Lit L-Canon -- or, Taking Matters Into Our Own Hands (Final Results Announced)

If we're seriously about to get into planetary diameters, I'm rescinding thread anarchy.

 

Well, now that you mentioned it, I'm missing the voting. It was great fun. Anarchy only realizes its potential when voluntary organization arises out of it.

 

Okay, okay... no more planetary diameters... let's try a better topic:

Super Star Destroyers and lengths. Discuss.

 

Agreed. Palpy runs the show by trying to get the council to betray their principles by going with the Revan-style mindwipe (and Tarkin is the immediate threat just on the leash ready to bite), they go along with it by convincing themselves it was the right thing to do, Palpy distracts Tarkin with something shiny. Hell, what was Tarkin doing during Order 66? Maybe he let Tarkin personally lead the clones that killed Barris!

 

On that note, I'll bring up something that I brought up to Filoni at the recent Celebration:

The Clone Wars ships, especially the Confederacy ships, were detailed greatly in the Incredible Cross Sections, which in turn were supposed to be based on information straight from the movies. And yet, with the Animated Series, a bunch of these ships were completely different! Filoni stated that as far as he was aware, everything was the same... but the CW material says differently. So, what gives?
(That's also where it came up that Lucas had specifically requested the TF battleships never show up again in the series, and Filoni half-jokingly said that if they did a Special Edition of ROTS that Lucas would pull them from the Battle of Coruscant).

 

TF battleships are like Wookiee Jedi. They'll be back.

 

A good one for this thread could be Grievous' past. We have two wildly different versions at the moment.

There's the Visionaries' and Peña version, where he's saved by the CIS after being "shot down". And then there's the TCW one, where he modified himself to become more like a Jedi.

And if we really want to get into it, we could try to figure out the personality changes which he seems to experience randomly.

 

I was thinking about the same thing just now. You beat me to it.

I definitely prefer the G-Canon version, but it'd be nice if the Visionaries story were preserved in some way. If for nothing else, it deserves it for the art, which is stunning. I mean, if the Skakoan vision quest in Wat Tambor and the Quest for the Sacred Eye of the Albino Cyclops is canon, The Eyes of Revolution definitely deserves to be saved from the Infinities pit....

 

Well... one of the new Fact Files is going to cover Grievous.

Oh, and the first one? Felucia. You may want to look at the issue - it's free online on their website.

 

Filoni himself said that there's still room for the Visionaries story to occur, so really, Grievous just likes to think he volunteered when he agreed to NOT let himself die in the tank while talking with San Hill.

And what we saw in the comics were just his dreams, not so much literal events.

 

All so-called "Super Star Destroyers" are actually ~500 meters long. The few rooms we saw in the movies--the meditation chamber, the hologram room, the bridge, and the hangar--that's actually ALL there is to them. That, an engine, and a massive bank of holoprojectors. They project a holographic image to conceal an entire fleet inside, and that image can be however big it needs to be. Hence the confusion over the "actual" length.

The Executor seen crashing into the Death Star II was the actual core ship, but since it was only 500 meters long, any measurements of the Death Star relative to it need to be scaled down accordingly.

 

I second this. I've always just assumed that Hal was grown in Jedi Trial, or close enough. There are a whole slew of issues with Interlude at Darkknell as well, and I think it would be good to look at as the only Halcyon material between the established blocks in the Old Republic and New Republic timelines.

 

The source I've seen for the 4900 km diameter is The Essential Atlas.

Wookieepedia, however, credits Star Wars: Empire at War: Prima Official Game Guide as the source for the figure.

The source I've seen analysing Saxton's computations, and refuting them (and demonstrating that you don't actually need to know Endor's size to estimate the DS2's size)

http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWdeathstarsizes.html
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWdeathstarsizes-2.html

Now, it must be said that this person has received extremely fierce criticism from Stardestroyer.net for his arguments- but I thought that, at least in this case, a fair point was being made.

Interesting note- apparently superdense planets actually exist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOI-55.01

so a planet like Iego- a mere 2730 km in diameter, yet with a breathable atmosphere- isn't that far-fetched after all.

 

The most convincing argument against the 900 km figure is the Falcon's escape. Yes, Lando would have to be able to escape quickly with an explosion behind him. But it seems ludicrous to me that he would have escaped in the first place, because explosions expand very fast, no? There's no reason the escape couldn't have taken 20 minutes, if not for a growing fireball chasing the ship. So, to calculate this I guess we need to know how fast exploding hypermatter travels.

The other arguments actually make me lean towards Saxton. The article you linked to chose to disregarded a great many issues Saxton ran with.

