clones!" etc etc.) Definitely like any solution that keeps evil Barris more than redeemed / undercover operative Barris.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Apr 7, 2013
  13. Starkeiller Force Ghost

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    I've thought long and hard over this (at least longer and harder than a sane person ought to think of stupendously inconsequential Star Wars trivia), and I would support the Revan idea. It's not far-fetched to accept that the Jedi would try on Barriss the same thing they had tried on Revan the Butcher, who attempted to conquer the known galaxy, had all sorts of high-and-mighty politicians assassinated, and is probably blamed for billions of deaths by the common galactic citizenry. As long as Barriss is mind-wiped, I'm happy. And anything that makes the PT Jedi more self-righteous and disgustingly manipulative makes me even happier. There might even be a story there with the clones under Barriss's command planning to kill her before Order 66 came into effect. Of course, it goes without saying that, as CeiranHarmony proposed, Zonder would have to be more of a parole officer than a real Padawan if this theory is going to work.

    Is Depa Billaba out there leading clones into battle, having no recollection of ever having spent a few months as a guerrilla fighter on Liberi-- uh, I mean, Haruun Kal? :confused:
    Last edited by Starkeiller, Apr 8, 2013
  14. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    nope depa still is locked up inside the temple cells when O66 hit..

    I too like the midnwipe akin Revan idea.. but I feel that Barris Offee is not worth the effort of such a huge undertaking. she is no Revan, not as important to the order as say Kenobi or Skywalker would be. and the fact the council did not use that technique on others before Barris, namely Depa, speaks to me that they do not posess the ability. also the episodes made it clear that not Palpatine or the Jedi were those against Barris, but the Senate and the entire court. Public was and public needs to be convinced of that technique and her good again if we use this retcon, which is unlikely given the rising Jedi hatred the episode played up to. that is why I prefer the cleaner other retcon proposals we had with Djinn Altis, or secret parole by Palpatine or Jedi without much public knowledge. she is not in public in the webstrip. so those work better than convince the Jedi hating public of a Jedi megamindwipe on a criminal... which would make the public fear who else did the jedi mindwipe or who else could they?
  15. Starkeiller Force Ghost

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    I can buy Palpatine agreeing on a settlement along the lines of giving Barriss over to the Jedi to have her memory wiped instead of having her tried in a military court, which would lead to her execution. The Jedi Council agreed to wash their hands of Ahsoka, but after what happened, wouldn't they fight tenaciously to avoid an execution for Barriss? No one likes to have people executed and then proven innocent. Also, the Jedi would plausibly choose a recently-knighted Jedi or an apprentice as a test subject for the Revan 2.0 experiment. Perhaps, if it works, they thought they could use it on more senior Jedi with post-traumantic stress disorder (I imagine the Rambo of the Jedi Order is hitchiking somewhere out there in the Rim, one harassment at the hands of an ******* cop away from singlehandedly burning some town to the ground). But I just can't buy anything that involves Barriss, retaining knowledge of her treachery, out in the field again as if nothing happened. Secret or not, it's just not something I could see happening under any circumstances.

    The Vos-type conspiracy is also plausible, but I don't want to mess with the cartoon's intention -- Barriss Offee willingly turned against the Jedi Order, and that's that. Blaming the pasty-white bald woman with the head tattoos and the permanent snarl is what the Americans would call "racial profiling". :p
    Last edited by Starkeiller, Apr 8, 2013
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  16. sidv88 Force Ghost

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    Aug 22, 2005
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    I believe Depa was in a coma after Shatterpoint, so maybe a "Revan technique" would not have worked on her (she may still be in a coma after the mindwipe) whereas it might work on Barriss. I haven't read Reversal of Fortune (I didn't have Hyperspace which is gone now, it's never been published, and I don't know where it can be found now), but if Barriss' role was purely classified military-Jedi work, perhaps her being "Revan'ed" could be kept secret from the Senate, and a purely behind-the-scenes settlement with Palpatine to spare Barriss' life.

    Palpatine may force the Jedi's hand--execution or mindwipe for Barriss (he wants to lead the Jedi down the dark side), and the Jedi may have no other option to spare her if they want to preserve life by their code.


    I kind of support any theory that has Palpatine pulling the strings. After watching the 'Ahsoka leaves' arc, I can't help but get the feeling that this whole operation's sole aim was to deprive Anakin of his padawan, and isolate him even further from any moral anchors that may make him immune to the dark side. If Anakin sees Barriss mind-wiped rather than face Republic execution, he'll see that the Jedi are willing to hold double standards regarding their own, which will make him even more outraged in Episode 3 that Mace will just execute Palpatine when he wouldn't do the same for Barriss.
    Last edited by sidv88, Apr 8, 2013
  17. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Also, coming so close to executing an innocent Ahsoka, combined with the fact that Barriss admitted her guilt, might have soured the public's taste for so serious a punishment. That would make for a nice coda to Tarkin's part in the story--he was so close to executing a Jedi only to have the Republic get cold feet.

    Regarding RoF, how much of the clones do we see, exactly? Could they all be under Bly's (and therefore, Aayla's) command? Do we see any faces other than Bly's? Could Barriss and Zonder just have been assigned to Aayla's unit by Altiss, and not technically leading GAR clones themselves?
    CeiranHarmony likes this.
  18. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    I only accept mindwipe if it means I get to see Depa Billapa awakening from her coma in time to escape the Jedi temple and save Mace Windu from his window fall in ROTS so they together can roam the underworld again to fight back against the Empire until Vader finishes them off ;)
  19. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    ...the question is, would Mace then give her the Adi hat?
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  20. Starkeiller Force Ghost

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    No. You need a bald head to wear the hat. Everyone knows that. :p

    But what they could have done was travel to Saleucami to search the swamps for a rather badly burnt human corpse and its surviving hat.... Then Depa could shave her head and -- o_O
    Last edited by Starkeiller, Apr 8, 2013
  21. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Ooh! Barriss is wearing Adi under her hood in RoF! It was Adi all along!
  22. Starkeiller Force Ghost

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    Oh God. The immortal hats strike again.
  23. Lugija Force Ghost

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    Something to ponder: These episodes are the only time we see Barriss with her hood down. [face_thinking]
  24. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    PICTURE NOW!!!

    Depa Gallia.. I like the sound of that.. or Adi Billaba?

    hmm two bodies... three individuals.. we'd have three former Council members on the run from Vader, fighting back... now THAT is something we need. Add the ghost/imposter/posessed actor of Even Piell to it and we got 4 former Council members with proto-Whiplash on Coruscant! Epic..

    Now face them off against Boba Fett, Jedi Hunter in level 1313... with Mace as last boss fight and we are sold!

    oh those lost opportunities :_|


    Edit: Only Boba vs. Mace can come close to the awesomeness of Fett vs. Solo in Last One Standing
    Last edited by CeiranHarmony, Apr 8, 2013
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  25. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    [IMG]