--

OK, so, allow me to present what has been presented thus far:

*The Horn family debacle.
*How did they make half a Death Star in a month?
*How did Grievous become cyborgified?
*Confederate battleship inconsistencies in the cartoon.

And, if I understood CeiranHarmony's post correctly:​

*Are the Celestials actual stars?

 

I'll just leave this here: .

I think we should pick these one at a time, currently this thread can't decide anything. We all love voting, so if I number the current ideas we can vote on what to discuss next.

1) The Horn family debacle.
I have no idea, I haven't read the sources.
2) How did they make half a Death Star in a month?
I like the Lemelisk worldcraft idea, and as long as the numbers stay out of this we can discuss this.
3) How did Grievous become cyborgified?
As long as the original backstory happened I don't care how the new elements are incorporated. Still interesting.
4) Confederate battleship inconsistencies in the cartoon.
I'm not a fleet junkie, but if someone can toss together a theory based on the various shipwrights' occupations during the war we could discuss it
5) Are the Celestials actual stars?
I think we should let Celestials be mysterious. I don't want L-Canon to determine that they hatched from Daiman's blue eye.
6) Let's just throw a die/start from 1, this bureaucracy just slows everything down

1, 3 and 4 are easiest to talk about now, we don't know if Star Wood will have more info for 2 later.

 

Same could probably be said of Saxton choosing to disregard evidence (such as the RoTJ novel) of a smaller DS2 relative to the DS1.

Both seem to view the notion of a small Forest Moon as unfeasible- it's the size ratio of Forest Moon to DS2 that they disagree on, not the size of the Forest Moon itself.

I could see the Lemelisk Worldcraft idea as working whatever size they eventually decide the DS2 and Forest Moon are- so I'm mostly OK with that.

 

I'll have to ponder the Death Star issue. You got me thinking.... The theme song from Revenge of the Nerds will be playing in the background as the wheels turn in my brain.

__

OK....

1)

I have no idea, I haven't read the sources ​

2)

Death Star II = refitted Lemelisk worldcraft​

3)

Grievous was already extensively cyborgified at the time of the shuttle crash. Note the panel where the escape pod is launched -- it isn't at all damaged. How did he lose his arms and legs when the escape pod escaped unscratched (which I guess is why it's called an escape pod )? Well, he had already lost the arms and legs (plus a lot of money, obviously) to surgery in an effort to acquire Jedi-like abilities. All the shuttle crash did was burn him badly from the heat. And why did the Separatists do it? Perhaps they had already approached him and he had flipped them off. It certainly wasn't planned so that he could be made into a cyborg. That doesn't mean that Sidious did not use Grievous as a lab rat for new cybernetic technology.​

4)

Someone please outline the issue, I have no understanding as of now.​

5)

I don't know. I'll reread Stapledon's Star Maker and get back to you. ​

But I guess we should do a proper vote, one by one.

What say you?

 

From Daiman's blue eye? His blue eye?! But the great Waru came from his golden eye!! That means the gold eye is the source of all goodness! To claim the Celestials emerged from the blue eye of darkness...

Wash your mouth out and repent for insinuating that Waru emerged from the demon eye!

 

But which eye did the Tholothian symbionts emerge from?

 

Actually, the Solo family also has its own private mess. Han apparently has no less than two Solo grandfathers, one of which (Dalla Solo) was born only 23 years before him... That's rather embarrassing.

 

I think we should flat out try to explain Death Star III. Maw facility prototype? So the one in the Maw was the prototype for the prototype? Or DS3 didn't have a superlazer? (does anyone remember on the pre-Star Tours revamp if the Death Star actually fired? I think it did. My childhood memories of the ride are hazy.)

 

Han's parentage is dubious. Dalla's family are pretenders to the Corellian throne; Han is most likely (because of the age issue) not descended from him but from Den Solo, and the Solo Trilogy family tree is correct, not the Courtship of Princess Leia one (which is presented as dubious in the novel itself). Since the bearer of the Solo name could claim the throne, it would seem that the dregs of Corellian society are full of people who decided it'd be a nice idea to become Solos.

 

That would be a solution, but Han's behavior in The Courtship of Princess Leia shows that he actually acknowledges his descending of Dalla. It wouldn't be a problem if Den Solo and Dalla Solo could be the same man; after all, Den Solo was kidnapped by pirates when he was a boy, and Dalla is a pirate. The Stockholm Syndrom caused him to follow the path of his kidnappers. The only real problem is the zanny dating, which seems to be a problem with Corellians in general.

 

I don't see why we have to do something as complicated as that when Dalla's claim is so thin. Han would obviously prefer to say he's descended from a pirate (and think of it in the context of that novel, where he's trying to prove he's a scroundrel, not a blueblood), but his grandfather can't bloody well be barely older than he is!